painless wiring ONLY :D:D:D

[Enjin]

if I get this:

http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=268944

do I need this?



and if I get the above pictured panel, can I just wire in everything myself?

I'm still a little bit confused after spending a good amount of time on the forums and with the fsm

[JVD]

You don't need the switch panel. If you don't use it you need to wire in your factory ignition and stuff though. The panel just makes it easier. Lots of the wires from the panel will probably be eliminated because there will be duplicate wires in the harness kit(if using both in conjunction).

KEEP READING!

[g6civcx]

I'm not sure if reading the forums will help because most people do not know much about electronics.

It's pretty simple if you have an electronics background, but it can get complicated real quick if you don't.

I would do research mostly on the use of wire gauge thickness, fuses, relays, and possibly diodes. Everything else you can figure out if you thought about it for a little bit.

The main idea is just like plumbing. You want to connect the positive battery terminal through some type of fuse, through the device, and to ground.

The difficulty is knowing what you can and can't get away with regarding piggybacking circuits to save wires. When in doubt, use a separate wire with fuse.


This is custom stuff so you will not be able to get help on it. You can pay someone to do it but it'll cost a lot, and not many people know how to do basic wiring correctly.

[Enjin]

yeah I majored in engineering before switching over to premed, so I have a good idea of the basic way in which electronics work.

it is just very complicated, so I was hoping someone else did it before me so I didn't have to make it so involved, but since it is becoming so, I might as well take advantage of the opportunity to learn about it.

and yeah, it seems like there is not an overflowing wealth of knowledge on any of the 240 forums about it. :-P

[reflexdb]

Why would you possibly want a switch panel for headlights, turnsignal, etc? You already have all the needed switches for those functions....THEY CAME ON YOUR CAR.

[JVD]

Originally Posted by reflexdb

Why would you possibly want a switch panel for headlights, turnsignal, etc? You already have all the needed switches for those functions....THEY CAME ON YOUR CAR.

Please don't post in this thread, as you have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks.

[KA-T_240]

Originally Posted by JVD

Please don't post in this thread, as you have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks.

+1


We did a home made wiring harness on my buddy's FC. Used his own switches and stuff.


You could go either completely custom. Or, you could ingrate the factory stuff into a painless kit.

[racepar1]

Why are you considering this might I ask? It would be MUCH easier to remove all the un-necessary wiring from the factory harnesses if you are just trying to save weight. You'll save a bit more with this kit, but my guess is that it wouldn't be more than 10-15lbs max. I actually removed all the excess wiring from a JDM dash harness today and it only took like 3 hrs, not including removing it as it was already out of the car.

[Rayne]

Simple answer: No, the switch panel is not required.
Long answer: See any of the above posts.

Originally Posted by JVD

Please don't post in this thread, as you have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks.

It seems like he does know what he is talking about. I would suggest you read carefully before you post an assumption.

[i need tires]

Originally Posted by Rayne

Simple answer: No, the switch panel is not required.
Long answer: See any of the above posts.



It seems like he does know what he is talking about. I would suggest you read carefully before you post an assumption.

by using a painless kit and NOT using the factory switches in the car you eliminate wiring, most of which is not needed. this is the reason that comment was made to him. Painless is usually for race car purposes and painless doesnt just control headlights turn signals, it is usually used to turn off fuel pump...ecu...starter...ignition...things along those lines...

[gotta240]

Although many of the oldschool (ie:50's -70's cars) painless kits are great, it seems using one on an s chassis may be very PAINFUL!

Good luck on the task ahead.

[kawika219]

^ thats exactly what i said when i tried to figure it out. SOOOO until i do more research on electronics its gonna sit around and collect dust

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by Enjin

do I need this?

It depends on design choice. Like mentioned above, you can reuse your existing switches, like I did on mine. I did a complete custom rewiring reusing stock switches for a clean look.

Originally Posted by Enjin

and if I get the above pictured panel, can I just wire in everything myself?

Yes and no. Do you know how basic electronics work?

If you took your time and went through every circuit and convert them to a custom circuit, yes you can do it.

If your idea of wiring is pigtailing 5 wires together and taping them, then no, you cannot do it.


It can get complicated quickly if you want to eliminate the entire relay box and use universal relays. The most important thing is make sure you use fuses and wire gauge correctly so you don't have a fire or shorts.

[JVD]

Originally Posted by Rayne

It seems like he does know what he is talking about. I would suggest you read carefully before you post an assumption.

None of those switches are for headlights, signals, etc. They're for ignition, start, fuel pump, etc. It just doesn't help when people talk about something as complicated(sometimes) as wiring without any actual knowledge of it.

I'm not saying I know a ton, but posts like that just aren't helping anything regarding the topic.

PS. Listen to g6civcx. He knows what he's talking about. Haha.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by JVD

None of those switches are for headlights, signals, etc. They're for ignition, start, fuel pump, etc. It just doesn't help when people talk about something as complicated(sometimes) as wiring without any actual knowledge of it.

To be fair, you can use the switches for anything you like. Some are momentary like starter, most are on/off. I can't make out the writing in the pix but it looks like the ones that come on a standard Painless switch panel.

Originally Posted by JVD

PS. Listen to g6civcx. He knows what he's talking about. Haha.

I don't know about all that, but thanks for the vote of confidence.


Really, I can help you run just about any custom wiring you want. The problem is complexity. Even if I draw diagrams for you, you still have to think about wire gauge, routing, connections, grounds, insulations, etc. when you actually make the circuit.

Why are you doing this? If you just want to simplify, just eliminate all the components you don't want. Any wires going to these components, provided they don't piggyback off or is used by something else, can be eliminated.

[racepar1]

I've seen 3 0r 4 different people ask this with no answer, WHY are you interested in this? If it is to save weight and reduce complication on a car that is for street AND track you would be better off forgetting the painless stuff and re-doing your stock wiring. If you had a fire or something happened that destroyed your wiring then just get some used factory harnesses and re-do them. If you are building a full out racecar then use the painless stuff as it will remove a BIT more weight and the wiring will be a bit less complicated.

[blinds04]

This company is cheaper and does the same thing:


http://www.ezwiring.com/wiring_harness.html

But, yeah why do you want to rewire the car? Is your wire harness missing or damaged?

[Enjin]

when you go through a few s13's and all of them have wiring gremlins, you start to look for more options. when things just decide to turn off and on, your fuel pump decides it just wants to take a break (who can blame it really?), and your headlights may or may not come up, it just makes you want to try something new.

that, coupled with the fact I already have a daily driver, makes me want to have a little fun

I will go ahead and spread my stock harness out on the floor (it's removed) and see what I can do. hopefully I will be spared the $250 for the painless.

if I succeed in making a clean go at it, I will post some diagrams.

and yeah, I want to wire in the headlights, turn signals, and windshield wipers into the stock system. I also want full radio function. I NEEDZ IT.

[Enjin]

and the EZ wires, I have seen them, but the page just looks unprofessional, so I am wary of it. more research to come...

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by Enjin

when you go through a few s13's and all of them have wiring gremlins, you start to look for more options. when things just decide to turn off and on, your fuel pump decides it just wants to take a break (who can blame it really?), and your headlights may or may not come up, it just makes you want to try something new.

This part has me worried. If you can't diagnose your stock electrical system with an FSM, you should NOT be designing your own custom wiring.

[Enjin]

well I want a simpler design that allows me to diagnose much more quickly. function is beauty to me. I have already learned a LOOOT about the car this far, and when I am finished, I feel like the knowledge and experience gained will be useful in the future.

HONESTLY... I am just doing it for fun, and to see if I can do it.

[McRussellPants]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Why are you considering this might I ask? It would be MUCH easier to remove all the un-necessary wiring from the factory harnesses if you are just trying to save weight. You'll save a bit more with this kit, but my guess is that it wouldn't be more than 10-15lbs max. I actually removed all the excess wiring from a JDM dash harness today and it only took like 3 hrs, not including removing it as it was already out of the car.

no it isn't.

I've done it.

It totally sucks.

Painless 8 Circuit is so much easier.

Putting painless on an S-chassis is easy.

it took me a day of google and a ziptied post to figure it out.

stock wiring harness has so much useless crap for nearly all of the cars on this board, its nearly impossible to gut the front section too, it would be such a bitch.

[racepar1]

I'm converting my car to RHD harnesses which I am gutting as we speak so I will be able to give a much better review of how difficult it is in a couple of weeks. I did the dash harness this weekend and it only took me like 3 hrs to gut it (out of the car that is). I still have to shorten/lengthen the few connectors that I DO need and solder and shrink wrap some places where the factory spliced multiple wires together though. Before anyone asks I am converting to RHD harnesses because they run down the (US) passenger's side of the car rather than the driver's side. Also the silvia engine room harness doesn't have the extra relay box for the pop-ups. I got the harnesses for free so fuck it, I'll give it a shot.

[240cracker]

thats gunna be nice once its all wired up.

[McRussellPants]

Originally Posted by racepar1

I'm converting my car to RHD harnesses which I am gutting as we speak so I will be able to give a much better review of how difficult it is in a couple of weeks. I did the dash harness this weekend and it only took me like 3 hrs to gut it (out of the car that is). I still have to shorten/lengthen the few connectors that I DO need and solder and shrink wrap some places where the factory spliced multiple wires together though. Before anyone asks I am converting to RHD harnesses because they run down the (US) passenger's side of the car rather than the driver's side. Also the silvia engine room harness doesn't have the extra relay box for the pop-ups. I got the harnesses for free so fuck it, I'll give it a shot.

it totally sucks.

its easy enough until you get to under the dash.

and then wires run back and forth 5 times, go into relays which also have needed wires going to them

the wires change color, its a bitch to unpin the plugs.

I stopped 90% done, and bought painless.

[racepar1]

I didn't think the underdash part was that difficult personally. Although I must admit my brain hurt a bit when I was done! LOL!

EDIT: In the car however it would totally suck! With the harness layed out on a bench it wasn't THAT bad.

[JVD]

Originally Posted by McRussellPants

it totally sucks.

its easy enough until you get to under the dash.

and then wires run back and forth 5 times, go into relays which also have needed wires going to them

the wires change color, its a bitch to unpin the plugs.

I stopped 90% done, and bought painless.

That's exactly what I did. Started tracing wires back and forth inside the car... Said fuck it and bought Painless. I bought the big one though. 18 circuit. Still want to have everything functional. Power windows/locks, radio, all lights. I don't drive a race car.

I partly bought the kit to learn more about the car. Trust me though. 18 circuit Painless weighs WAAAAY less than a stock harness. Never weighed it because I don't care about weight at all.

Nissan uses relays for pretty much everything. Painless just uses thicker wire. Simpler, but probably wears out switches faster, right?

We'll see how it works out...

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by JVD

I partly bought the kit to learn more about the car.

If you can rewire a car, you can troubleshoot any electrical problems.

Originally Posted by JVD

Trust me though. 18 circuit Painless weighs WAAAAY less than a stock harness. Never weighed it because I don't care about weight at all.

I agree. I saved 25 by gutting my stock harness. I saved even more with my custom wiring.

Originally Posted by JVD

Nissan uses relays for pretty much everything. Painless just uses thicker wire. Simpler, but probably wears out switches faster, right?

It depends. Nissan doesn't use relays for lights (other than flasher relay). I generally don't like that much current running to the light switch (up to 15A per headlamp X 2). It makes the light switch prone to failure like so many Nissans.

Generally using a relay and allowing a switch to draw only a small amount of current to trip the relay will greatly prolong the longevity of the switch, but as long as you're pulling less than the current rating of the switch, theoretically you should be okay.

[seven.62]

[QUOTE=Enjin;1932137]when you go through a few s13's and all of them have wiring gremlins, you start to look for more options. when things just decide to turn off and on, your fuel pump decides it just wants to take a break (who can blame it really?), and your headlights may or may not come up, it just makes you want to try something new.QUOTE]

Quoted for truth.
+rep

[racepar1]

Honestly I think the JDM harness that I am going to use is much less complicated then the US one. It seems to have quite a few less relays.