General Update - WTF IS GOING ON Edition

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by burnsauto

I feel like a discussion is there, but I'm not sure it's one that's going to happen. Maybe having a system where a build thread would need approval from moderation team and then the creator of such a thread would be held responsible (ie, no activity after xxx amount of time), or have the thread deleted.

You know, back in the day - 2005-2008 - with a hundred posts a day, sure. But honestly what's the harm with someone making a thread - getting about 30 replies and the thread just dies? At least it's user engagement and content.

Make a new section - Show & Tell or something to just post "hey, here's my car" and let people ask about it or comment or trash on it?


That particular guy has been a member since 2012 and only has 300 posts. I'm sure he's just going to go over to the AZ Facebook group or Reddit and will get some positive validation and engagement instead of shot down like here.

That's someone that could have bee encourage to become a more regular user and poster. Gate-Keeping is only going to turn the site into abandonware with the same 6 dudes circle jerking each other.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Is this really constructive or needed given the sites situation?

https://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=680121

I mean, I get the rule - from back in 2008 when every 18 year old wanted to post up his ratchet spec Pro-Am dream turd and then never update - but this site is bleeding and dying for user interaction.

I could have just not approved the post, and the user would have maybe assumed the site was simply broken.

I did that for a good reason.

As it is, all threads in that forum require approval before they can be seen.

I want it to be clear that said forum operates in that way.

If Zilvia dies and I need to build a new forum, the build forum would be the same.

While I appreciate the notion that any activity is good, from a moderation standpoint it sucks.

[tuzzio]

Personally, I'm happy the build section is moderated in such a manner.
There are other sections of the forum that the post (in discussion) could have been applicable. Build threads are one of the very important things (to me) that makes up what separates forums from all the other car gatherings online whether it be facebook, instagram, reddit etc.

Run rampant in the off topic sections. Gate keep the builds.

[burnsauto]

I always wanted to write a piece titled "the case and argument for gatekeeping". I've thought the subject over for a long time, and my conclusion isn't one that is very popular with the general public.



Plus, circle jerk.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by burnsauto

I always wanted to write a piece titled "the case and argument for gatekeeping". I've thought the subject over for a long time, and my conclusion isn't one that is very popular with the general public.

Plus, circle jerk.

Oh I'm a huge fan of gate keeping to maintain a particular culture within a hobby and fan base. However some things become just stupid. Toxic Gate Keeping if you will.

Now a fun thing is when you have something like Video Games or Star Wars which goes hard in the paint to "break down gatekeeping" but ultimately injects a culture that is more toxic and "gate keepy" then then one it claims to have replaced.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Oh I'm a huge fan of gate keeping to maintain a particular culture within a hobby and fan base. However some things become just stupid. Toxic Gate Keeping if you will.

Now a fun thing is when you have something like Video Games or Star Wars which goes hard in the paint to "break down gatekeeping" but ultimately injects a culture that is more toxic and "gate keepy" then then one it claims to have replaced.

Funny you should mention this - I have regrets in this regard.

10+ years ago when 'drift missiles' and frequent partouts were on the rise, I debated disallowing their presence on Zilvia. It felt heavy-handed and exclusionary, both of which are positions I try to avoid. That said, the regret I have that people willfully destroyed these chassis (and still are) because of internet cool points/convenience/profit, etc still bums me out.

I don't know how much good I'd have done by implementing such a policy, but I know that not doing so has hurt the current and future owners of these cars in a way that cannot be undone.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

Funny you should mention this - I have regrets in this regard.

10+ years ago when 'drift missiles' and frequent partouts were on the rise, I debated disallowing their presence on Zilvia. It felt heavy-handed and exclusionary, both of which are positions I try to avoid. That said, the regret I have that people willfully destroyed these chassis (and still are) because of internet cool points/convenience/profit, etc still bums me out.

I don't know how much good I'd have done by implementing such a policy, but I know that not doing so has hurt the current and future owners of these cars in a way that cannot be undone.

FWIW, if you don't pay any attention to the kid acting up in the corner, they might lose interest in what they are doing and move on. I think hindsight is 50/50 and you are choosing to feel bad about it, but there's really no way to tell. If someone was looking for validation in 'ruining' these cars and you snuffed that flame before it could turn into a wildfire, then I would wager they moved on to the next popular thing at the time. No way to tell.

I am vehemently against the trends and fads of the time, and that's probably why all of my cars have been OEM (not even +) for quite some time now. I think that generating traffic while compromising values will make that old Harvey Dent quote sting a little more.

[Thursday7]

While I've never been a fan of the "missile"/"aint care" etc attitude of things, I feel that it's unfair to group that in with the heavy parting out that coexisted in the same era, roughly 2008-2014. It sucks to say, but that era of S-Chassis being at their cheapest made enjoying them its easiest (In a reasonable, constrictive way, hopefully). The plentiful partouts, while adverse in the longrun, gave us a pretty fucking sweet few years of ownership, and the scarcity of things was inevitable, albeit accelerated.

That being said, seeing partouts in 2022 of good condition chassis is mega disheartening. I find myself often disdaining the actions of OG owners exploiting the current day trends while being a previous attentdee of the glory days where I can guarantee they enjoyed their run-ins with the S-chassis the greatest.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I am vehemently against the trends and fads of the time, and that's probably why all of my cars have been OEM (not even +) for quite some time now. I think that generating traffic while compromising values will make that old Harvey Dent quote sting a little more.

For sure. My appreciation for 240s isn't everyone else's and it seems a bit off-putting for me to mandate it just because I happen to be in a position with some gravitas.

I'm the way way with regard to trends. I had a hypercolor shirt back in the day and that was the last time I ever gave a shit about what's new and cool.

Originally Posted by Thursday7

While I've never been a fan of the "missile"/"aint care" etc attitude of things, I feel that it's unfair to group that in with the heavy parting out that coexisted in the same era, roughly 2008-2014. It sucks to say, but that era of S-Chassis being at their cheapest made enjoying them its easiest (In a reasonable, constrictive way, hopefully). The plentiful partouts, while adverse in the longrun, gave us a pretty fucking sweet few years of ownership, and the scarcity of things was inevitable, albeit accelerated.

That being said, seeing partouts in 2022 of good condition chassis is mega disheartening. I find myself often disdaining the actions of OG owners exploiting the current day trends while being a previous attentdee of the glory days where I can guarantee they enjoyed their run-ins with the S-chassis the greatest.

I don't want to demonize the concept of parting a car out. It's an extremely utilitarian approach that stands to benefit a great number of people. My greatest issues are yours as well (I presume) - those done solely for profit and those done as a result of something that is fixable. The amount of cars I've seen cut up because of a fenderbender or relatively minor rust is sickening. Add those with title issues because owners were too lazy to get titles or not lose the ones they already had... argh. CrimsonRockett has probably owned more S-chassis than some dealerships ever sold, and he's parted a few of them out. He hates it every time and goes to great pains to salvage anything usable from the car so that as little as possible goes to waste and more cars can stay on the road.

[Future240]

Parting out cars makes sense. Sometimes you want to go a different direction or maybe the car had hidden damage that does not make sense to fix but parts worth a lot.

Missile cars make some bit of sense. If you are a serious drifter and you bang the car up drifting and just want to keep drifting and don't have the money to keep fixing up the car, makes sense.

Missile cars as a yolo don't care I just want to be cool by hating on my car and making it look like shit is a cancer on the community.

[AKADriver]

At this point in the history of the S-chassis though missiles no longer make sense. Find some other car at the nadir of its collector value like ours were 15 years ago, like, I dunno, a G35 or an S197 Mustang. Of course someday people will want those too and regret crashing them and parting them out. But there basically is no such thing in 2022 as an S-chassis that is safe enough to track drive and worthless enough to crumple and toss like a beer can, unless you're rich and dumb.

[Future240]

Oh that I agree. The new missile car is a Z33. Drift those. A good quality S13/14 may cost more than a decent used z33 at this point.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Future240

Oh that I agree. The new missile car is a Z33. Drift those. A good quality S13/14 may cost more than a decent used z33 at this point.

Which is really fucking disgusting honestly. Whole fan base is utterly toxic in that sense. I don't see Corvette or Boxster owners taking pride in destroying their cars.

350Z will be another classic. Hyper popular at launch, got better every year and.... Only 126k sold in the US.

Seems like a lot, but then we also had 160,721 RX7 FC and 211,738 240sx S13 sold in the US. Both are unicorns in mint condition.

Conversely, a mint C4 Corvette is practically a dime a dozen despite having been undesirable for a quarter century.

[burnsauto]

It's something that I struggle with when I meet other S chassis owners. They are all a means to an end, in some regard. But what varies is that particular end that people have in mind.

I struggle when I meet S chassis owners who car less about the car, and more what they do with it. Personally, I can't get to that point where I view the car as a tool. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that people are enjoying themselves, and we all have this common bond with these cars, but there is a mindset that I sometimes can't identify with. I have a much stronger emotional attachment. These cars stepped into a period in my life where I was really struggling with a lot, and with/without trying to sound cheesy, did kind of save me. Not everyone is going to have that same kind of a-ha moment, and I probably put too much emotional meaning behind it, but it's what makes me happy.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by burnsauto

It's something that I struggle with when I meet other S chassis owners. They are all a means to an end, in some regard. But what varies is that particular end that people have in mind.

I struggle when I meet S chassis owners who car less about the car, and more what they do with it. Personally, I can't get to that point where I view the car as a tool. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that people are enjoying themselves, and we all have this common bond with these cars, but there is a mindset that I sometimes can't identify with. I have a much stronger emotional attachment. These cars stepped into a period in my life where I was really struggling with a lot, and with/without trying to sound cheesy, did kind of save me. Not everyone is going to have that same kind of a-ha moment, and I probably put too much emotional meaning behind it, but it's what makes me happy.

It's called imbuing. I do this with every car I own and I think out of all the cars I've had, I've only been 'happy' to move on from 3 of them. My friends would tell you that I have a problem with selling cars, but it really bums me out to do so and I'm always chasing that 'forever' SChassis car that will tick all the right boxes. Probably a pipe dream.

I have the same issue, though. I enjoy having a nice-looking car but people my age or younger take that and morph it into external validation whether it be online or at your local meet spot. I can sniff it out and it just turns me off to the whole thing. People that don't think the NA, AT cars are worth a fuck trip this alarm off for me all the time. I always want a turbo car/MT but just being around the SChassis is why I still own them, regardless of aspiration or trim level. I hate it, and I love it.

[tuzzio]

I definitely bought my 240 "late" compared to most people that keep them for an extended period of time (2013) but I always laugh, because we see more skylines on the road then 240's (atleast in new england). I got half jokingly offered 30K for my coupe last summer by someone who I've known for years, and I politely declined without hesitation.

While we all laugh / cringe at the asking price of these cars, day in and day out, it does make more sense even though I don't like to admit it. Sure, people are price gouging. But some of these cars, you couldn't replicate for the dollar anymore, especially after all of the JDM parts social media pages popped up, re-selling things from overseas. I bought a set of bricks not even 5 years ago with a big letter grille for $250. Traded the bricks for my Ganadors. Both items are now $1000+ in good condition. So, I can see how the market value of the cars is rising.

5 or so years back when 350Z's were still affordable, I made a joke to my buddy about how we should just buy 10 and let them sit in storage because we never did it with 240's and should have. I regret not doing this.

On the subject of part out cars, I think we're all on the same page. I've bought a few, sold a lot of the aftermarket stuff, and then gotten rid of the chassis. But proud to say they all left my drive way in rolling, savable condition...whatever happened next, isn't on me.

[AKADriver]

I gotta wonder who is actually buying the cars at today's prices because I've never seen someone admit to it.

Everyone here has had their cars since the Clinton administration

On FB groups all I see are people buying really horrible trashed barn find cars or roasting prices of nice cars because they're idiots

Must be redditors.

[tuzzio]

Also true, nobody admits to buying these things for insane money...but it does seem like they end up selling.

[Corbic]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcV-BHCP...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Om1kron]

Originally Posted by burnsauto

It's something that I struggle with when I meet other S chassis owners. They are all a means to an end, in some regard. But what varies is that particular end that people have in mind.

I think as someone who joined the s-chassis game in 2008 after initially making my account in 2004 toying with the idea of buying an s chassis. Once I finally got one I was met with vitriol, during my time participating on these forums I got shit on a daily basis from stance kids, aero kids, bhworld worshipers, and the cool kids who were on ziptied.

look at the shell of a place that became once they all became irrelevant.

I eventually found my niche, my people and have made awesome friendships because of this car.

I struggle when I meet S chassis owners who car less about the car, and more what they do with it.

There are many people who just enjoy cars and modding them, it doesn't matter if they're quality mods, cool mods. Some people shoot for magazine features, now that magazines don't exist and people rarely read speedhunters or their competition.

having any kind of 90's-00's import has gone back to being a grassroots thing.

the fact this forum still somehow exists, we'll see how much knowledge can be shared. But also how ignorant we once were.

I met a guy the other day at this local meet, brought his s13 out, didn't talk to a single soul. Another s13 shows up, sounds modded, matte black. I go and chat him up and ask about his car. 650hp 2j under the hood. Guy is a mechanic and he was just talking about making it faster.

Had his kids with him, all were telling me about their dreams to own supra's integra type r's. In the back of my mind I'm like good luck, but encouraging to hear.

And to think people like us are the ones at the gate welcoming broke kids with dreams to own a 90's shitbucket and make it their own, in a world where you can't even get replacement oem parts.

It's hard these days for me to have a chip on my shoulder about this car.

I took the s14 out to Arizona back in 2020 with some friends and drove around town. People acted like the avengers showed up. My girlfriend didn't really see what was so significant about my car.



Every gas station we stopped at to get gas at, someone sparked up a conversation, every place we stopped the same.

10 years ago if a group of kids were around my car I would've thrown a fit and told them to fuck off. The other day I found some kids hanging out by my car and they wanted to ask me all of these questions about it with enthusiasm.

They were just so excited to see one in the wild.

I've taken these opportunities to just tell people anything they want to hear about the car to the best of my knowledge. People even get a little too technical asking me what my final drive is and what it's like having a 2 way instead of a 1.5 for street driving.

My point is, I'm past gatekeeping, because we're at a point where the price of entry is premium, the amount of support is at a premium, and the risk of the 240sx becoming a forgotten relic not worth the price of admission with so many better options available.

I have nothing but respect for anyone who chooses this path.

[burnsauto]

I agree with what you said, but just to clarify I wasn't really speaking about people who buy cheaper parts or whatever is trendy, but more to how they view and treat the car. Most of the 240 friends I have, all have that emotional side that keeps them coming back to the cars. The flip side is owners I've met who don't have any of that emotional relationship with it. I'm generalizing here (not just in this post, but the last few that I've discussed my thoughts on ownership), but I feel like when you boil down a lot of the grey areas on the spectrum, its usually just a few different categories of owners.

Here's an example that happened to me a few years ago..

I work in a bodyshop, and one day we had a painter come in to sub for our normal painter who was either sick or on vacation. We got chatting, and come to find out he's had a few s13's and currently owns an s14. The more we talk, the more I realize him and I don't see eye to eye on it. We got into it for different reasons. When I bought my first car, it was a 300 dollar car that no one wanted, long before they were popular to the level they are now (a few years before I joined Zilvia). He purchased his because it's popular, because it'll get him attention, because it'll look good for him and his business. None of these reasons are bad ones, just not the same for me. I got into it because I fell in love with Japan and their culture, and these cars have such a presence over there it sucked me in.

Recently I saw the car at a show, wrapped in vinyl, v8 swapped, built to look like a track car, but it's not. It fits his means to his end, again - nothing wrong with that. It's just something I don't identify with. For me these cars are more than the sum of their parts, to me it's what they represent that is important to me.

I know I'm waxing poetic about something a bit silly, and none of this is fact, just how I feel about things sometimes.

[Om1kron]

nah I get it.

[SupaDoopa]

I almost feel bad hoarding all the Silvias/Skylines at this point but I also don't. Went to a wake for a car guy tonight and had a young girl sit in the Skyline and she was so happy that she cried. It made me remember when I fell in love with cars. Do it for the kids.

[Future240]

I went to That Dude In Blue's Drift Event and a pink S14 with vertex kouki light literally drew a crowd of people even more than the MKIV Supra, R32 and R33 GTST that was there.

I then realized outside my own car I had not seen an S14 in at least a year or so.

[inferno s14]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

I gotta wonder who is actually buying the cars at today's prices because I've never seen someone admit to it.

Everyone here has had their cars since the Clinton administration

On FB groups all I see are people buying really horrible trashed barn find cars or roasting prices of nice cars because they're idiots

Must be redditors.

if the price for a 240 is disturbing, try buying a datsun with minor rust.
i seen a 510 coupe with minor restoration sell for $10k cash and thats a shell.
a 1200 coupe or 240z or rx3?s are also ridiculous anything RWD sub ton is going to be stupid in price. its not that the cars are sought after is the fact that most of us want supercar performance and the cheapest way to get that is something rwd and sub ton with 300 plus horsepower. now if you copping these cars for the clout or because they are pretty then fucks wrong witchu? lol get a benz or bimmer

[KA24DESOneThree]

I must be lucky- JSP Fab is right around the corner from my shop (his kouki S14 is pretty) and there are at least two other S14s and a couple of S13s in town. Mine hasn't seen the light of day, literally, since it went in my shop when I moved in 2018.

The way things are going with S-chassis, it will be cheaper for me to finish my early 911 than build a hatch the way I want to. Being management at an air-cooled restoration shop obviously makes the build less expensive, but it's still an insane comparison.

I don't even want to talk about Datsun 1200s. I'd love to do a super lightweight, period-style build but that would likely make the hatch seem inexpensive.

[SupaDoopa]

Originally Posted by Future240

I went to That Dude In Blue's Drift Event and a pink S14 with vertex kouki light literally drew a crowd of people even more than the MKIV Supra, R32 and R33 GTST that was there.

I then realized outside my own car I had not seen an S14 in at least a year or so.

I have a fully built LS3 N/A 600-ish RWHP Silvia S14a kouki with full WISEFAB/FEAL and SuperDoof. I refuse to take it out because I feel like it's a pot of gold now.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by inferno s14

if the price for a 240 is disturbing, try buying a datsun with minor rust.
i seen a 510 coupe with minor restoration sell for $10k cash and thats a shell.
a 1200 coupe or 240z or rx3?s are also ridiculous anything RWD sub ton is going to be stupid in price. its not that the cars are sought after is the fact that most of us want supercar performance and the cheapest way to get that is something rwd and sub ton with 300 plus horsepower. now if you copping these cars for the clout or because they are pretty then fucks wrong witchu? lol get a benz or bimmer

Living on the east coast, Datsuns have been unobtainium forever anyway. Honestly even in the '90s when I was a teenager and first getting into Japanese cars they just didn't exist on the road other than the occasional 620 or S30. A long list of cars like that I have literally never in my life seen on the road, only at track days/club races as trailered race cars.

There was a brief window a few years ago before JDM imports of R32s etc. took off when you could import a clean B120 Sunny truck for cheap, since they were produced into the early '90s. As soon as retail importers and the clout crowd discovered them it was all over though.

[adictd2b00st]

Good discussion fellas. I owned my fair share of s-chassis cars back in 2001-2010. I sold my last one at that time to some 16 yr old kid who immediately started telling me about all his plans to turn it into a drift car, which made me hesitant to sell, but I did anyways. About a month later I learned that he crashed it and was a total loss. Sad!

Fast forward to 201?8? I really got the itch to get another s14 and finding a clean example seemed to be getting pretty tough. I?d been away from Zilvia and the ?game? for quite some time but after about a year of searching (and countless let downs) I did acquire what I was looking for and for a reasonable price

Having kids of my own, everything always takes a lot longer, but I?ve been slowly trying to make a copy of that previous car that got wrecked. Some day I will get there! Parts are certainly a lot harder to come by than they used to be (you could literally find ANYTHING in the classifieds back then!) but it just adds to the effect of owning an s14 these days. When people do see it, it usually sparks quite a lot of conversation!

Just glad to see this place up and running again

[collegekid]

Holy smokes I'm glad I'm not the only one emotional over these cars.

It literally hurts to think that the golden era is behind us. All the cheap oem parts, aftermarket suppliers who were making crap for S chassis left and right (which seems to be dwindling from the major sources), and the amount of very knowledgeable people are also on the decline.

My first car (S14) is essentially what led me to being in engineering. I've gotten project car happy and now the laundry list is ever growing.

I always said I'd be the guy to keep my stuff forever and drive it till the wheels fall off.
Jokes on me.
There are kids leaving love letters on my cars asking to buy it. My daily needs wheel bearings.