KA24DET OR SR20DET??

[240booster]

I know same old topic sorry to bring it up again but i just can't decide what the #### im goin to do with my car!!??    :-/   I love the KA and i was almost set on a KA-T but then i got to thinking about it. My engine has 80k mi. on it and i would definitely rebuild the engine before turboing it. SO I wouldn't mind sinking the $4k in it for the turbo kit but i don't think i could handle the $2-3K rebuild too  :-( Especially when i could find an almost new s15 SR20DET online for about $3k. I just don't know what to do. I guess basically Im wondering the the total cost of a rebuilt KA24DET OR an S15 SR20DET?? Plus, I was wondering what u guys do with ur KA's after u have swapped in the SR?? Plus, I was wanting to get an S15 SR if i did ... do u think i should keep the 5 speed tranny off my s14 and use it instead of the 6 that comes with it??  THANKS IN ADVANCE.

[Ni5mo180SX]

I say if your looking for max power, go for the KA. The KA and SR are both excellent motors. The KA is more reliable and stronger then the SR in my opinion. With the KA you put 3k(?) about into it for a turbo kit and your putting out about 210-235hp with an aftermarket turbo at low boost (Id say about 5psi). Now, drop 4500 into an SR swap and you have about the same HP but with a stock motor and stock turbo. So imagine what you could do to the KA with that money you save. And look at it in the long run too, what are you gonna do when its time to smog your car? You think the SR's gonna even come close to passing it? Greddy built up a project 240 (S14 with KA24DET motor) and one of my friends helped build it up. The car was putting out about 350HP to the wheels without needing any internal reinforcments. Soon after I heard Greddy sold the car to a private buyer who got even more power out of it. Their both excellent engine, but if your going for max power and you know your shit really well then you'll know the KA is the engine to use. Both excellent engines but depends on your own personal situation, plans, and finances. Remember dont follow trends or what you see in Super Street, think about why you're doing what you're doing. .

[240booster]

Smog means nothing around here in Alabama. Plus, I was really wanting to turbo my KA but just got a little scared when i got to thinking about prices and stuff. But after getting a little more informed i am feeling alot better about my KA.

[ZeroGS14]

It's all up to basically your choice...both are good motors both have advantages over the other...as far as the previous statement went that the ka is more reliable then the sr..I think I would tend to disagree purely on the fact that the sr is a turbo motor from the factory..it was designed and built for the pressure and rigers of being turbocharges...as far as the ka....it wasnt built for that..it is a natrually aspirated motor..if you turbo the ka your piston rings tend to fail in the 8+ psi area...the kit would be 4 grand and plus the work put into the ka....sure the hp is greater at lower boost on the ka because the turbo kit uses a turbo way bigger then the sr turbo...bigger the turbo the more power it makes at lower boost.  With the sr you have a motor that can handle int he 400hp range with stock internals....as far as the s15 motor goes...why spend that much when u can get a s13 motor or s14 motor way cheaper...with the more stout 5 speed tranny for much less..I know the s15 has a bigger turbo, but thats nuthing a turbo upgrade can't do for the s13 or s14 motor...well I can keep going on about this so I'll just cut it short there

[NOSfEDs12vh45dett]

Can I ask some questions.
What is a KA24DE, I know it's 2.4l in line 4, but what is origin because we don't get them, and it's me just being rather interested in this engine that I see in magazines and such, just wondering hey it never was imported or build anywhere else?
Next is SMOG, what is SMOG, is this some kind of emiisions test or something? (again it's not something we have here )
Any infomation will be most welcome, thanks the from the MAD ARSE KIWI.

[HaloZ]

it's a truck motor. i think its still in the 4 banger frontiers or datsuns, what ever virsion u get where u live. mine has the vg

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HaloZ on 10:49 am on Jan. 6, 2002
it's a truck motor. i think its still in the 4 banger frontiers or datsuns, what ever virsion u get where u live. mine has the vg</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
wasn't the KA24E in the Stanza first??? That would make it a sedan motor...... &nbsp;anyways the KA is an L and Z series descendant of sorts (considering parts are considered interchangeable in certain cases... for instance the Z turbo mani bolts onto the KA24E with only some port matching.... ). &nbsp;That's just off the top of my head though... someone tell me if i'm wrong?

as far as durability, the SR is definitely better in stock form. &nbsp;If you're digging into the internals you'd be fine with either engine. &nbsp;It all depends on the amount of power you want to get, and how you want it delivered (the KA is said to be more of brute force compared to a smooth powerband of the SR).
Just comparing both North American versions of non-turbocharged engines with aftermarket turbo systems... the SR20DE in SER's has been at over 400hp (409 to be a bit more precise) in a daily driven, track beaten car. &nbsp;The highest I've seen a KA go is 320hp.... &nbsp;
If your engine is in good condition, I wouldn't see much of a problem just getting something like the FMax stage II kit and an exhaust, pushing around 10psi of boost (maybe even a bit more), and not worrying about the internals much untill you can afford a rebuild. &nbsp;
It's up to you tho...

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from AceInHole on 11<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>8 am on Jan. 6, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HaloZ on 10:49 am on Jan. 6, 2002
it's a truck motor. i think its still in the 4 banger frontiers or datsuns, what ever virsion u get where u live. mine has the vg</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
wasn't the KA24E in the Stanza first??? That would make it a sedan motor...... anyways the KA is an L and Z series descendant of sorts (considering parts are considered interchangeable in certain cases... for instance the Z turbo mani bolts onto the KA24E with only some port matching.... ). That's just off the top of my head though... someone tell me if i'm wrong?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ummm your wrong :confused: I'll look into weather it is a &quot;decendant&quot; of the L seris motor (i never heard of a Z seris motor) but the turbo manifold off a L28ET would not go on a KA for the plain fact that the L28 is a 6 cylinder. If the 4 cylinder L engine in the 510 came with a turbo I could imagine that maybe it could be grafted on there, but they never came in turbo form.

(Edited by ca18guy at 12:11 pm on Jan. 6, 2002)

actually i am biased as #### towards the sr engine both n/a in the states cause i got one in my 99 sentra se and the det's

and the most power for a daily driven sr was 475hp in one of the past issues of scc. it was fwd s200sx se-r

to me the ka's only advantage is the torque but after that there is nothing. no high end. im not sayin with a few mods it might up it but hey i think the sr has a smoother and more proportiioned power band. plus the sr was built for a turbo in japan and its basically a race bred one of the best 4 cyl engines ever made next to a few other non nissan companies

[Ni5mo180SX]

First of all, what are you guys basing your statements on that the SR is more reliable? While at Nissan, the SR motor seemed to show up more often for thrown rods then the SR. And the main reason the KA makes more power then the SR at lower boost is because of the KA's displacement which spools the turbo a lot quicker at lower RPM. If you put the same type of turbo on a KA and SR at the same boost the KA will make more power and boost quicker because of its displacement. I agree with ZeroGs about the rings failing at around 8psi but thats a problem solved by going with a set of new aftermarket pistons. And about the KA being a truck motor, thats a really stupid argument. The heads on the KA used in trucks and the one in the car are totally different. The KA is still an excellent motor. One of the main reasons I believe the SR is so marketed &nbsp;because its a lot easier for companies to make money off of it. Its probably easier for them to ship motors here and sell them claiming things like the KAs a truck motor and has no potential, rather then R&amp;D'ing time into developing a kit for the KA and putting their name on it.

i havent seen the sr come in for thrown rods yet at my dealership. but as far as the dr20dets if you get them shipped of course people should r&amp;r them and especially replace the rod bearings cause they are prown to spinnning them. but thats due in fact to abuse. i've seen alotta 200,000 mile plus sr's still pulling stron like the day the were built compared to the ka's to me and this is my opnion not trying to start a war here after all i think this site has the least amount of idoits than other car forums. i like the sr and beleive in it more and think it is a better engine. and yes i am biased towards it. the ka is a great engine itself and ive seen its potential with the members on here that have turbo'ed it. so i am not knockin it. both are built by nissan, so both are gold in my book

[drift freaq]

Ok guys, first off If you want to discuss which Nissan 4 cylinder is better then the Ca18DET wins hands down better bore x stroke, 8 lobe camshafts vs 4 lobe camshafts and rocker setup on the SR. Higher boost potential on stock internals with the CA as well as well as more rev potential.
That said lets move over to the KA series and have a look. Yes it is a decendant from the L series via the NapsZ (8 sparkplug head variant for emissions of the L series designed in the early 80's) . Ok , the KA well the single cam head is a monster for racing . cross flow design with nice ports that can ported beyond belief. Its why all the racing efforts using 240sx's in the states run the SOHC version.
KA24DE, Ok another comprimise design by Nissan much like the SR20 was (less lobes on cam compesated for by rocker assembly, why ?? cheaper to build) . Big fall down on the KA24DE is the fact that its ports are siamised. Both on the intake and exhaust . translates to not much room for porting and increased turbulence. Now on a normally aspirated engine this is more of a problem, less of an issue with forced induction .
Ok as far as the engine being a base for a Turbo setup goes it is actually a rather good one . The pistons come stock with oil squirters on the underside. hey guys did you know thats a Turbo engine design?? Most normally aspirated engines are designed from the factory that way. Good displacement as was pointed out earlier . More displacement equals more horsepower and yes lower in the rev band and more torque. Street wise this is a very important issue. Race wise its a non issue. Most race engines are cammed to a point of no power below 3000-4000 rpm they are designed for all top end. Thats way Honda engines do well in Formula One . Honda has the race engine gig down pat, to the point that their street engines mimic race car engines. Now in my book that is a big disadvantage on the street. Ah but i digress,
So it is actually a matter of preference. If you have a new KA or low mileage one the best thing to do performance wise for the money is Turbo it. If your KA has high mileage then yes, a SR or CA swap will be more economical. mainly because to rebuild your KA its going to cost at least $1000. just for stock rebuild and more if you upgrade it for more boost i.e. J E turbo pistons will cost you $750 alone. Add that to the cost of seting up a turbo for it. An SR or CA swap will be the price of the Turbo setup and ready to go .

So there you have it . you make the decision.
And oh yeah for mad kiwi &nbsp;smog is slang for pollution and in references here is talking about having to get your car tested for tailpipe pollution emissions as well as possible visual inspection in some states like California.

peaceout , dpro

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from drift freaq on 2<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3 pm on Jan. 6, 2002
Ok guys, first off If you want to discuss which Nissan 4 cylinder is better then the Ca18DET wins hands down better bore x stroke, 8 lobe camshafts vs 4 lobe camshafts and rocker setup on the SR. Higher boost potential on stock internals with the CA as well as well as more rev potential.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
My new best friend <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I would have said it but I talk to much about the CA. I'll just sit back and hope this turns into a nice SR vs. CA vs. FJ vs. RB thread <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[drift freaq]

oh yeah , my bad I did leave out the FJ which is right up there with the CA except being older and not having any variations of its basic design(read CA16 in Pulsar NX SE) here in states make it rather expensive to maintain . Other than that the FJ20 was one awesome engine.

[crazycuban]

just in response to someone's post b4 about max power with the sr vs. the ka, theoretically the ka may be able to handle more power (iron block), but in the real world the ka hasnt made as much power as the sr. &nbsp;700 or 800hp ka? &nbsp;haven't seen one yet...unless that duy guy made that much...
on the other hand, why would u want that much power on any street driven 4-cyl motor? &nbsp;who cares about max power...it all just depends on how u drive ur car: whether u like a low end monster or a high end screamer. &nbsp;i personally like the screamer, u may like the monster. &nbsp;even as far as price goes, if u want anything over 3 or 400, u'll have to upgrade either motor. &nbsp;i think 350 is the limit on sr internals, and its similar for the ka.

i think it all depends on everyones pref.

i like the in depth post by drift freaq. very informative <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

and i agree with crazycuban. i just want a regular sr not much power but i want my car to handle like it had glue on its tires. then i wanna be able to control it.

[crazycuban]

speaking of the fj, no one ever talks about it here...has anyone dropped the et into an s13 or s14 in the states? &nbsp;those are BAD ASS motors...

[240booster]

Thanks drift freaq for the post and for the prices very informative ... lol that's mainly y i started this thread i didn't want it to be an SR vs. KA debate i just wanted to kinda get some prices cause that's what was scaring me. I think im almost set in my decision to stick with the KA now just gotta start planning. :-P

[NOSfEDs12vh45dett]

Here In the Land of really bored people NZ. &nbsp;The list is of the most interesting horsepower figures for the Silvia street driven range.

CA18DET - 530hp @ 6700rpm S13, 274km\h max speed*
SR20DET - 704hp @ 7100rpm S14, 240km\h Governed*
FJ20DET - 550hp @ 5900rpm S12, 257Km\h Max speed*
RB25DET - 490hp @6700rpm S13, 200Km\h Max speed*
*Lossed Licences. &nbsp;
all are just sitting in the garages at the moment.
The funny thing is none of the cars were ever put on the drag 1/4 mile. &nbsp;They are Drift cars all of them.

[Sway500]

In my opinion I would say go with the SR20DET because I feel it has more potential because the stock internals can go to 430HP. You can get a front clip from Unstable and run that until you can get more money and you can get a boost controller,FMIC,ECU, and a fuel pump and get up to 250+hp. I would say that is cheaper in the long run than putting a turbo kit on the KA24DE. If you add it all up including your stuff for your rebuild I bet it would be more than the SR and plus you would probably get more out of the SR than the KA with the same amount of money. If you want any extra info on the SR20DET I would suggest you ask SlideSquadMark
his website is
www.davescholz.com

[niseslut]

ok, this is what i've made of what everyone's said, correct me if I'm wrong:

The CA18DET has the highest boost potential, but if you had high boost on the CA then had a smaller boost on the KA they would make the same power because of the displacement different? &nbsp;do CAs pull as hard off the line as KAs? &nbsp;but in the end the ca would pull away from the KA. &nbsp; CA motor would have most power in high end, and the SR is sandwiched between the two in terms of power on stock potential. &nbsp;

would the ca be able to pass emissions since it USED to be sold in the US?

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 12:10 pm on Jan. 6, 2002
Ummm your wrong :confused: I'll look into weather it is a &quot;decendant&quot; of the L seris motor (i never heard of a Z seris motor) but the turbo manifold off a L28ET would not go on a KA for the plain fact that the L28 is a 6 cylinder. If the 4 cylinder L engine in the 510 came with a turbo I could imagine that maybe it could be grafted on there, but they never came in turbo form.

(Edited by ca18guy at 12:11 pm on Jan. 6, 2002)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I think it was a Z18ET... forgot what car it came in... but I've heard the mani's can be imported from Japan and Australia. &nbsp;I forgot what it shared with the L series or even why it was.... I do remember that 240zx clutches can be used on the KA though... and something about using the KA crank as a stroker crank on one of the L blocks?? (probably the only 4 cyl L)....

[cpuls]

I've had the same quandry and I decided to go with a KA turbo setup. I'm rebuilding the internals to go for about 350 to 400 hp. It will be my daily driver and on weekends I will take it road racing - which I've already been quite competive in using my non-turbo 240. I've got pictures of the components I've gotten so far up on a website - I'll add more pictures as the build-up continues. Check it out:

http://home.austin.rr.com/puls/pages/240sx.htm

[DjBaMBaM]

I'd hoenstly stick with the sr20det only because it is the original motor thatw as intended for the silvia. Don't you think that Nissan did all this thinkign for you gusy already? Why ponder it now when we all know what was truly meant to be put into the heart of this beast...the sr20det...

[rubbersidedown]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6:42 am on Jan. 14, 2002
I'd hoenstly stick with the sr20det only because it is the original motor thatw as intended for the silvia. Don't you think that Nissan did all this thinkign for you gusy already? Why ponder it now when we all know what was truly meant to be put into the heart of this beast...the sr20det...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You have a point.. kind of.. but i feel that the motivation behind most engine swaps isn't to put in an engine that was meant to be in the car, its to put in your ideal engine that &nbsp;fits you the best.. and creates a whole lot of power :-) just my 2 cents.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6:42 am on Jan. 14, 2002
I'd hoenstly stick with the sr20det only because it is the original motor thatw as intended for the silvia. Don't you think that Nissan did all this thinkign for you gusy already? Why ponder it now when we all know what was truly meant to be put into the heart of this beast...the sr20det...
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ummm the ca18det was in the silvia before the SR. Should everyone get the CA because it was first :confused: <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[thewholefnshow]

touche!

I know there are a lot of people who love that CA, and it is a great engine with a lot of potential. But I am just a mark for the sr... I know that a lot of people say that the new ka (95 and up) does not have the bottom to handle serious boost... I had heard it, then the latest super street talks about it... then I looked some more and found that boost results with the KA seem to be very sketchy. Some guys blow there engines and 7 psi, then there are guys running 15 ON THE SAME TURBO KIT... so whatever. But the sr is known as one of the smoothest engines on earth period... and with some of these engines running like 1000hp... not stock internals, but nonetheless... I would like to see a CA do that (it probably can, just never seen it, and it would be a riot cause you can probably make it rev to like 9.5k) and there are not part built period to make the KA do that...
To me it all comes down to this, if you are building what you want to be a SILVIA, put in an sr20... but that's just me... you really can't go wrong they are all great engine compared to a lot of whats out there.

[ca18guy]

I agree that the KA is a &quot;sketchy&quot; engine when it comes to turbo's. I believe thats in part on how alot of the cars recieving turbo's now are used, so they come from different backgrounds of care that they have recieved. &nbsp;For a street purpose engine (not 1000 HP drag engines) The choice of CA or SR is completely up to prefrence, they both will have similar end results. I was just remarking to the guy that said that the silvia was &quot;designed&quot; for the SR. The S chassis was'nt designed for any engine in particular and when it was designed the SR did'nt exist yet. &nbsp;As for what Super Street say's, NEVER take an opinion from a magazine. &nbsp;The tech articles the pics there all fine, but opinion and guess's by them are exactly that, opinions and guess's. If they tested a built CA compared to other silvia's and where blown away and were singing the praises of the CA then you would see a HUGE increase of attention on the CA, and that is just dumb. &nbsp;To many people are spoon feed by these magazines (not saying that directly to you, but to everyone)

[thewholefnshow]

Everybody has to learn somewhere... I dunno about most people but Super Street especially is to be taken with a grain of salt, they are a biased group of individuals... but I do like to use them as a 'hey look at that I think I will go look at 35 other sources on that subject'... SCC is a little better... but it is tough all around. And as for forums like this, you get ppl like me who are very opinionated, even though I like to stay open and always try to voice why I dislike things (read the v8 engine swap thing... I got some stink for that one) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>... And I dunno why the ca is so unpopular... i'll admit I know about .5 what I know about the sr...

[Tuck&Poke]

you cant say an engine is better just because this tuner got 800hp and this tuner only got 400hp cause thats bullshit. &nbsp;the reason its so hard to get high hp from a ka is just because they dont make a lot of parts for it. &nbsp;they make more for the sr. &nbsp;in the end no matter what the ka would win because of its displacement advantage. &nbsp;&quot;theres no replacement for displacement&quot; i dont care if you have 7 turbos and 6 superchargers in the end the 8.0 liter v10 will beat the 2.0 liter four banger... ill finish this later i gotta go