Drift entrance techniques/form

[pacotaco345]

So! I haven't posted on here since the rainy season and all I did was spin out cuz I didn't know how to control my right foot... All I really did then was clutchkick because I thought handbrake initiations were too hard, (backwards right? haha I know). Recently near the end of the rainy season I started to experiment with the handbrake, start in 3rd, put it in 2nd, keep the clutch in, rip the handbrake to initiate, then let the clutch out and continue my slide. In the rain this worked pretty well, and I was even able to connect a couple turns by my house by drifting the initial right hand turn, swinging the car back left, right, and then back left again to finish the left hand turn. Now when I try and do it in the dry I either straighten back out or spin during transition, I obviously give the car more power to compensate for it being dry out, but it seems like I can't find the balance between understeering and spinning. I was wondering if clutchkicking during a transition would help or anything like that. I'm currently on ebay coils so they're definitely not the best handling wise, and thought that maybe the in the dry they load more weight and thus when I transition there's more momentum.. I'm also running a stock KA w a header, exhuast and the usual 17 year-old kid mods, and I have 215/45/17's front and rear.. Thanks!

[chiboy002]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

wall-o-text

you're probably just used to driving in the rain too much

learning to drift in the rain sucks, it makes you think you're better than you actually are (not trying to be a dick)

rain is only good for learning how to control a car while it's already drifting, anything else is pretty much in a different ball game.

Just keep practicing in dry conditions, there seems to be nothing wrong with what you are doing.

You don't learn much from drifting on street corners, that's not the way to go about doing this.

[Lumos]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

So! I haven't posted on here since the rainy season and all I did was spin out cuz I didn't know how to control my right foot... All I really did then was clutchkick because I thought handbrake initiations were too hard, (backwards right? haha I know). Recently near the end of the rainy season I started to experiment with the handbrake, start in 3rd, put it in 2nd, keep the clutch in, rip the handbrake to initiate, then let the clutch out and continue my slide. In the rain this worked pretty well, and I was even able to connect a couple turns by my house by drifting the initial right hand turn, swinging the car back left, right, and then back left again to finish the left hand turn. Now when I try and do it in the dry I either straighten back out or spin during transition, I obviously give the car more power to compensate for it being dry out, but it seems like I can't find the balance between understeering and spinning. I was wondering if clutchkicking during a transition would help or anything like that. I'm currently on ebay coils so they're definitely not the best handling wise, and thought that maybe the in the dry they load more weight and thus when I transition there's more momentum.. I'm also running a stock KA w a header, exhuast and the usual 17 year-old kid mods, and I have 215/45/17's front and rear.. Thanks!

You need to crank up your tire pressure in the back, try 55 psi or more.

[godspeed01]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

So! I haven't posted on here since the rainy season and all I did was spin out cuz I didn't know how to control my right foot... All I really did then was clutchkick because I thought handbrake initiations were too hard, (backwards right? haha I know). Recently near the end of the rainy season I started to experiment with the handbrake, start in 3rd, put it in 2nd, keep the clutch in, rip the handbrake to initiate, then let the clutch out and continue my slide. In the rain this worked pretty well, and I was even able to connect a couple turns by my house by drifting the initial right hand turn, swinging the car back left, right, and then back left again to finish the left hand turn. Now when I try and do it in the dry I either straighten back out or spin during transition, I obviously give the car more power to compensate for it being dry out, but it seems like I can't find the balance between understeering and spinning. I was wondering if clutchkicking during a transition would help or anything like that. I'm currently on ebay coils so they're definitely not the best handling wise, and thought that maybe the in the dry they load more weight and thus when I transition there's more momentum.. I'm also running a stock KA w a header, exhuast and the usual 17 year-old kid mods, and I have 215/45/17's front and rear.. Thanks!

quit wasting your time. come out to adamsmotorsportspark.com every thursday and ask some of the guys there. They know their drift and can help you improve.

[SUPERSTAR]

hI .

[pacotaco345]

^^ thats already my current pressure haha

[JDMStanced]

My question of location completely ignored lol.
I tired sliding from making a right turn today. I spun out for the first time lol . On the next one, i let the rear lose grip by flooring, counter steering little bit to go to the direction i want, then i floored. I did it to have more angle in the corner but i was just going the direction of counter steer. No more angle. what's did i do wrong?

[iamtheyi]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

My question of location completely ignored lol.
I tired sliding from making a right turn today. I spun out for the first time lol . On the next one, i let the rear lose grip by flooring, counter steering little bit to go to the direction i want, then i floored. I did it to have more angle in the corner but i was just going the direction of counter steer. No more angle. what's did i do wrong?

We will not condone street drifting here. If you have to, go to some back lot or parking lot. Finding it is up to you. No one is going to tell you a spot.

I really hope that right turn was not on a public street.

[godspeed01]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

My question of location completely ignored lol.
I tired sliding from making a right turn today. I spun out for the first time lol . On the next one, i let the rear lose grip by flooring, counter steering little bit to go to the direction i want, then i floored. I did it to have more angle in the corner but i was just going the direction of counter steer. No more angle. what's did i do wrong?

you spun out because you have slow hands....

faster hands = no spin out.

[fckillerbee]

I'm going to be at the 626DRIFT event this sunday MAY22ND at horsethief mile. If anyone needs help, I'll be there helping staff.

this is the perfect track to hone on your initiation skills and weight transfer. Good for beginners and great for advanced driving. Send me a PM and we can pre-set up your car for success!

[!Zar!]

The talk of running a lot of camber is interesting. Just as a road car runs more camber to keep up corner speed, same should be prominent in a drift car, no?

Personally I have noticed that grip goes up when camber is introduced in the rear (in moderation).

I could see a car losing rear grip if the car had camber and suspension that didn't move, but that isn't really the case here.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

The talk of running a lot of camber is interesting. Just as a road car runs more camber to keep up corner speed, same should be prominent in a drift car, no?

Personally I have noticed that grip goes up when camber is introduced in the rear (in moderation).

I could see a car losing rear grip if the car had camber and suspension that didn't move, but that isn't really the case here.

mercer right?

from what I could imagine. Road cars achieve more G's in a corner than a drift car would. I would think that upon first initiating, we would achieve the maximum amount of g forces, and once settled and on thorrle, the g forces would be moved in another direction, and those suspension settings would be more prominent to a drag car with less traction.

road cars have what...all 4 tires using friction. vs a drift car would have foward traction coming from the rear, as well as lateral traction. But the front tires would not add too much traction laterally as they should be pointing in the direction we are trying to acheive.

I guess I couldn't imagine a drift cars front tires being used as heavily as a road cars front tires.




any expert opinions? You've been driving for a while....anything you notice in your fc?

[Perfect Balance]

I think in the case of a 240sx, which have McPherson struts up front with a lot of caster, a lot of camber up front helps keep the tires flat while countersteering to provide grip for adjusting the car or braking, which in a drift car is more important than cornering grip, especially considering that it is only used on turn in. Overdoing the camber will still introduce understeer though, but a driver can work around that with weight transfer, end result being a car that is more controllable during a drift. I.e. when it's doing most of it's work.

I imagine in the rear you would want to run less camber than you would for grip, since like you said there are less lateral forces being applied. This used to make perfect sense until people started running positive camber on the rear in Formula D. I have no freaking clue what that does and how that works, so my view on rear camber in drift cars is subject to change.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

I think in the case of a 240sx, which have McPherson struts up front with a lot of caster, a lot of camber up front helps keep the tires flat while countersteering to provide grip for adjusting the car or braking, which in a drift car is more important than cornering grip, especially considering that it is only used on turn in. Overdoing the camber will still introduce understeer though, but a driver can work around that with weight transfer, end result being a car that is more controllable during a drift. I.e. when it's doing most of it's work.

I imagine in the rear you would want to run less camber than you would for grip, since like you said there are less lateral forces being applied. This used to make perfect sense until people started running positive camber on the rear in Formula D. I have no freaking clue what that does and how that works, so my view on rear camber in drift cars is subject to change.

according to the guy that does forsebergs car. it's because the suspension acts differently under load. Almost opposite of a 240. Again..from what I've been told.

[Perfect Balance]

That's kind of the story I heard too, but, it might just be at zero, but it looks like these cars are also running positive camber.









Then again it might just be me. If they aren't running positive camber, then they're running right at 0, which still doesn't really make sense to me as far as making it drift faster.

[nathanong87]

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

That's kind of the story I heard too, but, it might just be at zero, but it looks like these cars are also running positive camber.

Then again it might just be me. If they aren't running positive camber, then they're running right at 0, which still doesn't really make sense to me as far as making it drift faster.

some start at positive because under compression the car will squat and gain more negative camber. so while on throttle that car has like 0 camber or something.

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by nathanong87

some start at positive because under compression the car will squat and gain more negative camber. so while on throttle that car has like 0 camber or something.

Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion that I've come to. I just thought you would still want a degree or so of negative camber while drifting, which they don't appear to have.

Makes me wonder if people actually determined the normal amount of suspension compression during a typical drift and then loaded the car and aligned it and stuff, or if it was some half assed alignment job and now it looks like it's got a bunch of positive camber, and all they know is that it works better than when they had -2 degree of static camber. I'd hope not.

It does make sense though, so I guess my question at this point is why 0 degrees of camber in a drift is best, where I would imagine at least a decent bit a negative camber would be beneficial.

I think we may be getting off topic though.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion that I've come to. I just thought you would still want a degree or so of negative camber while drifting, which they don't appear to have.

Makes me wonder if people actually determined the normal amount of suspension compression during a typical drift and then loaded the car and aligned it and stuff, or if it was some half assed alignment job and now it looks like it's got a bunch of positive camber, and all they know is that it works better than when they had -2 degree of static camber. I'd hope not.

It does make sense though, so I guess my question at this point is why 0 degrees of camber in a drift is best, where I would imagine at least a decent bit a negative camber would be beneficial.

I think we may be getting off topic though.

think of it this way. Why don't drag cars run crazy negative camber.

well simple...they are going in a straight line.

in order to get the forward traction...you have to tune your rear..much like a drag car. these guys are starting to figure that out.

as far as alignment specs, I'm pretty sure they use camera's to tape movement of the suspension arms, and did an alignment...took tire temperatures, and went from there. I would seriously die if I found out they "guessed" on a drift setup.

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

think of it this way. Why don't drag cars run crazy negative camber.

well simple...they are going in a straight line.

in order to get the forward traction...you have to tune your rear..much like a drag car. these guys are starting to figure that out.

as far as alignment specs, I'm pretty sure they use camera's to tape movement of the suspension arms, and did an alignment...took tire temperatures, and went from there. I would seriously die if I found out they "guessed" on a drift setup.

Yeah, but getting forward traction when going straight isn't the same as getting forward traction when lateral forces are applied and the car has body roll, and the tires aren't loaded the same.

Of course, I'll admit I'm kind of lost when it comes to aligning a car to make it do something better that it's not intended to do. I'm just thinking along the lines of grip car. The way I see it, a grip car has a bit of negative camber to allow it to utilize the tires with the most grip in a corner, allowing it to corner faster. In a drift situation, the tires with the most grip are the same as in a grip car, (the outside tires) so if you can do the same thing, you will have more grip, thus allowing the car to have more grip, and therefore more speed through the corner.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't really care for my personal car, but I'd like to know why things are done the way they are, just to know how to do it "properly".

[Houseof1817]

with the amount of power that those cars are distributing to the ground, why would there be the need to worry about the tire speed catching up.

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by Houseof1817

with the amount of power that those cars are distributing to the ground, why would there be the need to worry about the tire speed catching up.

It has more to do with going faster than with whatever you're talking about. More grip = more speed.

[Houseof1817]

yeah, they initiate at a higher speed yet retain a full contact patch. im loosing you and your claim to irrelevancy

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by Houseof1817

yeah, they initiate at a higher speed yet retain a full contact patch. im loosing you and your claim to irrelevancy

With 0 camber, in a drift , you will only be using the outside edge of the outside tire, and the inside edge of the inside tire during the drift. With some negative camber, they will still be able to use the entire outside tire, which is the one with most grip in the corner anyway, therefore giving the car more grip during the grip, and as a result, more speed. The inside tire won't have much grip, but it has the least potential for grip anyway because it's on the inside and unloaded.

I fail to see how having 0 camber, or what appear to be positive camber, helps during a drift.

I'm still lost as what you mean by "tire speed catching up".

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

mercer right?

from what I could imagine. Road cars achieve more G's in a corner than a drift car would. I would think that upon first initiating, we would achieve the maximum amount of g forces, and once settled and on thorrle, the g forces would be moved in another direction, and those suspension settings would be more prominent to a drag car with less traction.

road cars have what...all 4 tires using friction. vs a drift car would have foward traction coming from the rear, as well as lateral traction. But the front tires would not add too much traction laterally as they should be pointing in the direction we are trying to acheive.

I guess I couldn't imagine a drift cars front tires being used as heavily as a road cars front tires.




any expert opinions? You've been driving for a while....anything you notice in your fc?

Mercer? I'm not Chmercer lol. While I do agree that drift cars are not maintaining G-forces as long as actual road race cars, they are still experiencing body roll.

This picture shows that the full face of the tire is now hitting the ground (which in turn will give more grip) due to camber. I have experienced this personally in terms of grip. When I ran more camber in back, my car was able to gain speed faster due to the fact that there was more tire contacting the ground. Subsequently, running too little camber in back will make the car feel a little twitchy during transitions, and over all; but that can be more towards what tire you run.

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

I think in the case of a 240sx, which have McPherson struts up front with a lot of caster, a lot of camber up front helps keep the tires flat while countersteering to provide grip for adjusting the car or braking, which in a drift car is more important than cornering grip, especially considering that it is only used on turn in. Overdoing the camber will still introduce understeer though, but a driver can work around that with weight transfer, end result being a car that is more controllable during a drift. I.e. when it's doing most of it's work.

I imagine in the rear you would want to run less camber than you would for grip, since like you said there are less lateral forces being applied. This used to make perfect sense until people started running positive camber on the rear in Formula D. I have no freaking clue what that does and how that works, so my view on rear camber in drift cars is subject to change.

For the front, you definitely want to run camber being as how as you mentioned, with our cars, they start going positive once you turn the wheel. Yes, too much camber up front does give you reduced grip during initiation. Best bet is to try and run as little camber as your caster/knuckle setup allows. Generally you would like to have the full face touching the ground at lock, and adjust camber accordingly to have such happen.

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

That's kind of the story I heard too, but, it might just be at zero, but it looks like these cars are also running positive camber.

(pictures)
Then again it might just be me. If they aren't running positive camber, then they're running right at 0, which still doesn't really make sense to me as far as making it drift faster.

Only person I have heard from multiple people running positive camber in rear is Forsberg. I know Matt Fields isn't running positive camber in rear.

Originally Posted by Perfect Balance

With 0 camber, in a drift , you will only be using the outside edge of the outside tire, and the inside edge of the inside tire during the drift. With some negative camber, they will still be able to use the entire outside tire, which is the one with most grip in the corner anyway, therefore giving the car more grip during the grip, and as a result, more speed. The inside tire won't have much grip, but it has the least potential for grip anyway because it's on the inside and unloaded.

I fail to see how having 0 camber, or what appear to be positive camber, helps during a drift.

I'm still lost as what you mean by "tire speed catching up".

You all need to remember that a lot of these cars are running softer suspension setups, so on some of them they gain camber as they squat. Possibly on Forsberg's car he has static positive camber, but once he is on the throttle and the car squats the camber goes negative.

Also, grip is attained through running rear toe as well, camber isn't the only source of rear end grip.

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

You all need to remember that a lot of these cars are running softer suspension setups, so on some of them they gain camber as they squat. Possibly on Forsberg's car he has static positive camber, but once he is on the throttle and the car squats the camber goes negative.

I actually thought of this as well, but the car clearly has positive camber even during a drift, so that couldn't be it, although that might explain the near 0 camber on the other cars. 240s really gain a lot of camber (well, lose, technically) upon compression.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Mercer? I'm not Chmercer lol. .

I thought I saw you post mercer's car in a thread. He also has the "gentleman" thing going on. lol so I was just putting two and two.


a lot of us also have to realize this is really big on drivers preference/style tire. Who knows...maybe the fact that some tires have stiffer sidewall than the inside tire, so running positive camber could also help traction since it's putting more pressure on the corner.

shit I don't know. I've just been told by the dude that put his car together that the geometry on the Z is different, and that's why they run those settings.

it's kinda like the neg front camber.

some like it cause it gives them more control on full lock. While others i'm sure run less so that you actually scrub front traction (allowing more angle). You have sooo many variables. The biggest one being driver preference/style.



I'll ask my buddy's at mazdatrix for kyles setup. See what he's doing. lol

[theianmcdougall]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Mercer? I'm not Chmercer lol. While I do agree that drift cars are not maintaining G-forces as long as actual road race cars, they are still experiencing body roll.

This picture shows that the full face of the tire is now hitting the ground (which in turn will give more grip) due to camber. I have experienced this personally in terms of grip. When I ran more camber in back, my car was able to gain speed faster due to the fact that there was more tire contacting the ground. Subsequently, running too little camber in back will make the car feel a little twitchy during transitions, and over all; but that can be more towards what tire you run.

Hahah never thought i'd see my Daily driver pop up in a drift technique thread


Dont really drift it anymore due to me building a 240. And one of the reasons i went with the s13 over the z33 is suspension setup

When i got the Z33 i got megan street coilovers. They ride super good and dont handle bad, but the problem with most Z coils is that they aren't true type coilovers. Stance and a few other companies make true coilovers but the majority ive seen dont. the reason this is a problem is because the arm that holds the spring controls your toe. and if you lower the z you cant get good camber and toe numbers w/o getting an adjustable toe arm. And spl is the only company that makes a arm that holds the spring an is adjustable, but its like 800 bucks with everything, (ouch).

On the z i was running like -4 degrees of rear camber at that event, and although my body roll put more tread down on the ground, it still didnt handle like i wanted it too. front camber settings were good and it did fine (-3 to -3.5). but my rear ate tires wayy to fast and didnt gain speed as fast as i know it could do.

On my s13 i dialed it in too front -2.5 to -3 and rears are at -2. and i like where it is at.

ive never personally drifted with 0 rear camber but in my personal opinion a degree or 2 of camber in the rear helps when your body rolls from those sideways g's

[iamtheyi]

There's too much intelligence going on here for me.

[Brian]

too advanced. brain explode.

[fckillerbee]

whats amazing out of all this....is that we have been doing it for less than 10 years. japanland has 10 years on us.

And we still don't even know what would be a perfect "drift setup".

Momentum has a lot to do with getting the car around a corner in a drift. while the rear tires push the car forwards. If you notice, when drivers are trying to pickup speed, they run very little angle.

In a grip situation, you have lateral grip "x" and forward grip "y"...both of those have to equal "z (100% friction)".

In drifting, the front tires don't have a huge amount of lateral force (as the tires are to direct the vehicle...rather than hold grip). So thinking about that, means that the rear tires have to "push" to keep the car going forward, while the momentum helps keep the car sliding sideways.

I really wish would could get some pro's logic behind their setups.