SPL Monoball Bushings

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by Zenki_516

If anyone is worried about squeaking or binding, just buy the bushings in BLACK. The black ones lubricate themselves while the red ones dry out over time. And you should spray any ES bushing with white lithium grease every so often to prevent either from happening.

Buy more of the ES lube or get grease for marine applications.

[bardabe]

no your supposed to take it all apart, get the bushings out, lube them and put it back together. Properly

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

on the other hand, when they fail it can be ugly....

I've had this happen to me personally and on my buddy's S13, except on our cars it was both the trac arm and the ruca that broke.

As stated, urethane bushings are fine, as long as they're lubricated. Once they lose lube they bind terribly, squeak, and break shit. I recommend installing zerk fittings on any urethane bushing that you install on your car so that they can be greased easily and regularly.

As for the monoballs, the only issue is their service life vs the cost of replacement. Monoballs used for daily use will probably wear out in a couple years and require replacement. Replacing them won't be cheap. You can buy seals to try and limit the amount of dirt and debris that get into them, which will extend the service life. As for driveability the reduction in bind will likely result in a smoother overall ride, you'll just be able to feel more vibration and hear more noise since there is no rubber to dampen the vibration. All in all the monoballs are the better choice as long as you can afford them.

[Howie Felter Snatch]

ManoNegra, you're the man! Thanks for answering my questions. I definitely lubed the shit out of them when I installed them.. But now you have me thinking how would one go about re-lubricating their ES bushings without disassembling the arms/knuckles to get at them? Can I spray some kind of lubricant or just apply some ES grease to the outside in hopes that it will help.. lol..

That picture just freaked the shit out of me.. Wow all that because of a squeaky Polyurethane bushing lol

[az_240]

^Gotta take them apart for it to really do anything. I found white lithium grease is not good for these bushings.... it tends to make them stick and does not last as long.

The ES grease or other TEFLON based grease is best.

Also it might help some of you to put washers on the inner (rotating) sleeves. Ive noticed some of the ES bushings actually stick out past these sleeves a good bit so when you torque everything down the link is now sandwiched and unable to rotate properly. Washers will space the sleeves out so the torque is being applied to the sleeve instead of the bushing.

If anyone wants to swap out the red bushings in their uprights/rear arms for the better black ones (yes they are the newer graphite bushings) I have a new set I'd be willing to sell for $30

[Zenki_516]

Originally Posted by rage

so, the black ones don't have the binding issue?

It's not like it can't happen, but its less likely. I have black in my FLCAs and red in my RLCAs and after a year the black ones are in much better shape.

[JDMStanced]

i had REALLY hard time pressing in the bushings all the way in. i had a little help from press to do so.
I have no idea how i'll be able to remove the bushings from the arm to grease it.. -_-..last time i tried, it didn't do chitt

[codyace]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

i had REALLY hard time pressing in the bushings all the way in. i had a little help from press to do so.
I have no idea how i'll be able to remove the bushings from the arm to grease it.. -_-..last time i tried, it didn't do chitt

You don't remove the bushing, just the metal inner bushing...that's the only part that spins in the bushing, not the entire thing. You should be able to put a socket against it, hammer it out half way, grease it, and then do it from the other side and repeat.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by codyace

You don't remove the bushing, just the metal inner bushing...that's the only part that spins in the bushing, not the entire thing. You should be able to put a socket against it, hammer it out half way, grease it, and then do it from the other side and repeat.

oh! that'll be hella easier than lubing the whole thing thanks.

[Howie Felter Snatch]

Originally Posted by codyace

You don't remove the bushing, just the metal inner bushing...that's the only part that spins in the bushing, not the entire thing. You should be able to put a socket against it, hammer it out half way, grease it, and then do it from the other side and repeat.

You're full of great ideas just like a nasty skank's snatch is full of herps.. Keep up the good work!

Originally Posted by az_240

^Gotta take them apart for it to really do anything. I found white lithium grease is not good for these bushings.... it tends to make them stick and does not last as long.

The ES grease or other TEFLON based grease is best.

Awesome! I guess I wont be using my 'special' grease on them anymore..

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by Howie Felter Snatch

You're full of great ideas just like a nasty skank's snatch is full of herps.. Keep up the good work!






Awesome! I guess I wont be using my 'special' grease on them anymore..

are you saying that is not the way to do it?

i heard anti seize work better than the grease provided. I used anti seize

[Def]

Originally Posted by racepar1

I've had this happen to me personally and on my buddy's S13, except on our cars it was both the trac arm and the ruca that broke.

As stated, urethane bushings are fine, as long as they're lubricated. Once they lose lube they bind terribly, squeak, and break shit. I recommend installing zerk fittings on any urethane bushing that you install on your car so that they can be greased easily and regularly.

As for the monoballs, the only issue is their service life vs the cost of replacement. Monoballs used for daily use will probably wear out in a couple years and require replacement. Replacing them won't be cheap. You can buy seals to try and limit the amount of dirt and debris that get into them, which will extend the service life. As for driveability the reduction in bind will likely result in a smoother overall ride, you'll just be able to feel more vibration and hear more noise since there is no rubber to dampen the vibration. All in all the monoballs are the better choice as long as you can afford them.

The spherical bearings in my kits are fairly cheap to replace (approx $45 for all of them), and the sleeves are designed so the user can replace the bearings. I still have my first prototype set on my car with no play or wear in the bearings, with as much track time as I can fit on them and the occasional grass fire over the past 4-5 yrs.

I highly recommend them, they really make a VERY noticeable seat of the pants change for the better.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

are you saying that is not the way to do it?

i heard anti seize work better than the grease provided. I used anti seize

Haha it's the easy/right way. Anti Seize is some nasty stuff but really isn't a lubricant.

[az_240]

Also dino based greases are known for breaking down poly. I'm not sure what is in anti seize but it's probably better to stick with a 100% synthetic teflon grease. They sell the ES grease at AutoZone/Checker for pretty cheap.

And yea sliding the inner sleeve with a socket and C clamp without removing all the way is the best way to grease them with minimal downtime.

[rbs14kouki]

Would they fit in a driftworks rear spindle ?!?

DEF you have a PM.

[az_240]

^Unfortunately the DW rear knuckles use a different size diameter. I know skullworks made some for the DW knuckles a while back for about the same price though...

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by az_240

^Unfortunately the DW rear knuckles use a different size diameter. I know skullworks made some for the DW knuckles a while back for about the same price though...

Those were a custom/hook up job for a friend
off the shelf ones that were made wouldn't work since we found out that the
IDs of the DW knuckles were not consistent
custom housing were made for each spot

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

Those were a custom/hook up job for a friend
off the shelf ones that were made wouldn't work since we found out that the
IDs of the DW knuckles were not consistent
custom housing were made for each spot

If you don't mind divulging a little bit more information...

So you guys just made sleeves for each point to make the ID's of the bearing mounting points were consistent - then used the same bearing in each spot?

[Def]

Originally Posted by thefro526

If you don't mind divulging a little bit more information...

So you guys just made sleeves for each point to make the ID's of the bearing mounting points were consistent - then used the same bearing in each spot?

Yes, the bearings sit in a machined sleeve. The DW spindles use unmachined tubing so the diameters are extremely inconsistent. That's fine for using poly bushings, but it won't work at all for a light press fit.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Howie Felter Snatch

ManoNegra, you're the man! Thanks for answering my questions. I definitely lubed the shit out of them when I installed them.. But now you have me thinking how would one go about re-lubricating their ES bushings without disassembling the arms/knuckles to get at them? Can I spray some kind of lubricant or just apply some ES grease to the outside in hopes that it will help.. lol..

That picture just freaked the shit out of me.. Wow all that because of a squeaky Polyurethane bushing lol

Spray lube will do nothing, the sleeves must be removed to grease the bushing. Also, the color of the bushings does not matter. I've had both black and red bushings bind and break arms. When you install the bushings, or remove them to grease them, install zerk fittings as described in the link below. In the write-up the guy taps the holes for the fittings. On the installs that I have done I've found that you don't have to tap them. I believe it was a 7/32 drill that I used and the fittings would tap themselves into the arms, but you'll have to experiment a little to be sure. Here's the link.

Polyurethane bushing grease fitting install - Nissan Road Racing Forums

[Def]

I also echo the "it doesn't matter the color of the urethane bushing." The black ones seem just as grabby as the red, and both need CONSTANT greasing. Even compared to well greased urethane bushings the sphericals make a huge difference in ride quality and predictability of the car, but they obviously cost more.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

do note though that spherical will requires more maintenance as has been pointed out
I clean them up with lubricant every other month or so

what do you do for cleaning? Just spray them with the arms still connected?

[az_240]

I think the newer black bushings are different. Old black bushings could be the same as red. These new black bushings I got seem to have more of a slick surface.... I tested the red bushings against the newer black ones (after install in a vice...both were brand new) and it's clear that the black ones don't need as much force to get them moving.

I worry about spraying quality sphericals with lube since most are lined and I have no idea how well the lining can handle certain chemicals in these lubes... also lube attracts dirt.

I normally just wipe the bearings clean (this is on adjustable arms) when I get a chance... no rust and haven't had any problems with play or freezing yet after owning them for a couple of years.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

what do you do for cleaning? Just spray them with the arms still connected?

yes, wipe the dust and grime out
use q-tips on hard to reach spots
make sure they rotate freely and that there isn't any play
the bearings themselves are usually good since they are teflon coated and self clean

[Def]

You really shouldn't spray anything on PTFE lined spherical bearings. It attracts dirt and contributes to the liner wearing out earlier. They rotate very very freely after a short break in period if they're not a POS Chinese bearing that's straked way too tight.

[ManoNegra]

I use LPS stuff, supposed resit dust build up

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

I use LPS stuff, supposed resit dust build up

this one?
LPS 1 Greaseless Premium Lubricant

[ManoNegra]

That'll do.

[Wookie384]

Regarding the Energy Suspension debate:

This is what I was told by their R&D guy, back when I had Energy Suspension R&D the bushings on my Scion xB and my buddys S14.

The black ones are graphite impregnated, the red ones are not. The black ones are meant to have a slightly longer life because they are graphite impregnated, but just because they are urethane bushings they are not indestructible, their life span will depend on use and maintenance. He also said they used to sell them in various colors but they cut down production to just red and black, they kept the red stayed because of demand for the red ones.

What he said totally makes sense, I still went ahead and had him put red ones all over my car, just so I could see which bushings were replaced and which were not, I also had the benefit of having the ones installed in my car of a higher durometer. Those bushings were installed back in 2006 and only now are the bushings to my sway bar end-links drying up, everything else is still fine.

[mr.man.performance]

I have the SPL's for my S13 uprights. There was an immediate change in feel after you got them on (vs stock). Not too much more noise than what I already had but my entire rear is set up with PBM stuff, to include their subframe riser, so it was already pretty noisy to begin with. I can't speak for their durability yet. I just got these guys in. I can say that after a few passes in the mountains, I'm happy with them.

Side note: Pressing them in was a bitch. i tried using a 3 in 1 and I got one in 3/4 of the way...I had to take it to my bud with a hydraulic press. It took 700lbs of pressure to push that one the rest of the way in. The press made quick work of the others though.