TMI (Top Mount Intercooler) on a KA-T

[Zemus]

Would a top mount intercooler be a bad idea for KAT setup? I know it might sound stupid, but i was just thinking.

Also

What are the upsides and down sides to TMI FMI and SMI

[Dousan_PG]

some basics:

tmic:
good: airflow to radiator is great, shorter IC piping, bling factor
bad: custom setup $$, intercooler sizing might be problem, depending on setup

famous TMIC: Koguchi's D1 car


fmic:
good: airflow direct to intercooler (no rerouting necessary), cheapest aftermarket setup. can use large intercooler
bad: radiator loses some of that airflow

smic:
good: good for everything but the size of intercooler
bad: size/possible routing of air

[Zemus]

It wont be to bad, cuz i get this custom **** for cheap, real cheap, and im hopfully going to be running a 200HP RWHP is my goal, i dont need any more than that. So what kind would be good? Any special brand

Originally posted by dousan36
some basics:

tmic:
good: airflow to radiator is great, shorter IC piping, bling factor
bad: custom setup $$, intercooler sizing might be problem, depending on setup

famous TMIC: Koguchi's D1 car


fmic:
good: airflow direct to intercooler (no rerouting necessary), cheapest aftermarket setup. can use large intercooler
bad: radiator loses some of that airflow

smic:
good: good for everything but the size of intercooler
bad: size/possible routing of air

[nrcooled]

d00d, I thought you were going to be original and build a N/A monster (with the pistons and compression)

You have a s13 so FMIC block all of the airflow that was supposed to go the radiator. I used to run one 12" electric fan on my radiator when I had the SMIC now I have two 12" on with the FMIC and still run a little hot. Top mount seems really cool just go with a Spearco core and endtanks and get your "cheap" piping and you will be set. Just don't forget to get a new hood to get air to that badboy

[Zemus]

Originally posted by nrcooled
d00d, I thought you were going to be original and build a N/A monster (with the pistons and compression)

yea, i found out paying 2k for 200 RWHP in a NA was far to much, when i looked into it and contacted my hook ups, i can get a fully running turbo setup for around 800, which should give me 200 RWHP. and i thought, hey, i can easly get a TMIC and the piping would be not to bad, cuz i know a guy who does custom stuff. Wow im suprised im not getting flamed for this...

and nrcooled, is their anyway i could go with like a stock WRX one right away, and then just bolt on a Spearco core and endtanks later in life, cuz now im going for a cheap set up, that runs decent, i dont really have money for an expensive IC on a 800$ setup

[Integraholic]

Heat rises, that's all I'm sayin.

[AKADriver]

The WRX TMIC will only really fit on a Subaru... the outlet is in the center of one of the long sides... No way to mate that up to a KA.

For 200hp at the wheels, a sidemount would be fine... that's not much airflow. I see SR sidemount ICs go for not much cash. Since you have an '89-'90 you'll need to cut the front bumper or get a '91-'93 bumper or aftermarket for it to work though.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Integraholic
Heat rises, that's all I'm sayin.

your thinking impreza, its not like that at all.

[misnomer]

Yes, heat rises, but a little breeze has much more force than rising hot air. Proximity to the heat source is a bigger issue here, but when you're rolling down the street there should be enoug

[DoriftoSlut]

It is not a Subaru setup. It is this kind of concept. Not SCOOP needed, just a vented hood to get the air out. Air goes in front air dam, up through TMIC, and then out the vent. the low pressure outside the vent swill cause the air to get sucked up through the IC and hood.

[Integraholic]

FMIC's look cooler. If you're going for sleeper look, get the TMIC. I still think you should go for the front mount IMO.

[nrcooled]

you cost effectiveness will be lost for the simple fact of having to buy a hood that will give you the airflow you need. I say buy a SMIC from a SR guy and get piping to run to it.

SMIC worked fine for me at 205hp on my SR @ 10lbs then I started running 14lbs during the winter ::no problems meng::

[d240t2]

Corky's Rule: Beware the interheater.

(Top-mount intercooler = interheater often...where ic temp is higher than compressed air temp...and ic heats air rather than cooling).

Don't do it. Heat is a killer.

[Zemus]

I like that thing that Dorifto180sx posted, but that IC is so muc $ i bet, see im going for stock IC, not aftermarket. How bout somthing like this



I know this is a TT set up, but this idea.

[Foxcolt]

You'll find that once you start getting knee deep in a tmic project, your gonna be spending way more than you expected.

Here are some points I was thinking about while reading this.

Can't use the clutch fan anymore.

Your gonna have a heck of a time securing it.

Your also going to have to make ducts to route the air from the bumper to the ic.

in order to proper cool, your gonna have to get a pretty big core. I suspect temps can get pretty hot in there and a smaller core would heatsoak a lot easier in a hot engine bay.

lol, better hope none of your belts snap


Your best bet in my opinion for an el cheapo turbo kit is to grab yourself and starion/NPR front mount. You can find em on ebay sometimes or junkyards. Than custom fab piping and you'll be good to go.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Oni
I like that thing that Dorifto180sx posted, but that IC is so muc $ i bet, see im going for stock IC, not aftermarket. How bout somthing like this



I know this is a TT set up, but this idea.

lol, FYI that is a horrible IC design. Just plain horrible. The endtanks are great except for the middle one. Being as the air converges in the center it seems to cause a huge turbulece (unless the two IC are blocked off from each other with some type of routing plate). For that little thing I bet it's not very efficient and cools as well as a fur coat on a hot day

[christopher]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx

Look at the pics. Doesn't it look like you have to cut out of the header just to get the IC to sit low enough?? I agree this is a good idea, and would undoubtably work, but nrcooled is right, you have to buy a new hood, and that wont be cheap. Keep in mind that you then have to paint it. If your like me, you will want to paint more than just the hood. It will get pricey.

I would recomend a sidemount.

Why did this idea come about Oni?? Are you trying to build a sleeper or just be different? If you want to be different, you allready are on the right track. I don't know anyone in MN with a KA-T, and if someone here has one, it is rare. Don't worry about a TMIC if that is your biggest concern. Just get it running without any strings attached. If it is for a sleeper, then the SMIC will work just fine.

Just don't cut holes in your hood, if I see you running around this summer with holes in your hood, I will have to make fun of you.

[christopher]

For all of you debating the heat issue, how is it that the turbo SE-Rs(the old boxy ones) have top mount intercoolers and still run cool??? I have wondered this for a while. My friend Truc has one with the SR in it and he has a TMIC with no hood vents. It runs fine.

[DoriftoSlut]

TMIC are NOT cheap!!! Sleeper? Get pulled over and the cop sees a TMIC in your engine bay (Hood vent, or hood pop) you will be up a certain creek without a paddle. No way to hide it there.

Ducting? Umm sheetmetal is not hard or expensive... I would probably run ducting AND an electric fan to be safe though. (unless it is track only car like Koguchi's green one shown above).

Umm... TMIC is best when used for track with a slanted radiator and all that jazz... It would be cool for the street if you don't care about getting caught with an SR or KAT and you are proficient in custom making things.

[nrcooled]

Originally posted by christopher
For all of you debating the heat issue, how is it that the turbo SE-Rs(the old boxy ones) have top mount intercoolers and still run cool??? I have wondered this for a while. My friend Truc has one with the SR in it and he has a TMIC with no hood vents. It runs fine.

Yes it runs fine but not as efficent as possible. That's the thing why spend exta money for a custom setup that doesn't run as efficient as possible. The TMIC in the pics above seem very well setup and the FWD SR20DET all use hood scoops on the GTiR for maximum efficiency for higher outputs

Next time you are w/ you friend grab his cold pipe after some hard runs then grab the cold of a FMIC. On a hot day the cold pipe will genuinely be cold and I guarantee that the TMIC on a nonvented hood will be warm or hot to the touch.

With my SMIC the cold pipe was always warm to hot then I got the FMIC it's allways been cold

[Zemus]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
TMIC are NOT cheap!!! Sleeper? Get pulled over and the cop sees a TMIC in your engine bay (Hood vent, or hood pop) you will be up a certain creek without a paddle. No way to hide it there.

Ducting? Umm sheetmetal is not hard or expensive... I would probably run ducting AND an electric fan to be safe though. (unless it is track only car like Koguchi's green one shown above).

Umm... TMIC is best when used for track with a slanted radiator and all that jazz... It would be cool for the street if you don't care about getting caught with an SR or KAT and you are proficient in custom making things.

Cops in Minnesota dont cheap engine bays. So that is nothing to worrie about, i guess i could just go front mount, but thats so normal. Yea i could get a front mount, not to expensive, but top mount its so cool, but i guess i wouldnt pay to much.

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by nrcooled

Dorifto,
I am not doubting your "God" like drifter buddies but here in the USA it's not as easy to come by a fan shroud if you don't live in Cali. so I gave the man options on how he can possibly solve any cooling issues if he doesn't get his hands on a fan shroud. Jeez.

Hahah this "drifter buddy" happens to be a tuning "God". I am not relaying what my friends and I came up with while sitting around drinking Cherry Coke or anything like that. Yoshinori Koguchi told me (along with some other people like Dousan, JDM Rice, Sileightymania...) that using the stock fan and the shroud will keep the SR from overheating. If you consider 11 years of tuning and modding S-chassis to be speculation, well I suggest you consider what proof you need. 11 years!!! What were you doing to 240's 11 years ago? Not een noticing them on the street? Hmm..


Didn't people already tell him to go electric fans? Can't find shrouds outside cali? Does he have a telephone? Unstable-hybrids, Heavy throttle... call them up and ask. Hunt the classifieds, pay for shipping a piece of PLASTIC that weighs 4 pounds... I think that is an excuse to be lazy. But hey, I don't have a shroud for my project yet, so the 1 less shroud used could potentially be mine. I have no problem with people going electric, since I am in the "same" boat... only i know what i want to do, I'm not on the fence.

[nrcooled]

I knew who you were talking about and no I am not doubting your or any of your friends knowledge. Like I said I was just giving the man options.

Just a question:
Do you have a s13 and do your electric fans work well for you in Cali. I just put the FMIC on and just waiting for summer and getting kind of worried. It works now but it is still pretty cool out

[Dousan_PG]

dorifto180sx:

if you need a fan shroud, i can try and dig one up for you. maybe send it with those mystical a-arms i've yet to pull heh..

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by dousan36
dorifto180sx:

if you need a fan shroud, i can try and dig one up for you. maybe send it with those mystical a-arms i've yet to pull heh..

I was just going to call Wayne, but if you see one sitting by itself all lonely, then Yah, send them with those A arms, or I will send an exhaust-ripping GodziRa after you! Hehe. Thanks bro.

[Dousan_PG]

i should have looked. i was there most of saturday hahaha..ok, i will find out. have a few others i can check on too for youif no luck there. werd dawg. werd.

[JRTurbo909]

Dude, I bet it would look pretty pimp if you set it up like the pic but placed it REAL close to the hood and just cut a rectangle out of your stock hood so it exposed all the fins and stuff.... I dont know.... maybe not. Im tired.....

[Jeff240sx]

Why is there so much debate going on here? There is no hood clearance for a TMIC.. as my damn turbo is already rubbing on the heat-shielding on my hood. Also, TMICs are not efficient at all. It WILL get heat-soaked from the turbo on a KA-T (unless you mount it bottom-mount somehow), and even then, the piping before the IC will be superheated from the heat rising. We're not talking puny 200* engine heat... more like 1000* radiant heat.
It's also more expensive to do a TMIC setup, both in piping and the new hood / scoop that you'll need to install.
So.. ditch the plans on the TMIC, get an FMIC since it's the most efficient IC that isn't watercooled, and go to town.
-Jeff

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by JRTurbo909


Dude, I bet it would look pretty pimp if you set it up like the pic but placed it REAL close to the hood and just cut a rectangle out of your stock hood so it exposed all the fins and stuff.... I dont know.... maybe not. Im tired.....

Jeff, lok at koguchi's green car set up. It is pretty damn efficient when set up corectly, but it should be noted what is needed/used for it. RSMax FRP vented hood (lots of louvres, sits right over the TMIC) angled radiator, ducting (possible fans to draw air through), angled hood at the rear (spacers on the hinges) coupled with an air deflector to rid the windshield crease area of the high pressure that would negate the aerodynamics and effects of a popped hood.

Think: little spoiler thing that goes along rear edge of hood. When it is popped up, the deflector deflects air up to the middle of the windshield and it then gets carried over the roof of the car to the rear. This allows the hot gas/air from the turbo and manifold and valvecover to exit between the hood bottom and the windshield. Without the deflector, the outside air would get pushed down into the engine bay and carry the hot air towards the nose. That woud not be a horrible thing if you have a vented hood (check), but since the vents are being used for the TMIC and radiator ducting job, they are not open for that hot air now. Enter the deflector (koguchi invention) porblem solved for him.

Now that I think about it, Koguchi's front air dam is split in the middle, and I think his radiator may be angled opposite his IC. The IC's air comes directly from outside, gets ducted ONLY through the TMIC, and then out the vents. The lower deflected air gets drawn through the radiator (possible fan usage) and towards the bottom of the car (ground) and exists underneath the car.

In an amatuerly set up TMIC I can see it being counter productive, but NOT in this case. No radiator blockage, no heatsinking, added cooling (air exiting under hood and up/over windshield) and so on.... Best set up I have seen on an S-chassis (no JGTC). It reminds me of an FD3S setup that is very popular b/c of all the room they have in front of their engines.

[Jeff240sx]

Great. Some super drift guy (stupid assumption) in JDM land did it, so even though it's super expensive, and requires a lot of thought, components other than pipes and intercooler, and even a frickin invention, it's "the way to go".
Lets get a grip on reality here. This guy is doing a budget KA-T project, WHICH EVERY SINGLE PICTURE ON THIS THREAD IS OF AN SR!, and probably won't have the resources to make a TMIC.
Come on! TMICs are mainly required for rally racing so that rocks and crap don't damage the intercooler, and they all have tons of ducts. I'd imagine that drift people use TMICs for the anti road crap, and to safely bash their front ends up and not buy a new IC.
If you want to debate the merits of TMIC v. FMIC, go for it, in another thread. Also, if you want to help a guy with a KA, don't show pics of SR motors. Can we keep stuff on topic?
-Jeff