Gauging interest - EVO 8/9 Twin scroll Turbo Exhaust Manifold - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

JohnC · 10-24-2006, 03:40 AM

Hi.

I am having a shop make me an exhaust manifold so I can
get a evo 8/9 twin scroll top mounted on my car. I know exactly what these turbos can do.
I have an HKS gt-ss sitting around with cams and
more waiting to be installed but due to the fact that I have
a spare longblock they can work on I will wait and see what can be done. There
is a thread on FA regarding this exact issue and it generated
a lot of interest. I even had my friend contact full-race about
them doing this but they require, as they should, the car
to be at their location which for me is not really an option.
The shop making this is manufacturing and exporting many xhaust
manifolds for EU cars and hondas. They only use thick SS of
the higher grade which I cant recall what it is at this time.
the manifold will be constructed to keep the true twin scroll functionality
otherwise it will not be worth the trouble. The shop does not mass produce.
They are very quality minded.
So who wants a twinscroll turbo with amazing spool up and near 400hp
capability for their SR?
Just to let you know, if you do not, a new EVO 8 turbo costs just $549!!!
An EVO 9 turbo with 10.5 turbine housing upgrade is only 899$!!!!
I do not think that can be beat, as far as turbos go , for spool up and power
potential all in one. I would go for a Evo 9 turbo since it is better in every way.

Tell me what you think.

RalliartRsX · 10-24-2006, 04:26 AM

This would be a fun option. You could possibly bolt up the evo 6 TME turbo as well as its basically the same design except it has a few features like titanium impellers and such. These have relatively low mileage used as well and offer great potential. I am sure they could be had used for the 450+ range

Hmmm, I think yoiu might be onto something

JohnC · 10-24-2006, 04:36 AM

I have an evo 8 turbo with 2k miles and a new evo 9 turbo to choose from.
Since the evo 9 already has better spool up and flow up top I will probably
be using that. I would rather get a new turbo at this point. I can always upgrade
it to TME later or just buy a new one with that option and sell my stock one.
Thanks for the suggestion.
The guy on FA that started this deservse the credit for thinking about it.
Thread is here: EVO VIII twin scroll turbo on an SR20DET.
Pictures on the last page are on a CA shouldnt be much of a difference.

dans · 10-24-2006, 06:17 AM

So this will be for a Ka-T kit?

SimpleS14 · 10-24-2006, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dans

So this will be for a Ka-T kit?

I'm going to say 'no' because he doesn't have the KA where he lives.

s13silvia123 · 10-24-2006, 08:27 AM

well i was reading and following up on this if those turbos from the evo 8 and 9 is able to produce anywhere from 300 to 450 hp. the madgnitude of the spool up evo 8 and 9 turbo would compare to as what to the turbo's you've seen to the bolt on's we buy. what is the difference.

JohnC · 10-24-2006, 09:16 AM

Correct, this will be for the SR20DET.

The spoolup will should be right about where the s15 bb spools up but the
response should be better and yes 400hp on 93 is a posibility.
I do not know of a turbo that spools like a s15 and has power output
ability of an 2871 with .82. If such a bolt on turbo exists, please let me know.
I am not being sarcastic but truely asking. I have had my fair share of turbo
charged cars over the past 13 years. every twin scroll equipped car I had was
amazingly responsive. I had the STI Spec C turbo on my wrx. The setup
gave me the power of an STI turbo with the low down spoolup and response
of the stock wrx "mini"turbo. As for the EVo turbos, all I can say is get in an
evo 9 with some bolt ons and feel what I am talking about. Boost on demand
really exists with that setup. Yes it is the complete package that makes it
so responsive but I am not just doing the turbo. The cams are being upgraded,
the HG will give a 8.75 CR and the header will be made to fully utilize the turbos
twin scroll fuction. Think about it this way:
Full race mani- atleast $900 (worth it, even have one on the way for the evo).
GT2871 - atleast $1000.
This will get you to the same peak power levels but in no way will you be close
to stock spoolup and lowend responsivnes of the t25 or s15bb.
Evo 9 turbo - 900 and even less.
Exhaust mani - let us say $1000. (not a real price , just to keep things "even")
add oil water lines and a couple of custom pipes for a couple hundred more.
Now, would you spend a few more dollars to retain bottom end response with
a proven 400hp capability of the evo 9 turbo? I am. :-)
If outright power is all one wants, just buy a bolt on , bigger turbo aand your done.
If one want best of both worlds, this might be the way to do it.
I will be dynoing the car with current setup. I will dyno the car with poncams and HG.
Then I will dyno the car with the new manifold and turbo.
If this works I beleive this will be a great setup. If not, well I will just put my HKS GT-SS
in with the tomei manifold I have and be done with it.

OptionZero · 10-24-2006, 09:57 AM

Sounds badass. Makes me want an SR =P

blackflag_Rms13 · 10-24-2006, 06:46 PM

I remember that thread on FreshAlloy, the DentSport car has one, definitely sounds like a good idea...

staygold24 · 10-24-2006, 07:31 PM

Id be down. With all the bolt ons the evos are still putting down around 350awhp right? or is it around 380 with the cams? if using a good equal lenght manifold and greddy or similar style inatke manifold you think itll produce around 400? or the turbo alone without the intake manifold and cams?

Edit: also dont the evo guys run around 26 psi for that kind of power? Im pretty sure they have stronger internals and I would not want to push that many pounds to achieve that kind of power.

chibo · 10-24-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staygold24

Id be down. With all the bolt ons the evos are still putting down around 350awhp right? or is it around 380 with the cams? if using a good equal lenght manifold and greddy or similar style inatke manifold you think itll produce around 400? or the turbo alone without the intake manifold and cams?

Edit: also dont the evo guys run around 26 psi for that kind of power? Im pretty sure they have stronger internals and I would not want to push that many pounds to achieve that kind of power.

Keep in mind that the Evo runs 19psi stock as well.

I think after selling my SR Hatch in May it's time for a new beast.

240trainee · 10-24-2006, 10:43 PM

I have been thinking about this for a while now for my CA, sounds like it could be cool if done right.

Aoshi112 · 10-25-2006, 12:19 AM

i want one. i've been looking into mitsu turbos for my sr20det for some time now but i've always wanted to take advantage of the twin scroll function.

JohnC · 10-25-2006, 12:22 AM

My friends Evo 9 with just exhaust, filter and tune
puts down 403 hp on 93oct and that is at 1.5-1.6 bar. 21-23 psi.
keep in mind that drivetrain loss for the evo is around 23%.
That translates to roughly 310awhp. Push 23 psi on the same turbo,
theoreticaly creating the same power, on our cars and the translates
to 333whp assuming a 17% loss. To achieve the same whp figure as
the evo you will be running around 19 psi. The evo 8 will not produce
the same hp figure at same boost pressures. Smaller turbine housing,
no MIVEC, and a different cam layout all contribute to around a 10%
less power at the same modification level.

Evos run 19psi stock? I have an 8 and it was around 16 psi. The 9 was
also 16 psi and I have been in about 15 evos with different mod levels.
But pressure as we know is not the whole story. the evos ignition maps are
very retarted and the fuel map is very rich. One friend kept 1.2 bar as his
boost level and just playing with the maps, on evo 9, had a 50hp increase
in hp with just an exhaust and tune.

JohnC · 10-25-2006, 12:41 AM

head to mani gasket are off to the shop to create the flange.
Mani to turbo flange is ready and turbo to elbow flanges is ready.

chibo · 10-25-2006, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnC

Evos run 19psi stock? I have an 8 and it was around 16 psi. The 9 was
also 16 psi and I have been in about 15 evos with different mod levels.
But pressure as we know is not the whole story. the evos ignition maps are
very retarted and the fuel map is very rich. One friend kept 1.2 bar as his
boost level and just playing with the maps, on evo 9, had a 50hp increase
in hp with just an exhaust and tune.

My Evo 9 at least - it hits 19psi and drops to 16 as you approach the redline.

RalliartRsX · 10-25-2006, 04:32 AM

Thats what I thought above as well?? Been around evos for a while and I thought it made around 19 psi and tappered off to 16 or less around redline to liability and engine 'reliability'?? But, lets not talk about that. Everyone can look it up on the net (look at Sport Compact Cars' project car garage)

Quick question John, how do you equate those numbers considering that two engines have a bit different spec (bore, stroke, head flow properties, etc.)?? I guess thats more of a ball park figure??

But keep this thread alive!!!

JohnC · 10-25-2006, 05:23 AM

The two engines being different is a factor that we are taking into account.
flow will be changed by installing poncams. Different stroke has come up in conversations
with an engineer but The best thing will be to wait and see.
I am hoping for the best but only real numbers will tell the story.

Chibo,
Is you EVO 9 completely stock? I am sure we agree that 19psi on a tuned,
freeflowing exhaust equipped car will produce more power and tq
then a stock one.. 23psi on a 9 turbo is daily practice for tuned Evo so You will not really be pushing the turbo too much.

chibo · 10-25-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnC

Chibo,
Is you EVO 9 completely stock? I am sure we agree that 19psi on a tuned,
freeflowing exhaust equipped car will produce more power and tq
then a stock one.. 23psi on a 9 turbo is daily practice for tuned Evo so You will not really be pushing the turbo too much.

Yeah, stock except an exedy clutch and lightened flywheel. Oh, I totally agree with you, I can't wait to see how these do on an SR20. I'm currently trying to decide between an E36 M3 or another 240.

Aoshi112 · 10-25-2006, 07:57 PM

what's the pricing going to be like?

RalliartRsX · 10-25-2006, 09:23 PM

I think pricing is going to mostly depend on custom exhaust mani, turbo lines and downpipe/outpipe................

JohnC · 10-25-2006, 11:57 PM

Pricing as Ralliartrsx said will depend on the components.
No pricing yet but it will be available as a kit which
will include The Header, Turbo, water/oil lines, Intake pipe,
hot pipe, elbow and downpipe. The biggest unknown is the pricing
of the manifold. For the other components you can use references
from other products being sold individually. You can get the compnents
made up by yourself and maybe save a little.

10-24-2006, 03:40 AM	#1
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Gauging interest - EVO 8/9 Twin scroll Turbo Exhaust Manifold Hi. I am having a shop make me an exhaust manifold so I can get a evo 8/9 twin scroll top mounted on my car. I know exactly what these turbos can do. I have an HKS gt-ss sitting around with cams and more waiting to be installed but due to the fact that I have a spare longblock they can work on I will wait and see what can be done. There is a thread on FA regarding this exact issue and it generated a lot of interest. I even had my friend contact full-race about them doing this but they require, as they should, the car to be at their location which for me is not really an option. The shop making this is manufacturing and exporting many xhaust manifolds for EU cars and hondas. They only use thick SS of the higher grade which I cant recall what it is at this time. the manifold will be constructed to keep the true twin scroll functionality otherwise it will not be worth the trouble. The shop does not mass produce. They are very quality minded. So who wants a twinscroll turbo with amazing spool up and near 400hp capability for their SR? Just to let you know, if you do not, a new EVO 8 turbo costs just $549!!! An EVO 9 turbo with 10.5 turbine housing upgrade is only 899$!!!! I do not think that can be beat, as far as turbos go , for spool up and power potential all in one. I would go for a Evo 9 turbo since it is better in every way. Tell me what you think. __________________ JY Racing LTD. Last edited by JohnC; 10-24-2006 at 04:09 AM..

10-24-2006, 04:36 AM	#3
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have an evo 8 turbo with 2k miles and a new evo 9 turbo to choose from. Since the evo 9 already has better spool up and flow up top I will probably be using that. I would rather get a new turbo at this point. I can always upgrade it to TME later or just buy a new one with that option and sell my stock one. Thanks for the suggestion. The guy on FA that started this deservse the credit for thinking about it. Thread is here: EVO VIII twin scroll turbo on an SR20DET. Pictures on the last page are on a CA shouldnt be much of a difference. __________________ JY Racing LTD.

10-24-2006, 08:27 AM	#6
s13silvia123 Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: where waldo is Age: 43 Posts: 3,267 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	well i was reading and following up on this if those turbos from the evo 8 and 9 is able to produce anywhere from 300 to 450 hp. the madgnitude of the spool up evo 8 and 9 turbo would compare to as what to the turbo's you've seen to the bolt on's we buy. what is the difference. __________________ 18g and 20g turbo users click on me http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/261219-18g-20g-turbo-users.html

10-24-2006, 09:16 AM	#7
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Correct, this will be for the SR20DET. The spoolup will should be right about where the s15 bb spools up but the response should be better and yes 400hp on 93 is a posibility. I do not know of a turbo that spools like a s15 and has power output ability of an 2871 with .82. If such a bolt on turbo exists, please let me know. I am not being sarcastic but truely asking. I have had my fair share of turbo charged cars over the past 13 years. every twin scroll equipped car I had was amazingly responsive. I had the STI Spec C turbo on my wrx. The setup gave me the power of an STI turbo with the low down spoolup and response of the stock wrx "mini"turbo. As for the EVo turbos, all I can say is get in an evo 9 with some bolt ons and feel what I am talking about. Boost on demand really exists with that setup. Yes it is the complete package that makes it so responsive but I am not just doing the turbo. The cams are being upgraded, the HG will give a 8.75 CR and the header will be made to fully utilize the turbos twin scroll fuction. Think about it this way: Full race mani- atleast $900 (worth it, even have one on the way for the evo). GT2871 - atleast $1000. This will get you to the same peak power levels but in no way will you be close to stock spoolup and lowend responsivnes of the t25 or s15bb. Evo 9 turbo - 900 and even less. Exhaust mani - let us say $1000. (not a real price , just to keep things "even") add oil water lines and a couple of custom pipes for a couple hundred more. Now, would you spend a few more dollars to retain bottom end response with a proven 400hp capability of the evo 9 turbo? I am. :-) If outright power is all one wants, just buy a bolt on , bigger turbo aand your done. If one want best of both worlds, this might be the way to do it. I will be dynoing the car with current setup. I will dyno the car with poncams and HG. Then I will dyno the car with the new manifold and turbo. If this works I beleive this will be a great setup. If not, well I will just put my HKS GT-SS in with the tomei manifold I have and be done with it. __________________ JY Racing LTD.

10-24-2006, 10:43 PM	#12
240trainee Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 38 Posts: 3,861 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I have been thinking about this for a while now for my CA, sounds like it could be cool if done right. __________________ Team Pterodactyl SHARK ATTACK!!! LookoutDrift

10-24-2006, 04:26 AM	#2
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,793 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	This would be a fun option. You could possibly bolt up the evo 6 TME turbo as well as its basically the same design except it has a few features like titanium impellers and such. These have relatively low mileage used as well and offer great potential. I am sure they could be had used for the 450+ range Hmmm, I think yoiu might be onto something

10-24-2006, 06:17 AM	#4
dans Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Central Ohio Age: 54 Posts: 64 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So this will be for a Ka-T kit?

10-24-2006, 09:57 AM	#8
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 41 Posts: 6,263 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Sounds badass. Makes me want an SR =P

10-24-2006, 06:46 PM	#9
blackflag_Rms13 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,133 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I remember that thread on FreshAlloy, the DentSport car has one, definitely sounds like a good idea...

10-24-2006, 07:31 PM	#10
staygold24 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Simons Ga Posts: 673 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Id be down. With all the bolt ons the evos are still putting down around 350awhp right? or is it around 380 with the cams? if using a good equal lenght manifold and greddy or similar style inatke manifold you think itll produce around 400? or the turbo alone without the intake manifold and cams? Edit: also dont the evo guys run around 26 psi for that kind of power? Im pretty sure they have stronger internals and I would not want to push that many pounds to achieve that kind of power.

10-25-2006, 12:19 AM	#13
Aoshi112 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 620 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	i want one. i've been looking into mitsu turbos for my sr20det for some time now but i've always wanted to take advantage of the twin scroll function.

10-25-2006, 12:22 AM	#14
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My friends Evo 9 with just exhaust, filter and tune puts down 403 hp on 93oct and that is at 1.5-1.6 bar. 21-23 psi. keep in mind that drivetrain loss for the evo is around 23%. That translates to roughly 310awhp. Push 23 psi on the same turbo, theoreticaly creating the same power, on our cars and the translates to 333whp assuming a 17% loss. To achieve the same whp figure as the evo you will be running around 19 psi. The evo 8 will not produce the same hp figure at same boost pressures. Smaller turbine housing, no MIVEC, and a different cam layout all contribute to around a 10% less power at the same modification level. Evos run 19psi stock? I have an 8 and it was around 16 psi. The 9 was also 16 psi and I have been in about 15 evos with different mod levels. But pressure as we know is not the whole story. the evos ignition maps are very retarted and the fuel map is very rich. One friend kept 1.2 bar as his boost level and just playing with the maps, on evo 9, had a 50hp increase in hp with just an exhaust and tune. __________________ JY Racing LTD.

10-25-2006, 12:41 AM	#15
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	head to mani gasket are off to the shop to create the flange. Mani to turbo flange is ready and turbo to elbow flanges is ready. __________________ JY Racing LTD.

10-25-2006, 04:32 AM	#17
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,793 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	Thats what I thought above as well?? Been around evos for a while and I thought it made around 19 psi and tappered off to 16 or less around redline to liability and engine 'reliability'?? But, lets not talk about that. Everyone can look it up on the net (look at Sport Compact Cars' project car garage) Quick question John, how do you equate those numbers considering that two engines have a bit different spec (bore, stroke, head flow properties, etc.)?? I guess thats more of a ball park figure?? But keep this thread alive!!!

10-25-2006, 05:23 AM	#18
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The two engines being different is a factor that we are taking into account. flow will be changed by installing poncams. Different stroke has come up in conversations with an engineer but The best thing will be to wait and see. I am hoping for the best but only real numbers will tell the story. Chibo, Is you EVO 9 completely stock? I am sure we agree that 19psi on a tuned, freeflowing exhaust equipped car will produce more power and tq then a stock one.. 23psi on a 9 turbo is daily practice for tuned Evo so You will not really be pushing the turbo too much. __________________ JY Racing LTD.

10-25-2006, 07:57 PM	#20
Aoshi112 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 620 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	what's the pricing going to be like?

10-25-2006, 09:23 PM	#21
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,793 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	I think pricing is going to mostly depend on custom exhaust mani, turbo lines and downpipe/outpipe................

10-25-2006, 11:57 PM	#22
JohnC Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 335 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: JohnC Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Pricing as Ralliartrsx said will depend on the components. No pricing yet but it will be available as a kit which will include The Header, Turbo, water/oil lines, Intake pipe, hot pipe, elbow and downpipe. The biggest unknown is the pricing of the manifold. For the other components you can use references from other products being sold individually. You can get the compnents made up by yourself and maybe save a little. __________________ JY Racing LTD.