The Sr20/Sr22vet thread

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by Yellow4g63

Maybe you can help me with this question. What valve springs do you run with the P11 head for turbo? 115? or 138? I remember a few years ago Mazworxs warned about using the 138's because they were showing abnormal wear on the cams? I just don't want to spit a shim out if I bounce off the limiter @9k with N1 cams.

I was actually having this same exact dilemma, called Supertech & spoke to them about the use for the car. basically if it's a road race / drift car they recommended the 115 spring kit for the N1 cams. he said the 138 is for drag cars only.

[LuckyX2]

Don't get the stiffest Supertechs, you will destroy shims.

Source: The destroyed shim 1ft away from me on my desk.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by bardabe

I was actually having this same exact dilemma, called Supertech & spoke to them about the use for the car. basically if it's a road race / drift car they recommended the 115 spring kit for the N1 cams. he said the 138 is for drag cars only.

Oh the irony behind Supertechs recommendation as the N1 is the most mild cams (in terms of ramps angles and valve train stress) of all the VE cams........

The P11 guys have revved the N1 cams (not saying power is made out there) to 8500+RPM no problem on stock valvetrain with zero valve float.

[rbs14kouki]

Originally Posted by Yellow4g63

Has he ever spit a shim out?

Nope . Broke a chain once and cracked a main cap on the engin before going billet main . Thats about it

[Kaisen]

Is anyone here on a Borgwarner EFR7670 twin scroll? How much boost can the engine manage? Also, what springs should I put in the Tial MV-S if I am going for 1.3 bar? Do I put 1.3 bar springs in it?


Thanks in advance!

[600supersport]

Without almost any details about your setup, I'm guessing you don't have one quite yet so I'll just say that the motor can easily hold 1.3 bar from a EFR7670...or at least mine and everyone else's in here can which really doesn't mean anything.

[Kaisen]

Originally Posted by 600supersport

Without almost any details about your setup, I'm guessing you don't have one quite yet so I'll just say that the motor can easily hold 1.3 bar from a EFR7670...or at least mine and everyone else's in here can which really doesn't mean anything.

I'm running ID 725 injectors, Walbro 255 fuel pump, Spool conrods, CP 86x 9.0:1 pistons, 93lb supertech valvetrain set, Tomei HG, stock P11 cams.

Would be happy to put, say, 450hp to 500hp

Currently running on stock turbo at the moment, looking to upgrade to a 7670, hence I'm asking around. Thank you for your time!

[600supersport]

Yeah, then just depending on how high the dyno you use reads, you should be able to make between 450-500. As for the boost control strategy, I guess it depends on how simple or complex you want to be, but if you put a 1.3bar spring in, you're keeping things simple as long as the WG is plumbed effectively.

[Hyaboosta]

I've been keeping an eye on the build threads and this one and I'm starting up my first vet build. I'm looking to make a car to have fun with on the streets as far as some racing. My question is that I'm going to sleeve the block 9:1 87mm full supertech valve train on e85 1200cc injectors. Is that power goal realistic without having to increase the stoke of the bottom end with the right turbo/manifold set up?

[TheRealSy90]

With the power you'd make at 9:1 87mm and 1200cc there's no need to sleeve the block really.


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[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

With the power you'd make at 9:1 87mm and 1200cc there's no need to sleeve the block really.


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When it comes to sleeving blocks power level is only one thing to consider, another is what the engine will be used for. For example, someone who's building a 300hp weekend toy would be fine on stock sleeves vs an engine that's being built specifically for road course racing where you see a lot more heat cycling for that I'd definitely recommend to sleeve, even if it's only for 300hp.

[Hyaboosta]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

When it comes to sleeving blocks power level is only one thing to consider, another is what the engine will be used for. For example, someone who's building a 300hp weekend toy would be fine on stock sleeves vs an engine that's being built specifically for road course racing where you see a lot more heat cycling for that I'd definitely recommend to sleeve, even if it's only for 300hp.

Well aiming in the 700 range and boring out to 87mm I have seen quite a few builds here say that they have had ovaling of cylinders. The car would be to have a little fun to drive and for the occasional drag racing. To reach that power I would have to be hitting the 35psi range more than likely and that territory has a lot of room for oops. I'm just wondering as I'm buying the parts would this be realistic without stroking the motor? I'm glad Hanz jumped in, I'm in Fort Lauderdale and would def be bringing it up to you guys to do the machine work and assembly. I'd feel much better having a shop that really knows this build inside and out do it rather than one down here.

[TheRealSy90]

Ovaling cylinders sounds like bad machining to me.


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[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Ovaling cylinders sounds like bad machining to me.


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It comes from the cylinders being thin and having lots of heat thrown at them.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by Hyaboosta

Well aiming in the 700 range and boring out to 87mm I have seen quite a few builds here say that they have had ovaling of cylinders. The car would be to have a little fun to drive and for the occasional drag racing. To reach that power I would have to be hitting the 35psi range more than likely and that territory has a lot of room for oops. I'm just wondering as I'm buying the parts would this be realistic without stroking the motor? I'm glad Hanz jumped in, I'm in Fort Lauderdale and would def be bringing it up to you guys to do the machine work and assembly. I'd feel much better having a shop that really knows this build inside and out do it rather than one down here.

If you're looking to make 700 you're looking at sleeving the block. If you want a quote shoot me an email, [email protected]

[rbs14kouki]

Originally Posted by Kaisen

Is anyone here on a Borgwarner EFR7670 twin scroll? How much boost can the engine manage? Also, what springs should I put in the Tial MV-S if I am going for 1.3 bar? Do I put 1.3 bar springs in it?


Thanks in advance!

Fullrace told me to go with a 7163 for the 450/500whp mark .... the 7670 wont be good for those number's and will spool later then a 7163 .

c's garage is running a efr7670 t3 un-devided on there 2.2vet and it look like a freaking beast ...

[candyred_240sx]

Originally Posted by Hyaboosta

Well aiming in the 700 range and boring out to 87mm I have seen quite a few builds here say that they have had ovaling of cylinders. The car would be to have a little fun to drive and for the occasional drag racing. To reach that power I would have to be hitting the 35psi range more than likely and that territory has a lot of room for oops. I'm just wondering as I'm buying the parts would this be realistic without stroking the motor? I'm glad Hanz jumped in, I'm in Fort Lauderdale and would def be bringing it up to you guys to do the machine work and assembly. I'd feel much better having a shop that really knows this build inside and out do it rather than one down here.

Definitely sleeve the block if your going for that power. Also you will need bigger injectors if you're planning to run e85... I run 1650cc fic's which are starting to max out on e70 running 32 psi on on Gtx3076r .78 twin scroll

[Hyaboosta]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

Definitely sleeve the block if your going for that power. Also you will need bigger injectors if you're planning to run e85... I run 1650cc fic's which are starting to max out on e70 running 32 psi on on Gtx3076r .78 twin scroll

Great info to know ahead of time about the injectors. I'm curious about your dyno numbers on your setup since I'm going for a really similar build as yours. Is your turbo just about maxing out already?

[TheRealSy90]

Those new stainless steel ID1700 whatever's are pretty amazing.


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[600supersport]

Have you guys at mazworx found much difference between factory sleeve 86.5mm vs 87mm bore around these 600-700whp levels?


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[Kaisen]

Originally Posted by rbs14kouki

Fullrace told me to go with a 7163 for the 450/500whp mark .... the 7670 wont be good for those number's and will spool later then a 7163 .

c's garage is running a efr7670 t3 un-devided on there 2.2vet and it look like a freaking beast ...

Do you mean that the 7670 will not be able to push out as much as the 7163? Does the 7163 comes with a twin scroll application as I've already purchased the Full Race twin scroll manifold

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Kaisen

Do you mean that the 7670 will not be able to push out as much as the 7163? Does the 7163 comes with a twin scroll application as I've already purchased the Full Race twin scroll manifold

The 7670 will be able to eeek out more peak numbers, but suffers everywhere else (unless you have a proper high comp and/or stroker/long rod engine to compensate).

The 7163 come in 0.80 twin scroll T4 housing and is good for a honest 500WHP.

[Kaisen]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

The 7670 will be able to eeek out more peak numbers, but suffers everywhere else (unless you have a proper high comp and/or stroker/long rod engine to compensate).

The 7163 come in 0.80 twin scroll T4 housing and is good for a honest 500WHP.

Thanks for the info! 7163 it shall be

[LuckyX2]

7163 owner here. P12 head with N1 cams. 404whp/338ftlbs at only 20psi and 6500rpm on a Mustang Dyno. Was blowing out spark anywhere above that. Have since put in IGN-1A coils and going back for 25-30psi/8-9k. Should pull 500whp/400ftlbs no prob and spools great with the mixed flow TiAl wheel.

[RZRSHARP_240SX]

I'm running a 7670 twin scroll on my 2.2 vvl with n1 cams. Making around 360whp on 14 psi. Need to switch out to a high boost actuator. I am liking the response so far.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by RZRSHARP_240SX

I'm running a 7670 twin scroll on my 2.2 vvl with n1 cams. Making around 360whp on 14 psi. Need to switch out to a high boost actuator. I am liking the response so far.

Nice! Have a dyno chart by any chance?? Curious to see boost onset on a 2.2 VVL with N1 cams.

From what I am seeing, I am going to forgo the P12 and go straight to N1 cams on my setup

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Nice! Have a dyno chart by any chance?? Curious to see boost onset on a 2.2 VVL with N1 cams.

From what I am seeing, I am going to forgo the P12 and go straight to N1 cams on my setup

Just keep in mind the N1s have a lot of overlap which becomes a problem with large backpressure and a 2.2 is going to generate more backpressure than a 2.0 assuming everything else is the same. I'm actually concerned a bit that the N1s are going to limit me when I shoot for 30psi. I may adjust the cams to reduce the overlap a bit.

[RZRSHARP_240SX]

Boost started around 2800 rpm. This is a p11 head. We haven't start the cam timing yet since we just want to wait till I put in the high boost actuator. I don't have the dyno chart yet since we are still not done tuning.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Just keep in mind the N1s have a lot of overlap which becomes a problem with large backpressure and a 2.2 is going to generate more backpressure than a 2.0 assuming everything else is the same. I'm actually concerned a bit that the N1s are going to limit me when I shoot for 30psi. I may adjust the cams to reduce the overlap a bit.

WHat did Coheed produce on his 6266 fwd sentra with N1?? From what I saw, they worked very well for high boost/high back pressure situations.

The only other option is...............Kelford @ $1000...............and not a whole lot of sets of 184C come up for sale much less 184Ts. And even they did, they would be $800 lol

[LuckyX2]

6266 is a larger turbo than the 7163 with a turbine that has a greater swallowing capacity which means less backpressure. Also his "high boost" was only 19psi. There's gonna be a lot more backpressure at 25-30psi.

His pressure ratio (exhaust:intake) was probably close to 1:1 where the N1s operate well since that is basically the ratio of an NA car with a good flowing exhaust. Meanwhile a 7163 at 25psi/8k+ is probably going to be a ratio of 1.5:1, maybe even 2:1 on a 2.2L.

I guess we'll find out if the N1s hold it back when I eventually get back to the dyno. My guess is the P12 cams will make the most power up top with a 7163 at 25psi+ while the N1s will make the most midrange. At ~20psi I'd guess the N1s are the best all over. I need midrange for autox and probably will only run 20-25psi when I compete anyway, so I went for the N1s.

TLDR; Once you hit the point where the backpressure overcomes the momentum of the exhaust and you see reversion, the P12s should make more power than the N1s due to less overlap.