Bye bye roll cage hello frame injection?

[CKAMC]

So been hitting up the video collection, got a new one and the team goes to check out and interview the fokes at apex kyoto.

great vid blah blah...nice GTR...blah blah blah

then they go "this car does not feature a roll cage but urethane injected frame"

I was whats this guy talkin about?!?!?! but I look and yeah just like he says the rocker is shot up and he pulls out a canister about a liter or two in size and says "this is all it takes to do an entire car"

They didnt go that extensive into the whole deal and yet I want to know more... cost effective? yeah if you know what your doing... but how common is this?

IS THIS JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN A CAGE?

opinions/thoughts/flame-age... I like to hear back from all of yall, I find this to be rather interesting... because it really that good?

[Creizai]

Lots of cars have been doing this for years. Its to stiffin up the chassis and not so much for safety but it would be a really nice to do. Problem with my 240 is I have some Rust I would have to fix :P.

www.driftunit.com I think his name is Mark... He works with JDM Insider he brought some of those back and sold them to some people If I remember right.

[gotta240]

shit....fill me in as well.

Obviously it wont be as strong or safe as a cage.... I wonder if it is a decent middle ground for those who don't want to DD with a cage?

good find!

oh- i know some offroaders use spray foam in their frames in attempt to stiffen them. IIRC it does stiffen the frame, but many catch on fire because the exhaust heats it up to the point of combustion...

[flatblackdime]

funny you should mention...Just did a bit of foaming on my S13 last night. If done properly should yeild awesome results as far as chassis rigidity is concerned.

I too was curious so i did a lot of research into chassis foaming. Found that some spec miata guys do it. And a few DelSol/ EG chassis honda owners do it with what they described as awesome results. Then there was the SCC article on it a while back, great idea...poorly implemented.

Its all about the density of the foam you use. The SCC article used a gas charged delivery system using 2lb/ft^3 density foam. The stuff that everyone else I've read about doing it used at least a 6lb/ft^3 foam. Up to 15lb/ft^3 is available though.

Foaming probably isnt as good as a cage for safety in a race sort of situation. Its in my opinion a great alternative to caging for a street car. But probably best implemented with a cage as well. Foam will allow you to brace area's that a cage cant get to.

Links:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr..._300zx_part_5/

http://www.smooth-on.com/foams.asp

http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html

[LB.Motoring]

chassis rigidity yes.
saftey not really.

Used on many tuner/street based platforms which come out of tuner shops in japan.

[Wykydtron]

Originally Posted by Creizai

www.driftunit.com I think his name is Mark... He works with JDM Insider he brought some of those back and sold them to some people If I remember right.

Mark Arsenal, respect. I have a lot of respect for that guy, he does everything I dream about doing in the graphics design industry.

[randyjordan]

Yeah i saw that video too.

+1 for chassis rigidity

[CKAMC]

Yeah still waiting on part two of the video to finish downloading....

now that I think of it... makes sense why several months earlier when i was admiring DU's zenki and saw them write up on apex kyoto.... then in the video hiro was wearing one of their shirts...

conspiracy? coincidence?

Na just lag between video release and publication of write up/pictures

so far it looks like
increase rigidity = yes
increase safety = your insurance company wont cover you

[HyperTek]

u must be on jdm insider kansai adventure hahah

What are your plans with the car as far as driving style? stiffest chassis isnt always the best for handling.

[chmercer]

can trap water and hella rust your car out

[driftenthusiast]

And as for people saying this is an alternative to a cage, this has nothing to do with safety, it only makes the chassis more rigid.

[CKAMC]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

u must be on jdm insider kansai adventure hahah

What are your plans with the car as far as driving style? stiffest chassis isnt always the best for handling.

hahah yeah I am... been a while since i watched any car video's

I am tempted with drift but I aim for time attack to start with... grip is best for learning how to drive correctly before you decide to send your car to an early death(drift)

chmercer - good point... fusck rust...good o'le cage still wins... thats if you make it right 9thinks back to a few half-ass'd cages)

[fromxtor]

Turbo magazine had a write up on it, in one of the project RSX they were covering. Being as though the car was pretty new, I don't think the rusting problem was a concern as it was done by a pro. This would probably be a better idea if you wanted to stiffen your chassis for occasional events, and didnt want to buy a cusco roll cage which isnt SCCA or NASA approved.

[timtiminy]

I dont imagine the foam holding any moisture and causing rust, that is unless the moisture was already there and by foaming the chassis you trap it. I was looking into doing this on my newest s13 as it will be a little to time intesive for me to spot weld the chassis especially since it will be a DD with intent to take it out on the track.

[chmercer]

it absorbs water, so basically you need to weld closed any holes in the frame rails, side sills, whereever you put the foam, or your car will get fucked up

[scottie]

That type of foam will not hold moisture, atleast not near enough to cause rust. Seems like a good idea. I would make sure that the surface is clean and rust free as you wont be able to get to it later once its injected.

[Creizai]

Originally Posted by CKAMC

Yeah still waiting on part two of the video to finish downloading....

now that I think of it... makes sense why several months earlier when i was admiring DU's zenki and saw them write up on apex kyoto.... then in the video hiro was wearing one of their shirts...

conspiracy? coincidence?

Na just lag between video release and publication of write up/pictures

so far it looks like
increase rigidity = yes
increase safety = your insurance company wont cover you

It would still be better than having a rollcage on a daily driver. Personally I feel like rollcage on the street is just something I have to deal with since my Drift car is my Daily also. The main reason to have a cage for me is so I can drift at Mid-Ohio when I want to, too bad its out of my skill level still . If you had a SR20 that you really were not tracking at a place where a cage is required but you wanted to stiffin up the chassis and have your frame alot more sturdy then totally do it.

[projectRDM]

It traps moisture because there are OE drain holes along the rocker panels, below the kick panels, and in the lower quarter panels. This is where water from the sunroof drains, as well as moisture from defogging the car, etc. The doors have them too, just look along the bottom edge.
By filling the entire cavity solid with foam you end up blocking all those drain holes, trapping whatever moisture there is inside.

A lot of car manafacturers use it for sound deadening/sealing, but only in roof pillars and higher areas that aren't prone to pooling water. The floorboard/rockers aren't sealed with anything other than undercoating on the outside skin to prevent the above problem.

[gunluvS14]

there are drain holes along the rockers? are they drain tube? or water actually DRAINS into the rocker i wonder.

[~4N~]

They use it on this 300ZX.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...n_300zx_part_5

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by gunluvS14

there are drain holes along the rockers? are they drain tube? or water actually DRAINS into the rocker i wonder.

Open your sunroof and pour water along the edges, then go under the car, you'll see it pour out from various places.

[HyperTek]

I would think you just cover those areas where water would have chances of getting into the frame in the first place... If you live somewhere where there is low rain it might be ok.. but here in socal, we do get those frosty mornings so im sure moisture would build up.

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

I would think you just cover those areas where water would have chances of getting into the frame in the first place... If you live somewhere where there is low rain it might be ok.. but here in socal, we do get those frosty mornings so im sure moisture would build up.

You're missing the point, the moisture drains OUT of the car, not in. By filling the entire area the moisture would reside there's nowhere for it to go, so it sits and rots the rocker panel out from the inside. It's like a house with mold in the crawl space, the mold develops inside due to moisture, sealing holes to the outside will only speed up the damage since it can't breath.

[ViZion Zs]

i think foam is the wrong word for it.. the stuff that you are SUPPOSED to use for that kinda thing the race guys use dries hard.. it doesnt absorb water it actually blocks it just goes in as foam.. also a downside if you dont know what your doing and put it in a tight spot and put too much it can acutally POP out and break welds as it hardens up.. dont take foam so literally.. how would foam inside metal stiffen.. it has to grab and reduce the flex... and techically its a urethane product.

[S14DB]

If you use the stuff that is designed for frames it seals the frame and doesn't absorb water. Problem is cheap bastards use home insulating foam that absorbs water like crazy and doesn't stiffen one bit.

Who uses a sunroof? Isn't there a drain line for it?