Z32 turbo pistons in SR20DET - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

gottdeskrieges · 01-08-2009, 10:52 PM

Sounds good and all. But, on the 4g63 I 've seen over 600awhp on stock bottom end. I was on low 400's with my setup. Always intresting to see people doing something different and finding another alternative. Makes it easier for when you cant find something just get it from another car and work with that haha. Good Luck bro and hope everything works out for ya.

timtiminy · 01-09-2009, 12:21 AM

If i were going to sleeve the block i would just do an entire bulletproof build with forged rods and pistons, the objective here is to do this as cost effective as possible.

MadScientist · 01-09-2009, 11:08 PM

I am not the God of Z32 pistons... I have just been looking into doing this for a long time and I rarely hear any real info about it.

I will be doing this soon... The only thing I am worried about right now is selling my PE headgasket (87mm) and getting a new PE (88mm) one.

Z32 stock Pistons are 87mm... most aftermarket ones only start at 87.5mm... this is my logical choice of size anyway because finding a 89mm headgasket is just impossable... or not something I trust to use.

If your going to do piston swap on the SR20 the RNN15 GTiR pistons are great and cheep... if your planning to build it, go forged... If you planning to Bore, but keep your stock crank , go with Z32 87mm pistons.
The only real issue is finding them in sets of 4.

The local Machine shop that is highly trusted by many engine builders in this area... Said he doesn't want to sleeve the SR because its aluminum and he would have to re-align the mains... I dont think going over 1mm is going to be that bad on a stock wall, but that is my limit!

-Drew

slider2828 · 01-10-2009, 12:37 AM

I have forged from JE and they have a 86mm bore for sr's

timtiminy · 01-10-2009, 05:24 PM

okay so is it recommended to go .5mm bigger on your head gasket when you overbore? Like if i did the stock Z32 pistons at 87mm should i go with a 87mm head gasket or a 87.5mm?

MadScientist · 01-10-2009, 10:28 PM

^^^ Correct

This is from Power Enterprise website.
How to select right size of gasket:
Standard of Gasket bore vs. piston size
Piston OD + 1.0mm to 2.0mm. The most of car manufacture design the gasket size to be 1.5mm to 2.0mm larger than the piston OD
Caution:
Do not overlap the tip of gasket and champher area
(See the picture)

Compression Ratio Changes by the thickness:
Example: 86mm stroke engine with 9:1 compression ratio can be reduced to 8.6:1 by adding the head gasket thickness, approx. 0.56mm.

Use 87mm Gasket for 86mm piston and 88mm for 87mm piston.

Major Distributor for the 91mm gasket: MAZWORXl 407-281-1223 (Mark)

-Drew

timtiminy · 01-10-2009, 10:45 PM

Thanks for that info. wasnt sure about that, i figured it worked that way. Are there certain gasket manufactures that list their sized based on the cylinder bore? for instance their actual gasket diameter is 87mm but is listed as 86mm?

MadScientist · 01-10-2009, 11:39 PM

I prefer Power Enterprise because they are the best... look at thier site... their HG is like no other... I have a 87mm one and I ordered a rebuild kit... the stock HG is so nasty compaired to PE... I have seen Tomei/HKS/etc... they are good but... PE is god sauce... holds 1400hp and something retarded on boost presure.

MSRP is $230... call Kure.

-Drew

s13envy · 01-11-2009, 12:16 AM

I believe mazworx recommends Apexi HG's. Said they'd hold something like 60lbs of boost or so....Just over $200

timtiminy · 01-11-2009, 11:40 AM

Ive noticed some gasket manufactures make a 86mm gasket for the sr20det so thats why i was wondering if it is just listed as 86mm for the bore of the motor but the actual diameter of the gasket is 87mm. Anyhow i have heard that Power Enterprise Gaskets are one of the best and Apexi uses a similar design so they are comparable. Another gasket i am considering is cosworth. I have heard mixed reviews on cometic so not too sure about that, I have heard that if your block and head are freshly decked you wont have any problems but even though i will have a fresh surface on both the block and head i dont want to have to tear the motor apart again just to change the HG and have to spend money a second time.

MadScientist · 01-17-2009, 02:14 PM

OK , so I need a Torque Plate... what is the deal with finding one.

-Drew

timtiminy · 01-17-2009, 03:20 PM

High Performance Engine Builder Tooling and Harmonic Dampers: BHJ Products, +1 (510)797-6780 <-- They sell a torque plate for the sr20

MadScientist · 01-17-2009, 05:22 PM

They sell for the SR20DE... its close to a S13 SR20DET but its far far away from a S14 SR20.

-Drew

timtiminy · 01-21-2009, 12:13 PM

I knew that the S13 SR and SER SR have the same head bolt pattern but I wasnt sure about the S14... They could possibly make you a custom one. Seems like they are capable. if not have emachineshop.com make you one.

Hashiriya415 · 01-21-2009, 12:54 PM

I can bore and hone your block, PM me

timtiminy · 01-21-2009, 02:02 PM

Hashiriya415: Do you use a torque plate when you bore?

SleeperTT · 01-25-2009, 02:21 AM

Hey I was wandering some things... I had a built vg30dett. in my Z. well it took a dump and now I'm looking at a s13 to play with. The plan is a S15 Black top. Well I just want that cause of the 6 speed tranny but any ways. I have 6 cp pistons .002 over stock bore..out of my TT motor. I'm intrigued in this conversation cause i already have three eagle rods and the cp pistons. Are the rods the same, and the .002 over stock pistons, would that be a problem with boring the stock sr block to fit the pistons. I'm not familiar with the limits as far as bore for the SR.

TheRealNighthog · 01-25-2009, 12:17 PM

The problems with the VG pistons are two things. Number one, they are heavy, much heavier than the stock SR pistons by quite a bit, its obvious that these would not be well suited for high rev applications as they would put a lot of stress on the wrist pins. Secondly they use thick rings which does not help out with high RPM sealing. The pistons I am running were designed to use the thin low tension rings from the 2001-2002 Sentra SE. These are much better for high RPM sealing as I am planning to turn 9.5K with my build.

MadScientist · 01-25-2009, 02:31 PM

Stock v:s Stock - yes the Z32 piston is heavier.

Aftermarket - weight is not an issue. rings are better.

IMO... I wouldn't put stock pistons in anything I have went through the trouble of Boring/ Building.

SleeperTT -The pistons will work but you will neet to bore the SR... you dont need a S15 engine... buy an S14 SR20 and the S15 Tranny, Actually you have a VG tranny... get a Maxiworx kit. The Rods, I doubt will fit the crank, or have the correct length.

-Drew

timtiminy · 01-26-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadScientist

IMO... I wouldn't put stock pistons in anything I have went through the trouble of Boring/ Building.

This is kind of what I am struggling with, since I am overboring I am spending quite a bit of money just on machining costs and would like to save as much money as I can, which is where the idea to use the Z32 pistons came into play. I would like to know the actual weight difference between stock SR pistons and stock VG pistons. I would imagine since the VG piston is 1mm larger in diameter even if nothing else was different it would make a small difference in weight. I would just like to know if it is of any significance. The ring sealing issue that was brought up seems like a bigger issue than the weight, but when I was reading about the SR build with VG pistons in Sportcompactcar they did not mention any adverse effects in this area.

MadScientist · 01-26-2009, 05:01 PM

SR20DET
Stock
Bore: 3.386, 86mm
Stroke: 3.386
Rod Length: 5.366
Head cc: 46.5
Gasket: .036
Deck: .000

ARIAS Pistons
Bore - 3.406 / 86.5mm
Comp. - 1.260
Dome - (-15)
Compression RatioComp. - 8.5
Gram - 334

VG30DETT
Stock
Bore: 3.425, 87mm
Stroke: 3.270
Rod Length: 6.071
Head cc: 49.5
Gasket: .040
Deck: .000

ARIAS Pistons
Bore - 3.445 / 87.50
Comp. - 1.255
Dome - (-6)
Compression RatioComp. - 9.1
Gram - 360

More tech info to feed on!!

-Drew

timtiminy · 04-16-2009, 01:17 AM

talked to a guy that did this, seems to be like he had good luck and made over 500whp

timtiminy · 04-17-2009, 12:01 PM

I have heard that boring without a torque plate is and isnt a good idea... im thinking it would be better with the torque plate, but i cant find anyone in socal that bores with a torque plate for the SR20, JWT used to but they no longer offer machining services, anyone know of anyone else?

GSXRJJordan · 04-17-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtiminy

I have heard that boring without a torque plate is and isnt a good idea... im thinking it would be better with the torque plate, but i cant find anyone in socal that bores with a torque plate for the SR20, JWT used to but they no longer offer machining services, anyone know of anyone else?

Overall, it's probably not THAT big a deal for an SR... but obviously if you had a choice, you would go with the torque plate over nothing.

There's still a few shops that have a torque plate for the SR20 - of course, I see the threads in passing, and never bookmark shit, because I've never needed it done. The thread I'm thinking of had a link to a torque plate manufacturer, and it listed all the motors that used the same plate - there were a few that used the same plate.

I'd start with known SR20 builders, like Garagewerks in Palmdale, and then ask some of the more serious shops (Boso, SP Eng, etc) who they use, and get referrals to machine shops - eventually you'll find one that's got a torque plate for an SR!

timtiminy · 04-18-2009, 08:56 PM

yeah... I am just wondering the long term effects if i dont use a torque plate to bore.

01-10-2009, 12:37 AM	#34
slider2828 Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 6,040 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	I have forged from JE and they have a 86mm bore for sr's __________________ Turn and Burn!

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01-08-2009, 10:52 PM	#31
gottdeskrieges Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Alexandria, La. Posts: 148 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Sounds good and all. But, on the 4g63 I 've seen over 600awhp on stock bottom end. I was on low 400's with my setup. Always intresting to see people doing something different and finding another alternative. Makes it easier for when you cant find something just get it from another car and work with that haha. Good Luck bro and hope everything works out for ya.

01-09-2009, 12:21 AM	#32
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If i were going to sleeve the block i would just do an entire bulletproof build with forged rods and pistons, the objective here is to do this as cost effective as possible.

01-09-2009, 11:08 PM	#33
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I am not the God of Z32 pistons... I have just been looking into doing this for a long time and I rarely hear any real info about it. I will be doing this soon... The only thing I am worried about right now is selling my PE headgasket (87mm) and getting a new PE (88mm) one. Z32 stock Pistons are 87mm... most aftermarket ones only start at 87.5mm... this is my logical choice of size anyway because finding a 89mm headgasket is just impossable... or not something I trust to use. If your going to do piston swap on the SR20 the RNN15 GTiR pistons are great and cheep... if your planning to build it, go forged... If you planning to Bore, but keep your stock crank , go with Z32 87mm pistons. The only real issue is finding them in sets of 4. The local Machine shop that is highly trusted by many engine builders in this area... Said he doesn't want to sleeve the SR because its aluminum and he would have to re-align the mains... I dont think going over 1mm is going to be that bad on a stock wall, but that is my limit! -Drew

01-10-2009, 05:24 PM	#35
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	okay so is it recommended to go .5mm bigger on your head gasket when you overbore? Like if i did the stock Z32 pistons at 87mm should i go with a 87mm head gasket or a 87.5mm?

01-10-2009, 10:28 PM	#36
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	^^^ Correct This is from Power Enterprise website. How to select right size of gasket: Standard of Gasket bore vs. piston size Piston OD + 1.0mm to 2.0mm. The most of car manufacture design the gasket size to be 1.5mm to 2.0mm larger than the piston OD Caution: Do not overlap the tip of gasket and champher area (See the picture) Compression Ratio Changes by the thickness: Example: 86mm stroke engine with 9:1 compression ratio can be reduced to 8.6:1 by adding the head gasket thickness, approx. 0.56mm. Use 87mm Gasket for 86mm piston and 88mm for 87mm piston. Major Distributor for the 91mm gasket: MAZWORXl 407-281-1223 (Mark) -Drew

01-10-2009, 10:45 PM	#37
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thanks for that info. wasnt sure about that, i figured it worked that way. Are there certain gasket manufactures that list their sized based on the cylinder bore? for instance their actual gasket diameter is 87mm but is listed as 86mm?

01-10-2009, 11:39 PM	#38
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I prefer Power Enterprise because they are the best... look at thier site... their HG is like no other... I have a 87mm one and I ordered a rebuild kit... the stock HG is so nasty compaired to PE... I have seen Tomei/HKS/etc... they are good but... PE is god sauce... holds 1400hp and something retarded on boost presure. MSRP is $230... call Kure. -Drew

01-11-2009, 12:16 AM	#39
s13envy Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Shelbyville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 407 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I believe mazworx recommends Apexi HG's. Said they'd hold something like 60lbs of boost or so....Just over $200

01-11-2009, 11:40 AM	#40
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ive noticed some gasket manufactures make a 86mm gasket for the sr20det so thats why i was wondering if it is just listed as 86mm for the bore of the motor but the actual diameter of the gasket is 87mm. Anyhow i have heard that Power Enterprise Gaskets are one of the best and Apexi uses a similar design so they are comparable. Another gasket i am considering is cosworth. I have heard mixed reviews on cometic so not too sure about that, I have heard that if your block and head are freshly decked you wont have any problems but even though i will have a fresh surface on both the block and head i dont want to have to tear the motor apart again just to change the HG and have to spend money a second time.

01-17-2009, 02:14 PM	#41
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	OK , so I need a Torque Plate... what is the deal with finding one. -Drew

01-17-2009, 03:20 PM	#42
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	High Performance Engine Builder Tooling and Harmonic Dampers: BHJ Products, +1 (510)797-6780 <-- They sell a torque plate for the sr20

01-17-2009, 05:22 PM	#43
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	They sell for the SR20DE... its close to a S13 SR20DET but its far far away from a S14 SR20. -Drew

01-21-2009, 12:13 PM	#44
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I knew that the S13 SR and SER SR have the same head bolt pattern but I wasnt sure about the S14... They could possibly make you a custom one. Seems like they are capable. if not have emachineshop.com make you one.

01-21-2009, 12:54 PM	#45
Hashiriya415 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco Age: 37 Posts: 1,007 Trader Rating: (22) Feedback Score: 22 reviews	I can bore and hone your block, PM me

01-21-2009, 02:02 PM	#46
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hashiriya415: Do you use a torque plate when you bore?

01-25-2009, 02:21 AM	#47
SleeperTT Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ky Age: 41 Posts: 53 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Hey I was wandering some things... I had a built vg30dett. in my Z. well it took a dump and now I'm looking at a s13 to play with. The plan is a S15 Black top. Well I just want that cause of the 6 speed tranny but any ways. I have 6 cp pistons .002 over stock bore..out of my TT motor. I'm intrigued in this conversation cause i already have three eagle rods and the cp pistons. Are the rods the same, and the .002 over stock pistons, would that be a problem with boring the stock sr block to fit the pistons. I'm not familiar with the limits as far as bore for the SR.

01-25-2009, 12:17 PM	#48
TheRealNighthog Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Goldbar wa Age: 39 Posts: 98 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	The problems with the VG pistons are two things. Number one, they are heavy, much heavier than the stock SR pistons by quite a bit, its obvious that these would not be well suited for high rev applications as they would put a lot of stress on the wrist pins. Secondly they use thick rings which does not help out with high RPM sealing. The pistons I am running were designed to use the thin low tension rings from the 2001-2002 Sentra SE. These are much better for high RPM sealing as I am planning to turn 9.5K with my build.

01-25-2009, 02:31 PM	#49
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Stock v:s Stock - yes the Z32 piston is heavier. Aftermarket - weight is not an issue. rings are better. IMO... I wouldn't put stock pistons in anything I have went through the trouble of Boring/ Building. SleeperTT -The pistons will work but you will neet to bore the SR... you dont need a S15 engine... buy an S14 SR20 and the S15 Tranny, Actually you have a VG tranny... get a Maxiworx kit. The Rods, I doubt will fit the crank, or have the correct length. -Drew

01-26-2009, 05:01 PM	#51
MadScientist Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 48 Posts: 1,972 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	SR20DET Stock Bore: 3.386, 86mm Stroke: 3.386 Rod Length: 5.366 Head cc: 46.5 Gasket: .036 Deck: .000 ARIAS Pistons Bore - 3.406 / 86.5mm Comp. - 1.260 Dome - (-15) Compression RatioComp. - 8.5 Gram - 334 VG30DETT Stock Bore: 3.425, 87mm Stroke: 3.270 Rod Length: 6.071 Head cc: 49.5 Gasket: .040 Deck: .000 ARIAS Pistons Bore - 3.445 / 87.50 Comp. - 1.255 Dome - (-6) Compression RatioComp. - 9.1 Gram - 360 More tech info to feed on!! -Drew

04-16-2009, 01:17 AM	#52
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	talked to a guy that did this, seems to be like he had good luck and made over 500whp

04-17-2009, 12:01 PM	#53
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have heard that boring without a torque plate is and isnt a good idea... im thinking it would be better with the torque plate, but i cant find anyone in socal that bores with a torque plate for the SR20, JWT used to but they no longer offer machining services, anyone know of anyone else?

04-18-2009, 08:56 PM	#55
timtiminy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 624 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yeah... I am just wondering the long term effects if i dont use a torque plate to bore.