Pilot bearing... do you need it? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Nikeboy355 · 06-18-2007, 04:39 PM

I might have made a mistake...

I just rebuilt an S14 KA and attached my '90 S13 manual tranny on it...
flywheel, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. all went on but I didn't think about the pilot bearing... I didn't even look...

The S14 KA I rebuilt was from an Auto car... my '90 S13 is a manual... I already sold the KA24E so I don't have that to look at...

To my understanding the pilot bearing pushes into the center of the crank where the flywheel goes on, right?
What does the pilot bearing do?

projectRDM · 06-18-2007, 04:49 PM

Did you remove the auto pilot converter? It's possible to jam the input shaft into it, but you would have damaged something.
The pilot bushing simply keeps the input shaft from riding against the crank and wearing on both items, especially since they change in speed with clutch engagement. You don't have to have it, but you will wear both parts a lot quicker without it.

steve shadows · 06-18-2007, 05:28 PM

its better to keep a worn out p bushing as long as its not totalled, than to run none.

ps. its a bitch to get out if your a novice on the job.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 06-18-2007, 05:39 PM

I always thought you cant attach the manual flywheel with the auto plate on? Anyways, like said, pull it out and put a pilot bearing in, will save you the hassle in the long run. I imagine the clutch will chatter alot without it.

DJ_Sunrise · 06-18-2007, 05:49 PM

Just use a slide hammer.. Got mine out without a problem..

-Bart

slow40 · 06-18-2007, 05:58 PM

the way I do it is by packing grease into the center hole where the pilotshaft rides. when you can't pack any more grease into it, insert a 6 inch long wooden dowel, the same size as the pilotshaft, into the hole and whack it with a hammer. the grease will force the bushing/bearing out. then all you have to do is wipe out the grease and install the new one.

also that removal tool helps...

jilo · 06-18-2007, 09:35 PM

that works on the nissan family, i remember trying to do this on my roomates ae86 in school, its more of a skateboard bearing in that car. huge mess and pain in the ass...

06-18-2007, 11:03 PM

i remember using a dremel to cut mine out.

then i realized its made of SHIT, and can be cutout by simply hammering it out and deforming it. i mean, the pilot bearing is made of crap, it comes out easy.

codyace · 06-19-2007, 09:41 AM

For those who don't have a puller: A simple screwdriver and hammer can work in a pinch...peen it over, and then pull it out....it's just copper.

I've also seen (maybe even on this forum) people actually threading (tapping) the bushing, making a homebrew slide hammer, and getting it out that way...

KFLS14 · 06-19-2007, 10:51 AM

The auto pilot converter is not copper/brass its BEEFY most opt to cut if you can get a hold of it with puller.I just cut it with a dremel and then it collapses eventually its a pain though.
The manual pilot bushing is easy, first time I did it I took a chisel and chipped it away collapsed.(Those rent a pullers actually work and grease trick in manual pilot bushing.)

A Spec Products · 06-19-2007, 10:55 AM

The rental pilot bearing puller usually won't fit the hole of the pilot bearing

The one I rented didn't

Ended up using a coilover wrench (smaller of the 2), then putting a 3/8 extension in the hole of the wrench and yanking

Came out no problem

Nikeboy355 · 06-19-2007, 11:07 AM

I didn't look to see if it was even in there when I attached the clutch/flywheel...

I'm wondering if that is why my car is engaged half way into gear when I let off the clutch...

Time to drop the tranny and find out... damn...

06-19-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFLS14

The auto pilot converter is not copper/brass its BEEFY most opt to cut if you can get a hold of it with puller.I just cut it with a dremel and then it collapses eventually its a pain though.
The manual pilot bushing is easy, first time I did it I took a chisel and chipped it away collapsed.(Those rent a pullers actually work and grease trick in manual pilot bushing.)

i never noticed a diff between the auto and manual one.

but, i removed the auto bushing.. still, its made of crap. comes out easy.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 06-19-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfxi

i never noticed a diff between the auto and manual one.

but, i removed the auto bushing.. still, its made of crap. comes out easy.

The auto one isnt copper thats for damn sure. I remember i use to burn 2 hrs pulling that shiet off auto SRs. I usually drill holes on opposite ends and then collapse the damn thing in with a hammer and chissel. Fucking hated them...

nka203 · 06-19-2007, 06:00 PM

i just dremeled mine out.. the puller tool didn't fit in the hole so i just started cutting that sht.. hey came out nice and easy its not like your gona use the same one again anyways lol.

JDS Performance · 06-19-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumbleBtuna

the way I do it is by packing grease into the center hole where the pilotshaft rides. when you can't pack any more grease into it, insert a 6 inch long wooden dowel, the same size as the pilotshaft, into the hole and whack it with a hammer. the grease will force the bushing/bearing out. then all you have to do is wipe out the grease and install the new one.

also that removal tool helps...

well I read this before and tried it - and whoever wrote it - I cursed them for the whole hour it took me to clean out all that grease - also it did not work!
Basiclly the only thing that worked on mine was - I took a flathead screwdriver and chizeled it out!

JDMClifford · 06-20-2007, 01:19 AM

what also works is spray freeze off onto the the sucker so it contracks, or whatever. gets smaller a little and slude it out with a file. thats what worked for me.

06-20-2007, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDS Performance

well I read this before and tried it - and whoever wrote it - I cursed them for the whole hour it took me to clean out all that grease - also it did not work!
Basiclly the only thing that worked on mine was - I took a flathead screwdriver and chizeled it out!

hahaha YEP.. the grease thing didnt work for me at all. all it did was back-fire grease into my face - it looked like i got shat on. seriously, fucked up y0.

but uhm, yeah.. the freeze technique could work good.. make it small like a penis on a cold day, should come out with ease.

slow40 · 06-20-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDS Performance

well I read this before and tried it - and whoever wrote it - I cursed them for the whole hour it took me to clean out all that grease - also it did not work!
Basiclly the only thing that worked on mine was - I took a flathead screwdriver and chizeled it out!

haha, my bad bro, copy and paste is your friend!

i read it somewhere and it SOUNDED like a good idea... still would like to try it though, my guess is you didn't pakc it good enough??

Nachtmensch · 06-20-2007, 03:26 AM

yes you NEED it!!!!!!!

i contacted Exedy when i did the exact same move. they told me, to be frank, that it will fuck your clutch up bad.

your clutch wouldnt be aligned because the input shaft isnt aligned, and in turn will damage it, your crank, and possibly your transmission. soon after hearing that, i purchased the needle bearing pilot bushing/bearing off a group buy on here, zilvia. less friction which in turn is much better than the copper bushing.

do yourself a favor and suck it up. pull that trans and install the bushing. take a 15mm deep well and drive it in. good luck!!!

chlatboy · 06-20-2007, 03:49 AM

If you went all out on rebuilding a DOHC s14 motor, why didnt you buy a new clutch for it and change the pilot bearing then? Either way, yes you do need it. When i tried using the auto pilot bearing, my gears would lock up.

JDS Performance · 06-20-2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumbleBtuna

haha, my bad bro, copy and paste is your friend!

i read it somewhere and it SOUNDED like a good idea... still would like to try it though, my guess is you didn't pakc it good enough??

Oh yes it was packed plenty - I used the alignment tool and took a hammer to it and it would just spring back and bushing wouldnt even budge.

My auto bushing was really tight - like before - I had to chizel it out.

I did another one w/ piolt bushing puller tool - and after 5 times it finnally came out - but that wont work on the 5 Speed bushing - it just keeps bending the ends and sliding back over it - Chizeling out the 5 speed bushing is the only way that has worked for me - so far.

Sir · 06-20-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Spec Products

The rental pilot bearing puller usually won't fit the hole of the pilot bearing

You have to grind the tool a little bit for it to catch.
15sec on a grinder and you're good to go.

JDS Performance · 06-20-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir

You have to grind the tool a little bit for it to catch.
15sec on a grinder and you're good to go.

I grinded mine and it still bends and slides over the bushing

06-18-2007, 04:39 PM	#1
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 45 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Pilot bearing... do you need it? I might have made a mistake... I just rebuilt an S14 KA and attached my '90 S13 manual tranny on it... flywheel, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. all went on but I didn't think about the pilot bearing... I didn't even look... The S14 KA I rebuilt was from an Auto car... my '90 S13 is a manual... I already sold the KA24E so I don't have that to look at... To my understanding the pilot bearing pushes into the center of the crank where the flywheel goes on, right? What does the pilot bearing do?

06-18-2007, 04:49 PM	#2
projectRDM Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta Age: 51 Posts: 13,812 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Did you remove the auto pilot converter? It's possible to jam the input shaft into it, but you would have damaged something. The pilot bushing simply keeps the input shaft from riding against the crank and wearing on both items, especially since they change in speed with clutch engagement. You don't have to have it, but you will wear both parts a lot quicker without it. __________________ FORMERLY R240NA Learn what's really going on and protect your assets now before they're gone forever: www.paypalsucks.com

06-18-2007, 05:28 PM	#3
steve shadows Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: LA and OC Posts: 8,202 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	its better to keep a worn out p bushing as long as its not totalled, than to run none. ps. its a bitch to get out if your a novice on the job. __________________ Like Me on FaceBook !

06-18-2007, 05:39 PM	#4
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I always thought you cant attach the manual flywheel with the auto plate on? Anyways, like said, pull it out and put a pilot bearing in, will save you the hassle in the long run. I imagine the clutch will chatter alot without it. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

06-19-2007, 09:41 AM	#9
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 40 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	For those who don't have a puller: A simple screwdriver and hammer can work in a pinch...peen it over, and then pull it out....it's just copper. I've also seen (maybe even on this forum) people actually threading (tapping) the bushing, making a homebrew slide hammer, and getting it out that way... __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

06-18-2007, 05:49 PM	#5
DJ_Sunrise Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NJ Age: 38 Posts: 1,134 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Just use a slide hammer.. Got mine out without a problem.. -Bart

06-18-2007, 05:58 PM	#6
slow40 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: TN Age: 39 Posts: 360 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the way I do it is by packing grease into the center hole where the pilotshaft rides. when you can't pack any more grease into it, insert a 6 inch long wooden dowel, the same size as the pilotshaft, into the hole and whack it with a hammer. the grease will force the bushing/bearing out. then all you have to do is wipe out the grease and install the new one. also that removal tool helps...

06-18-2007, 09:35 PM	#7
jilo Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ct Posts: 312 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	that works on the nissan family, i remember trying to do this on my roomates ae86 in school, its more of a skateboard bearing in that car. huge mess and pain in the ass...

06-18-2007, 11:03 PM	#8
ixfxi Guest Posts: n/a	i remember using a dremel to cut mine out. then i realized its made of SHIT, and can be cutout by simply hammering it out and deforming it. i mean, the pilot bearing is made of crap, it comes out easy.

06-19-2007, 10:51 AM	#10
KFLS14 Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: east coast Posts: 111 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: KFLS14 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	The auto pilot converter is not copper/brass its BEEFY most opt to cut if you can get a hold of it with puller.I just cut it with a dremel and then it collapses eventually its a pain though. The manual pilot bushing is easy, first time I did it I took a chisel and chipped it away collapsed.(Those rent a pullers actually work and grease trick in manual pilot bushing.)

06-19-2007, 10:55 AM	#11
A Spec Products Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Socal! Off 60/605 Posts: 7,256 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	The rental pilot bearing puller usually won't fit the hole of the pilot bearing The one I rented didn't Ended up using a coilover wrench (smaller of the 2), then putting a 3/8 extension in the hole of the wrench and yanking Came out no problem __________________ A SPEC PRODUCTS CORP AME Wheels, Advan, ARC, Gram Lights, Nardi, Personal, Recaro, Works Bell, Work Wheels, Volk Racing, 5Zigen, & more! 626.618.1100 x 103 / aim: aspectuan Advertiser's Specials! Read / Give Feedback! Please Rate Us!

06-19-2007, 11:07 AM	#12
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 45 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I didn't look to see if it was even in there when I attached the clutch/flywheel... I'm wondering if that is why my car is engaged half way into gear when I let off the clutch... Time to drop the tranny and find out... damn...

06-19-2007, 06:00 PM	#15
nka203 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CA Posts: 184 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	i just dremeled mine out.. the puller tool didn't fit in the hole so i just started cutting that sht.. hey came out nice and easy its not like your gona use the same one again anyways lol.

06-20-2007, 01:19 AM	#17
JDMClifford Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Cruz Posts: 376 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	what also works is spray freeze off onto the the sucker so it contracks, or whatever. gets smaller a little and slude it out with a file. thats what worked for me. __________________ Parking lot pimping

06-20-2007, 03:26 AM	#20
Nachtmensch Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dekalb, IL Age: 37 Posts: 698 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yes you NEED it!!!!!!! i contacted Exedy when i did the exact same move. they told me, to be frank, that it will fuck your clutch up bad. your clutch wouldnt be aligned because the input shaft isnt aligned, and in turn will damage it, your crank, and possibly your transmission. soon after hearing that, i purchased the needle bearing pilot bushing/bearing off a group buy on here, zilvia. less friction which in turn is much better than the copper bushing. do yourself a favor and suck it up. pull that trans and install the bushing. take a 15mm deep well and drive it in. good luck!!!

06-20-2007, 03:49 AM	#21
chlatboy Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,252 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you went all out on rebuilding a DOHC s14 motor, why didnt you buy a new clutch for it and change the pilot bearing then? Either way, yes you do need it. When i tried using the auto pilot bearing, my gears would lock up. __________________ If you dont know SEARCH!!!