GT2871 USERS. SR motor

[Freddy]

why not try efr?

[Patrick Bowering]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Well, I will keep an eye on this thread. But once I get my motor back together I think I will go with a 2871 .64 turbo.

Anyone have a spool comparison between a .64 2871 and a Twin Scroll 3071?

I want 375 horsepower, and reliability. Definately RELIABILITY.

I have 740cc injectors, will be tuning with Nistune more than likely, and will probably add a Meth kit as well, just for detonation protection more than anything.

With the Meth on this setup, what AFR should you tune to?

And If Im going for more mid-range power, a good grunt, what manifold/cam setup should I go with and this 2871 turbo?

I am sure cody will chime in soon on this but I will throw in my two cents. I had a twin scroll 3071 it was laggy as fuck but I did not have a great manifold and I also had a freddy intake which does not help the low end grunt. My two dyno sheets are in here somewhere. Now I have a .64 gt2871 with tial v band exhuast housing with 4 inch inlet, custom tubular exhuast mani freddy intake mani, jwt 260 degree cams. I wish I had kept my stock intake mani for bottom end out of boost power.

[SlideOrDie831]

JWT 264's.

[cotbu]

Originally Posted by SlideOrDie831

JWT 264's.

step your game up, jwt 260's probably equals jwt s3 cams

[nismoninjagtr]

my car should be going to the dyno in the next week or two i bought my gt2871r from frsport and it came with an adjustable internal wastegate i assume made by garrett, now the problem... the wastegate arm has too much tension and i can't control how much boost it's running, what reliable internal wastegate are you guys running? or is there an arm extension adapter i can use to bring the psi down so i can use my ebc to change psi?

[zurud]

loosen the arm

[nismoninjagtr]

its on the end of the threads and the psi didn't change at all, trust me thats an option i explotied...

[tabasco122]

hks wastegate, should run you about $130

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by nismoninjagtr

my car should be going to the dyno in the next week or two i bought my gt2871r from frsport and it came with an adjustable internal wastegate i assume made by garrett, now the problem... the wastegate arm has too much tension and i can't control how much boost it's running, what reliable internal wastegate are you guys running? or is there an arm extension adapter i can use to bring the psi down so i can use my ebc to change psi?

I believe you don't have an adjustable WG. The adjustment on the rod is just to get the WG door alignment right. Sure you can pre-load it a little but no real adjustment.

Wastegates : atpturbo.com

Originally Posted by tabasco122

hks wastegate, should run you about $130

Waste of money.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Well, I will keep an eye on this thread. But once I get my motor back together I think I will go with a 2871 .64 turbo.

Anyone have a spool comparison between a .64 2871 and a Twin Scroll 3071?

I want 375 horsepower, and reliability. Definately RELIABILITY.

And If Im going for more mid-range power, a good grunt, what manifold/cam setup should I go with and this 2871 turbo?

Must Haves:
JWT S3 Cams
2871r .64
Decent FMIC (the CheapSpeed cores sucks)
Greddy o2 housing
JWT or Enthalpy Tune

What I'd also suggest:
Greddy Manifold
Extrude Hone Stock Exhaust Manifold
Swain Coated Stock manifold

Stock Intake manifold and a non modified exhaust manifold should get you there at 20 psi, so long as the tune and fueling is there. Unless you're capable of tuning the car yourself, or have a very good friend, the Jim Wolf or Enthalpy tunes are plenty capable and more than safe for your power goals. Custom EMS is overkill at that power level.

Lastly, a 30r based setup are much laggier and not needed. If you want to make 400 hp, go 2871r. If you want to make 450+, you may as well put a 35r on there, deal with the lag boost, and make real HP.

Originally Posted by Freddy

why not try efr?

Still new, no proven results on the small frame stuff. I want the EFR small range stuff to blow the 2871r out of the water so it would force me to change, but I really doubt it will make any noticable (by noticable, I mean cost effective) gains compared to these setups.

Originally Posted by SlideOrDie831

JWT 264's.

S4's are good for the 2871r .86 housing, and larger turbos
S3 (260*) are the perfect 2871r turbo. Same can be said with the 260 Tomei cams.

Originally Posted by Patrick Bowering

I wish I had kept my stock intake mani for bottom end out of boost power.

Any more, I'm becomming less and less a believer in the stock manifold providing world changing low end response. Sure it's there, but it's only a 2-300 rpm of spool, and maybe 5-10 ft lbs down low. To me, that is not worth giving up the 20-25 peak HP up to, and the elongated torque band. In the end it's not worth nitpicking over, as the average power increase of the greddy manifold is worthwhile to me.

Originally Posted by nismoninjagtr

or is there an arm extension adapter i can use to bring the psi down so i can use my ebc to change psi?

You'll want to put some slight tension on the falpper housing, and then use the EBC to control your peak boost. Ultimatly speaking, the internal gate sucks (I've tried them all, Forge/HKS/Gareett) and not one worked well/long enough to really control top end boost for me. I went external wastegate on the stock manifold and never look back. For the cost, it's a no brainer.

Originally Posted by S14DB

(In regard to HKS actuator) Waste of money.

Totally the truth. That was a big time waste.

[tabasco122]

is it really? i have the stock t25 still, but i messed up my stock wastegate, upgraded to the hks (after unsucessfully trying an ebay wastegate) and i no longer get boost creep at 12psi. what extactly makes it a waste?

[codyace]

Originally Posted by tabasco122

is it really? i have the stock t25 still, but i messed up my stock wastegate, upgraded to the hks (after unsucessfully trying an ebay wastegate) and i no longer get boost creep at 12psi. what extactly makes it a waste?

At 12 psi, even a Garrett one works fine. It's once you start getting up and beyond 16 psi where they all kinda stink/not work after a while. THey all work at first, then you gotta preload them, and then they are uncontroable. Even on the dyno, sometimes (running strictly off the gate) you'd see 14, and others 22. That's not boost control to me.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by tabasco122

is it really? i have the stock t25 still, but i messed up my stock wastegate, upgraded to the hks (after unsucessfully trying an ebay wastegate) and i no longer get boost creep at 12psi. what extactly makes it a waste?

It's a re-branded Garrett unit. Why pay $130 for something you can get from Garrett for half that?

[nismoninjagtr]

well dang i'll have to figure something out before i get it out onto the dyno...

[slider2828]

Any more, I'm becomming less and less a believer in the stock manifold providing world changing low end response. Sure it's there, but it's only a 2-300 rpm of spool, and maybe 5-10 ft lbs down low. To me, that is not worth giving up the 20-25 peak HP up to, and the elongated torque band. In the end it's not worth nitpicking over, as the average power increase of the greddy manifold is worthwhile to me.

I fully agree with cody on this one after getting my setup tuned on a stock.... I found that I rather go with greddy or truthfully ISIS.

1. Unless you are trying to initiate drifting at like 3500 rpm and probably still not have enough torque to do so on that GT2871R to drift, your not going to miss that spool up time

2. It cleans up EVERYTHING under the intake manifold. Oil filter, water lines, knock sensor, oil relocation/oil cooler lines have WAY more room. You can get to it from under the car!

3. You lost a LOT of top end. I mean after about 6000 RPM, your torque and HP drops like a rock.....

This is what I found....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I fully agree with cody on this one after getting my setup tuned on a stock.... I found that I rather go with greddy or truthfully ISIS.

As much as I hate to admit it, and I can understand 100% why not to go with knockoff as it hurts the industry and all...but in the end of the day the Isis/Godspeed/Ebay 'Freddy' manifolds make the same power and torque that the Greddy does. Don't get me wrong the casting isn't as 'nice looking' and you gotta/should retap the NPT fitting holes...but aside from that, for the 200-300 less dollar price...it's *every* bit as good.

Originally Posted by slider2828

1. Unless you are trying to initiate drifting at like 3500 rpm and probably still not have enough torque to do so on that GT2871R to drift, your not going to miss that spool up time

2. It cleans up EVERYTHING under the intake manifold. Oil filter, water lines, knock sensor, oil relocation/oil cooler lines have WAY more room. You can get to it from under the car!

3. You lost a LOT of top end. I mean after about 6000 RPM, your torque and HP drops like a rock.....

This is what I found....

Exactly my point. Forever peole used to talk about the midrange 'supremacy' of the stock manifold down low....reality is, who really cares about 10 ft lbs on a dyno from 3000-4000 rpm when you can gain 15+ hp and trq average?

[tabasco122]

Originally Posted by codyace

At 12 psi, even a Garrett one works fine. It's once you start getting up and beyond 16 psi where they all kinda stink/not work after a while. THey all work at first, then you gotta preload them, and then they are uncontroable. Even on the dyno, sometimes (running strictly off the gate) you'd see 14, and others 22. That's not boost control to me.

Originally Posted by S14DB

It's a re-branded Garrett unit. Why pay $130 for something you can get from Garrett for half that?

I wasnt aware. i picked one up after i tried an ebay unit that didnt work. didnt know there was a cheaper alternative...

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by codyace

As much as I hate to admit it, and I can understand 100% why not to go with knockoff as it hurts the industry and all...but in the end of the day the Isis/Godspeed/Ebay 'Freddy' manifolds make the same power and torque that the Greddy does. Don't get me wrong the casting isn't as 'nice looking' and you gotta/should retap the NPT fitting holes...but aside from that, for the 200-300 less dollar price...it's *every* bit as good.




Exactly my point. Forever peole used to talk about the midrange 'supremacy' of the stock manifold down low....reality is, who really cares about 10 ft lbs on a dyno from 3000-4000 rpm when you can gain 15+ hp and trq average?

I agree on the intake manifold, but the casting of newer ones with the polish coating is really nice. I mean its pretty awesome for like 200 bux, that is new too. A new greddy is 619!!!! That is $400 dollars difference, not worth it.

I am getting a genuine greddy oil pan. I mean seriously, they need to consider adjusting pricing on their products on older items

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I am getting a genuine greddy oil pan. I mean seriously, they need to consider adjusting pricing on their products on older items

There is no doubt some of their pricing on older stuff is a bit unconnected with the current market; however on the contrary, it may be their 'effort' at keeping older inventory in stock (then again, who knows how often greddy replenishes their manifolds, can't be that hard to make another sand cast piece)

[jspaeth]

I don't know why you guys even listen to this CodyAce guy.......it's not like he has the fastest 2871R 240 out there.

nor does he have any proof, like 1/4 mile times or trap speeds.

Oh wait.......nevermind.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Cody, what are your thoughts on Nistune?

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I agree on the intake manifold, but the casting of newer ones with the polish coating is really nice. I mean its pretty awesome for like 200 bux, that is new too. A new greddy is 619!!!! That is $400 dollars difference, not worth it.

I am getting a genuine greddy oil pan. I mean seriously, they need to consider adjusting pricing on their products on older items

Ken go with the Tomei oil pan if you can, that's what I recommend, it's worth saving up for it too if you plan on burning and turning for a while with that motor, the Greddy's and the Freddys have problems stripping and not a big fan of the bolt patterns also...this is from headaches from experience track side personally...just what I ended up doing on one of the recent builds, more expensive but I thought it was worth it for such a critical part on the SR...

Still planning a CA build with 2871r in the future lolz...and a smog exempt chassis..

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Cody, what are your thoughts on Nistune?

not a fan from personal experience

Get the AEM FIC if you're that hard up for mula or save up for a real standalone,

when you put all the prices together, and ive heard this from a few customers in the past now who switched from nistune to a used or new PFC, it's not much of savings for a diy that takes time and energy away from concentrating on the build and tuning, personal as well as advice and word back from several customers state side...

I just don't appreciate them calling it a full EMS, it's a stand in for eprom burning which is what it really is not a standalone EMS.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I don't know why you guys even listen to this CodyAce guy.......it's not like he has the fastest 2871R 240 out there.

nor does he have any proof, like 1/4 mile times or trap speeds.

Oh wait.......nevermind.

Well, to the defense of 'whereda40sat' (I think that is his name) he does have the fastest time and trap...but in a lightweight, drag setup s13 (mid 10's at 122 IIRC...1.4x 60'!) However very few of us can boast 120 traps

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Cody, what are your thoughts on Nistune?

I'll answer it below, in conjunction with Steve's posts.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Ken go with the Tomei oil pan if you can, that's what I recommend, it's worth saving up for it too if you plan on burning and turning for a while with that motor, the Greddy's and the Freddys have problems stripping and not a big fan of the bolt patterns also...this is from headaches from experience track side personally...just what I ended up doing on one of the recent builds, more expensive but I thought it was worth it for such a critical part on the SR...

What do you have issues stripping out? The drain? Sheeet...if you strip that out, you shoudln't be working on cars

I'm gonna argue on the other side: that is the Tomei pan is a little 'tricky' sort to speak with the outer sealing bolts and how limited/shallow they are. It's a minor bitch, but I prefer the allen headed socket cap screws that greddy offers. In the end, I'd use either without hesitation.

Regardless, they all work well. I've never personally installed a Moroso pan, but I have examined it, and it's another viable option as well. In the end of the day, a larger capacity/baffled pan is a huge 'safety' mod for these engines. I would not run a freddy pan however, as their threaded areas (the little bungs in the side) are often shittally cast, and require a re tap, or at best to be cut out/new bung rewelded.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

not a fan from personal experience

Get the AEM FIC if you're that hard up for mula or save up for a real standalone,

when you put all the prices together, and ive heard this from a few customers in the past now who switched from nistune to a used or new PFC, it's not much of savings for a diy that takes time and energy away from concentrating on the build and tuning, personal as well as advice and word back from several customers state side...

I just don't appreciate them calling it a full EMS, it's a stand in for eprom burning which is what it really is not a standalone EMS.

Nistune is certainly an 'option' for those capable of using it, however that market is very slim (at best). To me, I wish Calum had implemented a RealTime setup for the RWD market, as it was much more user friendly and easier to work than Nistune...however that never came to light.

I wouldn't discredit it completely though. It's a capable setup, but in the end of the day I'd rather run a JWT or Enthalpy ECU and be done with it. No worries, turn key, reliable and they work. If I was building a race car, it would be different...but I own a street, thus use street based ROM tunes. (I have thousands of track miles, but it's still a street car in the end)

[tabasco122]

i was looking at the moroso. sheet metal > cast in my opinion. i mean if it came down to it, i would rather have a sheet metal pan take a hit than a cast one.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by tabasco122

i was looking at the moroso. sheet metal > cast in my opinion. i mean if it came down to it, i would rather have a sheet metal pan take a hit than a cast one.

The greddy cast pans are actually quite tough/versatile...while I hate to admit it, I had my engine come down 'in a hurry' onto the pan once while lifting it with an engine hoist. Pan survived without fail.

In the grand scheme of things, if you're hitting something hard enogh/large enough to damage the pan, you've got other things going on to worry about hehe. I understand the debate, but I wouldn't say the sheet metal pans are any more/less durable than the Greddy ones..heck you could hit a rock and still tear/brake a weld on the steel ones, just as easy as cracking a cast one.

[tabasco122]

true i guess. i have so much more to do before i get an oil pan though, like actually get my 2871r. ive been running around on a fully built engine with the stock turbo since january lol. my trip to the dragon last month and my trip to indy this month are sucking me dry.

im very curious to see what ill make on the dyno once i get it.

does anyone else have 9:1 CR with this turbo? i tried to look for dyno charts of a setup similar to mine, but i couldnt really find anything.

[usdm180sx]

My Greddy oilpan stripped. Autobacs did it when I got my oil changed but they bought me a new one. But yeah I wasn't too happy about it

[BiG MiKE86]

Originally Posted by tabasco122

true i guess. i have so much more to do before i get an oil pan though, like actually get my 2871r. ive been running around on a fully built engine with the stock turbo since january lol. my trip to the dragon last month and my trip to indy this month are sucking me dry.

im very curious to see what ill make on the dyno once i get it.

does anyone else have 9:1 CR with this turbo? i tried to look for dyno charts of a setup similar to mine, but i couldnt really find anything.

I am running CP 9:1 comp pistons. I have a dyno sheet somewhere in this thread but I was also having trouble making boost/power past 16 psi (340rwhp) - Ill be re-tuning soon and be posting graphs

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by codyace

Nistune is certainly an 'option' for those capable of using it, however that market is very slim (at best). To me, I wish Calum had implemented a RealTime setup for the RWD market, as it was much more user friendly and easier to work than Nistune...however that never came to light.

I wouldn't discredit it completely though. It's a capable setup, but in the end of the day I'd rather run a JWT or Enthalpy ECU and be done with it. No worries, turn key, reliable and they work. If I was building a race car, it would be different...but I own a street, thus use street based ROM tunes. (I have thousands of track miles, but it's still a street car in the end)

I understand the simplicity and ease of getting a ROM based tune, but something about it still makes me nervous not being able to control everything...

Im on my 2nd motor now, and really really cant afford to let another one go, I got too much other shit to save for. What are you running for tuning?

Whats the cost of that? done and finished. and how often do you have to send it in and get it retuned? I worry about changing things and then having to spend another 300 to get it retuned...

My setup will end up being a built bottom end, a moderately built (rebuilt) topend, z32, S14 T28( gt2871 eventually), 740cc injectors, Greddy FMIC, exhaust, walbro 255, and all the other supporting mods that go with the above.

I just dont know what I want to do to keep this thing in check