3rd gear hell! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*DSC* · 01-30-2002, 09:41 PM

I know lots of us 240 people have trouble with 3rd gear. what is it? I shift from 2nd to 3rd and its like I just hit a wall, it doesn't go in gear, I have to back it out (into neutral, clutch still in) and push it back in. If i'm shifting really fast i'll let my clutch out and just grind the #### out of it trying to get into 3rd. I just can't take it anymore. I cannot enjoy driving my car if I can't shift smoothly. It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob. My car is a 96 s14 with ~52,000 miles. Please help...

jay · 01-30-2002, 09:51 PM

I have the same problem, especially when i was racing. Now, I just jam the #### thing in gear if i am shifting fast. I know its not for the tranny but I am getting my SR motor in four months so whatever.

luke20 · 01-30-2002, 09:52 PM

Mine's a 91 240 FB, and it does exactly the same thing.  It's really shitty.  I kinda thought the third gear syncro was shot, because that's what I went through with my civic (integra LS tranny).  But I know what you mean about it feeling like you're hitting a wall.  You sort of have to hold it against third gear and let it pop in itself.  Or you'll grind.  I would really like to know what causes that.  Have you had any clutch problems, too?  

chickenmanq · 01-30-2002, 09:52 PM

I've found third gear can only be attained when 2nd is close to redline, or not close.  There doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground.  Are you shifting by letting up on the clutch pedal as you push it into gear?  I don't know if that qualifies as speed shifting, but it's how I've always shifted.  I don't let the clutch sit disengaged while I'm shifting.  I just press clutch, flip it through to the next gear as I'm engaging the clutch.  So really, the gear is already sort of spinning when I stick it in.  However, it's spinning slow, so it doesn't grind.  Don't know if that helped.

240meowth · 01-30-2002, 10:44 PM

do it old fashion style man, double clutch!

or, i've also heard that the redline tranny fluid is really good "i highly recomand this (holding a bottle of redline tranny fluid in his hand), my car don't grind in 3rd gear anymore."  from some guy called Drew, mrmigs's friend who has a 95 or 96 gold or cream 240.

*DSC* · 01-30-2002, 11:09 PM

I just don't see how good tranny fluid would stop this problem. If it was just a little stiff I could understand, but it just dosen't go in at all. Even when I really push hard it won't go in, just have to back it out and slip it in.

rampid360 · 01-31-2002, 08:32 AM

I'm driving a 95 s14, but havent experienced many problems yet...so you'll find most of my replies are based on my old car (an 89 z24...)  But i did have a similar problem.  I thought syncro too, but i just bled the clutch and it seemed to solve it.   Simple enough to be worth a shot i suppose

BadMoJo · 01-31-2002, 01:21 PM

My tranny just doesnt like to go into gear when its cold, I double clutch until it warms up. Once its warm I have no problems. It usually takes a couple minutes to get warm.

(Edited by BadMoJo at 12:22 pm on Jan. 31, 2002)

240 2NR · 01-31-2002, 04:50 PM

From what I recall, part of this is caused by having a direct linkage transmission.  We shift with a metal rod so unlike a cable shift you feel the vibration etc transmitted with the shift.  At about 50k miles you're about due for fluid change anyway.  I suppose it is possible you have a bad synchro, or one that is a little worn and made worse by the direct linkage.  Also, do you have an aftermarket shifter or shift knob?  I believe the stocker is counterweighted to reduce the shock that accompanies a third gear shift and helps it to slide right in.  Mine gives me a little feed back sometimes, but not to the point I would worry about it.  

If its that bad, double clutch unimportant shifts for a while and get some good tranny fluid like Amsoil or redline.  If that don't work, you may have problems.

*DSC* · 01-31-2002, 05:19 PM

From my inital post. "It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob."
What would cause the tranny or syncros to be worn at 52,000 miles? I'll try to get some good tranny fluid in this weekend I guess.
Also, it doesn't do it every time I go into 3rd just every now and then. Sometimes it will slip into gear but give a quick grind sound (probably my fault on that one)
My problem is mostly at high rpm but sometimes when I'm shifting at 4,000 or so too.

chickenmanq · 01-31-2002, 07:48 PM

Have you owned it since it was new?  Maybe someone kept trying to stick in in 3rd going 90?  Or learned to drive on it and killed 3rd?

*DSC* · 01-31-2002, 08:05 PM

I bought it 9,000 miles ago (5 months) and I learned to drive manual on it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> but I never messed up bad. Just the standard grind here, stall there. It's not seen the revlimiter since i've owned it, haven't even takein it over 85 yet. maybe the previous owner (who bought it newish...2k miles, dealers car) messed it up. I dono though, there are alot of people who say they have troubles with this gear. I was kinda thinking it was something simple...I guess not <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

EDIT: I've been driving stick for 5 months (as stated above) do you think my trouble could be a lack of experiance? I don't see how it could be, but I'm just hoping that I really suck and nothings broken <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Any way I could just be shifting bad? Hitting the edge of the slot instead of going head on? *shrugs* any ideas?

(Edited by DSC at 8:29 pm on Jan. 31, 2002)

*sykikchimp* · 01-31-2002, 08:57 PM

well, obviously they would not produce the car that way, so it has to be repairable.  I would say take it by your local nissan dealership and ask them to check it out for you and see what they think.  

Sounds like a worn synchro to me.  Also, how is your clutch?if your going liek 25, put it in fifth an accelerate up to about 50 or so with your foot in the floor.  Any slippage?  Do you have to put the clutch in the floor to shift?

*transient* · 02-01-2002, 10:37 AM

I'd say bleed the clutch, and change the tranny oil first. That'd be the cheapest, and hopefully your problem is solved there. Otherwise, I'm guessing it would be a synchro.

The Punk Genius · 02-01-2002, 12:43 PM

Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters?

The Punk Genius · 02-01-2002, 02:18 PM

The reason I ask is....I was told from a very reliable source not to mess with the stock shifter, because it will throw off the syncros in the tranny. I never knew wether to believe it or not....but after reading this thread I am starting to lean to believeing it.

luke20 · 02-01-2002, 03:25 PM

Mine's a 91, with a KA24DE, and a stock shifter.  It grinds third gear, too.  But then again, I have reason to believe there're 226,000 miles on it and the previous owner beat the shit out of it for all those.  

*DSC* · 02-01-2002, 04:32 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Punk Genius on 12:43 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Heh, again from my inital post in this topic...
"It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob."

Also, how do you bleed the clutch?

(Edited by DSC at 4:37 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

The Punk Genius · 02-02-2002, 09:17 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 4:32 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Punk Genius on 12:43 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Heh, again from my inital post in this topic...
"It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob."

Also, how do you bleed the clutch?

(Edited by DSC at 4:37 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I read your post. What I was trying to determine is if yours was an isolated incident, or if others were having the same problem with and without the weighted knob, and with or without the shifter change.

*DSC* · 02-02-2002, 11:26 AM

Oh, my bad...thought you just didn't read it. There is a topic on NICO with a lot of people haveing smilar problems but nobody knows what it is.

240racer · 02-02-2002, 02:08 PM

when I first got my '89 the shifting was pretty notchy and didn't go into gears nicely.  I changed out the fliud (redline MT-90) and now it is much better.  Don't know if this will help your specific situation, sounds like your syncros might be pretty worn, but it should help most people that aren't happy with their shifting.  If you double clutch that saves wear on the syncros, because that overrides them.

01-30-2002, 09:41 PM	#1
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I know lots of us 240 people have trouble with 3rd gear. what is it? I shift from 2nd to 3rd and its like I just hit a wall, it doesn't go in gear, I have to back it out (into neutral, clutch still in) and push it back in. If i'm shifting really fast i'll let my clutch out and just grind the #### out of it trying to get into 3rd. I just can't take it anymore. I cannot enjoy driving my car if I can't shift smoothly. It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob. My car is a 96 s14 with ~52,000 miles. Please help...

01-30-2002, 09:51 PM	#2
jay Zilvia Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 205 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have the same problem, especially when i was racing. Now, I just jam the #### thing in gear if i am shifting fast. I know its not for the tranny but I am getting my SR motor in four months so whatever.

01-30-2002, 09:52 PM	#3
luke20 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 68 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Mine's a 91 240 FB, and it does exactly the same thing.  It's really shitty.  I kinda thought the third gear syncro was shot, because that's what I went through with my civic (integra LS tranny).  But I know what you mean about it feeling like you're hitting a wall.  You sort of have to hold it against third gear and let it pop in itself.  Or you'll grind.  I would really like to know what causes that.  Have you had any clutch problems, too?

01-30-2002, 09:52 PM	#4
chickenmanq Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,000 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've found third gear can only be attained when 2nd is close to redline, or not close.  There doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground.  Are you shifting by letting up on the clutch pedal as you push it into gear?  I don't know if that qualifies as speed shifting, but it's how I've always shifted.  I don't let the clutch sit disengaged while I'm shifting.  I just press clutch, flip it through to the next gear as I'm engaging the clutch.  So really, the gear is already sort of spinning when I stick it in.  However, it's spinning slow, so it doesn't grind.  Don't know if that helped.

01-30-2002, 10:44 PM	#5
240meowth Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: torrance, ca Age: 41 Posts: 2,407 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	do it old fashion style man, double clutch! or, i've also heard that the redline tranny fluid is really good "i highly recomand this (holding a bottle of redline tranny fluid in his hand), my car don't grind in 3rd gear anymore."  from some guy called Drew, mrmigs's friend who has a 95 or 96 gold or cream 240.

01-30-2002, 11:09 PM	#6
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I just don't see how good tranny fluid would stop this problem. If it was just a little stiff I could understand, but it just dosen't go in at all. Even when I really push hard it won't go in, just have to back it out and slip it in.

01-31-2002, 08:32 AM	#7
rampid360 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 328 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm driving a 95 s14, but havent experienced many problems yet...so you'll find most of my replies are based on my old car (an 89 z24...)  But i did have a similar problem.  I thought syncro too, but i just bled the clutch and it seemed to solve it.   Simple enough to be worth a shot i suppose

01-31-2002, 01:21 PM	#8
BadMoJo Nissanaholic! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo, Ca Age: 43 Posts: 1,931 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My tranny just doesnt like to go into gear when its cold, I double clutch until it warms up. Once its warm I have no problems. It usually takes a couple minutes to get warm. (Edited by BadMoJo at 12:22 pm on Jan. 31, 2002)

01-31-2002, 04:50 PM	#9
240 2NR Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,131 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	From what I recall, part of this is caused by having a direct linkage transmission.  We shift with a metal rod so unlike a cable shift you feel the vibration etc transmitted with the shift.  At about 50k miles you're about due for fluid change anyway.  I suppose it is possible you have a bad synchro, or one that is a little worn and made worse by the direct linkage.  Also, do you have an aftermarket shifter or shift knob?  I believe the stocker is counterweighted to reduce the shock that accompanies a third gear shift and helps it to slide right in.  Mine gives me a little feed back sometimes, but not to the point I would worry about it.   If its that bad, double clutch unimportant shifts for a while and get some good tranny fluid like Amsoil or redline.  If that don't work, you may have problems.

01-31-2002, 05:19 PM	#10
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	From my inital post. "It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob." What would cause the tranny or syncros to be worn at 52,000 miles? I'll try to get some good tranny fluid in this weekend I guess. Also, it doesn't do it every time I go into 3rd just every now and then. Sometimes it will slip into gear but give a quick grind sound (probably my fault on that one) My problem is mostly at high rpm but sometimes when I'm shifting at 4,000 or so too.

01-31-2002, 07:48 PM	#11
chickenmanq Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,000 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Have you owned it since it was new?  Maybe someone kept trying to stick in in 3rd going 90?  Or learned to drive on it and killed 3rd?

01-31-2002, 08:05 PM	#12
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I bought it 9,000 miles ago (5 months) and I learned to drive manual on it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> but I never messed up bad. Just the standard grind here, stall there. It's not seen the revlimiter since i've owned it, haven't even takein it over 85 yet. maybe the previous owner (who bought it newish...2k miles, dealers car) messed it up. I dono though, there are alot of people who say they have troubles with this gear. I was kinda thinking it was something simple...I guess not <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> EDIT: I've been driving stick for 5 months (as stated above) do you think my trouble could be a lack of experiance? I don't see how it could be, but I'm just hoping that I really suck and nothings broken <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Any way I could just be shifting bad? Hitting the edge of the slot instead of going head on? shrugs any ideas? (Edited by DSC at 8:29 pm on Jan. 31, 2002)

01-31-2002, 08:57 PM	#13
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 44 Posts: 6,525 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well, obviously they would not produce the car that way, so it has to be repairable.  I would say take it by your local nissan dealership and ask them to check it out for you and see what they think.   Sounds like a worn synchro to me.  Also, how is your clutch?if your going liek 25, put it in fifth an accelerate up to about 50 or so with your foot in the floor.  Any slippage?  Do you have to put the clutch in the floor to shift?

02-01-2002, 10:37 AM	#14
transient Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Los Angeles, California Age: 41 Posts: 2,947 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'd say bleed the clutch, and change the tranny oil first. That'd be the cheapest, and hopefully your problem is solved there. Otherwise, I'm guessing it would be a synchro.

02-01-2002, 12:43 PM	#15
The Punk Genius Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 136 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters?

02-01-2002, 02:18 PM	#16
The Punk Genius Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 136 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The reason I ask is....I was told from a very reliable source not to mess with the stock shifter, because it will throw off the syncros in the tranny. I never knew wether to believe it or not....but after reading this thread I am starting to lean to believeing it.

02-01-2002, 03:25 PM	#17
luke20 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 68 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Mine's a 91, with a KA24DE, and a stock shifter.  It grinds third gear, too.  But then again, I have reason to believe there're 226,000 miles on it and the previous owner beat the shit out of it for all those.

02-01-2002, 04:32 PM	#18
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Punk Genius on 12:43 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Heh, again from my inital post in this topic... "It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob." Also, how do you bleed the clutch? (Edited by DSC at 4:37 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

02-02-2002, 09:17 AM	#19
The Punk Genius Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 136 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 4:32 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Punk Genius on 12:43 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 Are the only people having trouble shifting, the ones with short throw shifters? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Heh, again from my inital post in this topic... "It did it before and after my short shifter install and with and without a weighted shift knob." Also, how do you bleed the clutch? (Edited by DSC at 4:37 pm on Feb. 1, 2002) </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I read your post. What I was trying to determine is if yours was an isolated incident, or if others were having the same problem with and without the weighted knob, and with or without the shifter change.

02-02-2002, 11:26 AM	#20
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Oh, my bad...thought you just didn't read it. There is a topic on NICO with a lot of people haveing smilar problems but nobody knows what it is.

02-02-2002, 02:08 PM	#21
240racer Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 46 Posts: 574 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	when I first got my '89 the shifting was pretty notchy and didn't go into gears nicely.  I changed out the fliud (redline MT-90) and now it is much better.  Don't know if this will help your specific situation, sounds like your syncros might be pretty worn, but it should help most people that aren't happy with their shifting.  If you double clutch that saves wear on the syncros, because that overrides them.