Why does this work? (s15 helical related) - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

e1_griego · 03-22-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

My diff is NOT repeat NOT an s15 helical. It is from a Nissan, but apparently from a cedric/gloria. Those came with 29spline output shafts, but all s15 diffs require 30 spline!

Alex

I recently purchased an s15 helical (with output shafts) from a seller on ebay--got it for cheap too!

Went to a local shop to have it installed. After getting the internals all bolted in, it was time to put in the output shafts. One of the s15 ones had a bent lip, and was a tiny bit chewed up on the lip (looks like they were removed with a pry bar instead of a hammer--completely fixable though). In any event, we just stuff my open diff output shafts in, and they dropped right in and work fine!! This completely contradicts nearly everything I've read about the s15 helical.

(the dirtier output shaft is the stock open diff one)

So, what gives? The diff that was in it had recently changed fluid (at least it came out pretty clear looking). Both sets of output shafts fit the same way, with no forcing or anything at all. It's all bolted in and I've put nearly 1k miles on it since installed--no noises, no grinding, tons of grip. And what a sweet diff might I add!! Perfect for the driving I want to do (ie. not drift), silent, and gives great traction!

Just very curious as to why this works? The guys at the shop chalked it up to "don't believe anything/everything you read on the internet." I'm inclined to agree but it's all very interesting.

Thanks.

Alex

drew935 · 03-22-2007, 03:00 PM

If it works then you don't have to worry about it anymore right. So need to try to figure it out as to why it works. Nissan already did that R&D and is just not telling us. Now take a drive and have some fun.

e1_griego · 03-22-2007, 03:03 PM

Hahaha fair enough.

Curiosity killed the cat, right ?

Alex

*ManoNegra* · 03-22-2007, 03:13 PM

First time I hear of it too. Also curious to find out.

supad0rk · 03-22-2007, 03:24 PM

Yeah if your diff explodes in a few days for unknown reasons it would be nice to know, probably would be good for you to know ahead of time if its about to too. Just make sure that it in fact is working correctly and isnt doing anything it isn't supposed to.

Rittmeister · 03-22-2007, 03:28 PM

I actually tried my open-diff outputs in my S15 diff, and they did NOT fit. They were the same diameter as the S15 outputs, as far as I could tell but the spline count must have been different.

e1_griego · 03-22-2007, 03:30 PM

Yeah, that's what I thought.

That's why I was so confused.

I'll check the spline count on the output shafts when I get home.

Alex

Chrischeezer · 03-22-2007, 07:55 PM

does your car have HICAS?....
thoes axels look like hicas axles

GSXRJJordan · 03-22-2007, 08:02 PM

Hicas cars had VLSDs, those are open diff 6 bolt output shafts (not axles). Also suprised that it worked.

e1_griego · 03-22-2007, 08:58 PM

Yeah, just counted the splines on the hlsd output shafts--- 29 spline, not 30. They drop right into the open diff center section.

Weirdness.

Alex

swwifty · 03-23-2007, 06:19 AM

are you positive thats a S15 LSD?

FusionR240sx · 03-23-2007, 06:48 AM

hmmmmm. so far i like... i might try.

nlzmo400r · 03-23-2007, 07:28 AM

20bucks says you got a vlsd

orion::S14 · 03-23-2007, 07:50 AM

Doesn't look like a VLSD to me...

I'd bet it's a OBX helical...aren't those designed to work in a stock open diff housing?

That'd solve a coupld mysteries:

1) Why it was cheap

2) Why open diff output shafts work

- Brian

swwifty · 03-23-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nlzmo400r

20bucks says you got a vlsd

+1

when you had the diff out, could you see any little tiny gears through the holes in the side of the diff? That's the easiest way to identify a helical diff.

No noise or nothing? My S15 LSD has a nice high pitch whine above like 30-40+mph. Then again you may not hear that since I have all my interior stripped out.

e1_griego · 03-23-2007, 08:17 AM

YES! You could see the goddamned helical gears. Jesus, I'm not that much of a moron.

Plus, you can feel the car kick power to the outside wheel when it starts to spin the inside wheel.

It doesn't look at all like the obx diff either.

Obx:

My s15:

Someone else's s15:

It is most definitely a helical, and an s15 one at that. I picked it up from ebay-- here's the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5195837&rd=1,1

Alex

edit-- You're right, I do hear the faintest of whines, but only at 50 or 60+.

Oh, and here's another pic where you can actually see the gears:

jrbump · 03-23-2007, 08:33 AM

I was there when it was put in, saw the teeth myself.

Both the old and the new shafts popped right in.

This was done at unnatural inc in Beaverton by an experienced technician.

I was amazed myself as this contradicted all my "e-knowledge"

We need someone else to give it a try as well.

swwifty · 03-23-2007, 08:41 AM

interesting. I have no answer. I know that I had to use my outputs shaft with my s15 LSD though. Maybe you got some freak output shafts. I wonder if there are any other output shafts that will work with the S15 LSD other than the factory ones.

you got that LSD for really cheap, nice job!

he's selling another one on ebay for about $400 which is still hella cheap.

e1_griego · 03-23-2007, 08:44 AM

Yup, it was a steal, no doubt. Well worth twice the money, too.

Alex

R33GTS-T · 03-23-2007, 10:27 AM

i'm still curious as to how your open diff s13 6 bolts fit right in when nobody else has been able to get their s15 to work w/o running the s15 helical output shafts

if this isn't some kind of a factory fluke and everybody has just been wasted $250 or so on he s15 output shafts then i'm gettin my ass a new diff sooner than expected

- Daniel

sean350z · 03-23-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swwifty

No noise or nothing? My S15 LSD has a nice high pitch whine above like 30-40+mph. Then again you may not hear that since I have all my interior stripped out.

Yea so does my VLSD...and my interior isn't all stripped.

Were the bolts that hold the diff onto the ring different fitting than your open diff? I know that S15 diffs use a 13mm bolt and stock is something like 12mm.

e1_griego · 03-23-2007, 12:30 PM

I honestly wasn't concerned with the bolts, so I didn't really closely inspect it. It all seemed fine though.

Alex

e1_griego · 04-17-2007, 12:40 PM

Sorry to bump this, but I figured I'd update.

My diff is NOT repeat NOT an s15 helical. It is from a Nissan, but apparently from a cedric/gloria. Those came with 29spline output shafts, but all s15 diffs require 30 spline!

Alex

pbcstylez · 04-17-2007, 01:01 PM

thank you for the clarification!

DJ_Sunrise · 04-17-2007, 04:45 PM

is it a helical though?

-Bart

nlzmo400r · 04-19-2007, 08:00 AM

^^ wondering the same thing! Do the glorias come with an hlsd that would work with stock 29spline shafts?

e1_griego · 04-20-2007, 01:25 AM

Apparently so. It is most definitely a helical-- as I pointed out earlier, you can see the ends of the gears sticking out, just like the s15. It's not a vlsd (for the 10th time !!

). 100% sure it's a helical.

I've had two different people tell me now about the existence of this diff (after the fact and all the confusion). Hopefully someone here can confirm since I'm striking out on google with better facts/details. As soon as I found out better info, I'll post it up.

But it is definitely a helical.

Alex

edit: are the pictures not showing up?

03-22-2007, 03:00 PM	#2
drew935 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Silver Creek - San Jose Posts: 996 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If it works then you don't have to worry about it anymore right. So need to try to figure it out as to why it works. Nissan already did that R&D and is just not telling us. Now take a drive and have some fun. __________________ I'm driving fast -drew

03-22-2007, 03:28 PM	#6
Rittmeister Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cincinnati OH Age: 48 Posts: 1,033 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	I actually tried my open-diff outputs in my S15 diff, and they did NOT fit. They were the same diameter as the S15 outputs, as far as I could tell but the spline count must have been different. __________________ E36 M3 - new project 1990 240SR - screamed down the road

03-22-2007, 07:55 PM	#8
Chrischeezer Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: earth Age: 41 Posts: 1,406 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	does your car have HICAS?.... thoes axels look like hicas axles __________________

03-22-2007, 08:02 PM	#9
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Hicas cars had VLSDs, those are open diff 6 bolt output shafts (not axles). Also suprised that it worked. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

03-23-2007, 07:28 AM	#13
nlzmo400r Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: louisiana Posts: 1,248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	20bucks says you got a vlsd __________________ 'my drinking team has a racing problem' [email protected] - gt32 .6bar

03-22-2007, 03:03 PM	#3
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Hahaha fair enough. Curiosity killed the cat, right ? Alex

03-22-2007, 03:13 PM	#4
ManoNegra Guild of Skullduggerous Intent Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Socal Posts: 7,841 Trader Rating: (48) Feedback Score: 48 reviews	First time I hear of it too. Also curious to find out.

03-22-2007, 03:24 PM	#5
supad0rk Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saaaan Hoooo, CA Posts: 284 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah if your diff explodes in a few days for unknown reasons it would be nice to know, probably would be good for you to know ahead of time if its about to too. Just make sure that it in fact is working correctly and isnt doing anything it isn't supposed to.

03-22-2007, 03:30 PM	#7
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Yeah, that's what I thought. That's why I was so confused. I'll check the spline count on the output shafts when I get home. Alex

03-22-2007, 08:58 PM	#10
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Yeah, just counted the splines on the hlsd output shafts--- 29 spline, not 30. They drop right into the open diff center section. Weirdness. Alex

03-23-2007, 06:19 AM	#11
swwifty Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 197 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	are you positive thats a S15 LSD?

03-23-2007, 07:50 AM	#14
orion::S14 Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,666 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Doesn't look like a VLSD to me... I'd bet it's a OBX helical...aren't those designed to work in a stock open diff housing? That'd solve a coupld mysteries: 1) Why it was cheap 2) Why open diff output shafts work - Brian __________________ www.KA24DEvelopment.com

03-23-2007, 08:17 AM	#16
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	YES! You could see the goddamned helical gears. Jesus, I'm not that much of a moron. Plus, you can feel the car kick power to the outside wheel when it starts to spin the inside wheel. It doesn't look at all like the obx diff either. Obx: My s15: Someone else's s15: It is most definitely a helical, and an s15 one at that. I picked it up from ebay-- here's the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5195837&rd=1,1 Alex edit-- You're right, I do hear the faintest of whines, but only at 50 or 60+. Oh, and here's another pic where you can actually see the gears:

03-23-2007, 08:33 AM	#17
jrbump Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 663 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I was there when it was put in, saw the teeth myself. Both the old and the new shafts popped right in. This was done at unnatural inc in Beaverton by an experienced technician. I was amazed myself as this contradicted all my "e-knowledge" We need someone else to give it a try as well.

03-23-2007, 08:41 AM	#18
swwifty Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 197 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	interesting. I have no answer. I know that I had to use my outputs shaft with my s15 LSD though. Maybe you got some freak output shafts. I wonder if there are any other output shafts that will work with the S15 LSD other than the factory ones. you got that LSD for really cheap, nice job! he's selling another one on ebay for about $400 which is still hella cheap.

03-23-2007, 08:44 AM	#19
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Yup, it was a steal, no doubt. Well worth twice the money, too. Alex

03-23-2007, 10:27 AM	#20
R33GTS-T Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Here and There Age: 42 Posts: 313 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i'm still curious as to how your open diff s13 6 bolts fit right in when nobody else has been able to get their s15 to work w/o running the s15 helical output shafts if this isn't some kind of a factory fluke and everybody has just been wasted $250 or so on he s15 output shafts then i'm gettin my ass a new diff sooner than expected - Daniel __________________ does your wife drive a wide-bodied sr-powered coupe???

03-23-2007, 12:30 PM	#22
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	I honestly wasn't concerned with the bolts, so I didn't really closely inspect it. It all seemed fine though. Alex

04-17-2007, 12:40 PM	#23
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Sorry to bump this, but I figured I'd update. My diff is NOT repeat NOT an s15 helical. It is from a Nissan, but apparently from a cedric/gloria. Those came with 29spline output shafts, but all s15 diffs require 30 spline! Alex

04-17-2007, 01:01 PM	#24
pbcstylez Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2005 Location: East Bay Age: 40 Posts: 2,110 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thank you for the clarification! __________________ parking lot pimpin... Seller Feedback here: http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...ight=pbcstylez

04-17-2007, 04:45 PM	#25
DJ_Sunrise Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NJ Age: 38 Posts: 1,134 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	is it a helical though? -Bart

04-19-2007, 08:00 AM	#26
nlzmo400r Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: louisiana Posts: 1,248 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^ wondering the same thing! Do the glorias come with an hlsd that would work with stock 29spline shafts? __________________ 'my drinking team has a racing problem' [email protected] - gt32 .6bar

04-20-2007, 01:25 AM	#27
e1_griego Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Independence, Ore. Age: 40 Posts: 2,722 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	Apparently so. It is most definitely a helical-- as I pointed out earlier, you can see the ends of the gears sticking out, just like the s15. It's not a vlsd (for the 10th time !! ). 100% sure it's a helical. I've had two different people tell me now about the existence of this diff (after the fact and all the confusion). Hopefully someone here can confirm since I'm striking out on google with better facts/details. As soon as I found out better info, I'll post it up. But it is definitely a helical. Alex edit: are the pictures not showing up?