is ground control suspension worth it?

[veilside180sx]

Originally Posted by McCoy

I posted up the price earlier and am fairly sure he'll have more housings available soon enough.

fromxtor - I just realised those are my old koni yellows that you have... Richard sold them for me and it seems your the new owner

True enough on both counts

[kouki_s14]

Originally Posted by veilside180sx

Now I'm sure someone will bring up about having dual height adjustability offsets needing to lose "shock" travel because you don't have to use the spring perch for height adjustments. The issue isn't necessarily just stock travel, but I have not driven a JDM setup yet that had enough compression travel.

Dual height adjustability is a gimmick to allow cheap manufacturers the ability to sell the same shock over a spread of vehicles. 99% of the time, the shock is not revalved for different vehicles, like most assume, and it is just slapped from one to the next. The damping for most JDM/Taiwanese setups don't have a broad enough curve to handle different spring rates (not mention what they do have is not remotely ideal either). Have you ever wondered why almost every JDM setup comes with the same spring rates...even for different chassis? Most don't even care if it is multi link, mac, or double wishbone setups.

I've been wondering for awhile now, how would you compare Zeals to Koni, Blistein, Ohlin, etc?

[PoorMans180SX]

Man, I want to ride in someone's car that has this setup. I've only experienced Stance GR+3's that weren't even messed with really.

I've been looking into Topline Aragosta (since you can get custom springs and they provide the customized shock dyno afterward) but every time I read about the Koni setup I hear such great things about it. Oh and I can never go to the Moton site or I just drool.

[drift freaq]

Ok I stated it before and I will say it again I am going to do a Koni setup.

P.S. driftfreek is not me!

[veilside180sx]

Originally Posted by kouki_s14

I've been wondering for awhile now, how would you compare Zeals to Koni, Blistein, Ohlin, etc?

I haven't driven a set of Zeals yet, and I can't say I've been extremely impressed from the shock dyno's i've seen either. They look a little better than most the JDM stuff, but I still wouldn't compare them to Koni, Penske, Bilstein, Moton, or Ohlins.

[ManoNegra]

Subscribed!
It's just a matter of saving some money now and I'll be bugging some of you guys.
Dave, can I have a ride in the Ohlins equipped car? Pretty please?

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by kouki_s14

I've been wondering for awhile now, how would you compare Zeals to Koni, Blistein, Ohlin, etc?

I've asked the guy who answers the e-mails at SPL, and he says, from personal experience, that the Topline damping is better than Zeal's.

So, if anything, get Topline if you want a coilover. I'm still debating back and forth between them and the Koni setup, but I'd still eventually like to have Motons on my car.

[McCoy]

Originally Posted by kouki_s14

I've been wondering for awhile now, how would you compare Zeals to Koni, Blistein, Ohlin, etc?

The only person that I know who has some good experience with Zeals is my coworker and good friend that owns an STI. He's been through 4 different setups on his car, started with JIC IIRC, went back to the stock struts with GC hardware, then onto Zeals, and finally Ohlins.

I've autocrossed his car on several occassions, rode and drove his car with all 4 of these setups and have my own opinions, which should be take with a grain of salt of course. I know it's not a S-chassis, so take it as you will...

Ohlins - He's been running these for the past 1.5 years and has about 6K track miles on them. Riding in the car you can hardly even tell your on 7K/6K springs and it eats up the biggest bumps and railroad tracks without the need of a kidney belt or a mouth piece. I don't think he'll ever change from this setup... of course this was not cheap by any standard.

Zeals - these killed the JIC's and stock struts, but seemed to have more compression built into them than Brian liked. On the track, coming out of lower speed corners at full boost his car would actually start oscillating... you could feel it as the passanger and see it from the side of the track. On the road it was stiffer than he wanted for the several long drives he takes with the car.

Stock struts/GC hardware - Was fine, but the struts would start to fail on track after 15 minutes... they just weren't up to the task of track duty with stiffer springs.

JIC - crap... bouncing headlights going down the road, that's all I need to say about them.

[AceInHole]

Koni 8611's are awesome. They're pretty much as good as it gets untill Moton/ Ohlins/ Koni 28's.

Spring perches set here:


Sit here:


(Crappy pic



I'll try to get a better pic later... but long hours at work = I get home when it's dark

[vw_nissan]

Originally Posted by AceInHole

(Crappy pic

(

Is that your new s14?

What camber plate/strut mounts are you using for the fronts and rears? I have a set of K-sport right now (crap shocks), but thinking if I could use the camber plates and rear strut mounts from these for a custom Koni setup.

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by vw_nissan

Is that your new s14?

Yup, that's the "new" car. I bought it cheap with some minor rust and a lot of body damage, but I can deal with some dings since the rears will get over-fendered this time around.

What camber plate/strut mounts are you using for the fronts and rears? I have a set of K-sport right now (crap shocks), but thinking if I could use the camber plates and rear strut mounts from these for a custom Koni setup.

That's exactly what I did. My upper mounts are off my old D2 setup (like 4 years old and still not seized!!!). The fronts used a 16 to 14mm spacer, and in back I have the standard Koni, so it was a 12 - 10mm spacer IIRC. I'll have to drill out the bushings and use a 9/16" or 14mm ID pipe insert on the upper mount when I convert to 8611's in back.

[vw_nissan]

Originally Posted by AceInHole

That's exactly what I did. My upper mounts are off my old D2 setup (like 4 years old and still not seized!!!). The fronts used a 16 to 14mm spacer, and in back I have the standard Koni, so it was a 12 - 10mm spacer IIRC. I'll have to drill out the bushings and use a 9/16" or 14mm ID pipe insert on the upper mount when I convert to 8611's in back.

What did you mean the front uses 16 to 14mm spacer? Possible to show which part you are referring to?

Thanks.

[McCoy]

Originally Posted by vw_nissan

What did you mean the front uses 16 to 14mm spacer? Possible to show which part you are referring to?

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure PJ's referring to the bearing spacers he had to use... they are a 14mm I.D. (the thickness of the 86xx threaded shaft) to 16mm O.D. (I.D. of the bearing in his D2 camber plates) metal sleeve. The same goes for the rear...

[vw_nissan]

ic...thanks.

[SochBAT]

veilside, welcome to the Blue!


WOOOOT!

[frosty_the_iceman]

Hello.

First off Hi, I browse this site a lot but post very little, just learning and keeping a low profile until I have some wisdom of my own to share. That being said, here's the noob question.

Can I take a KYB AGX replacement strut (as in the whole strut assembly, not just an insert) and cut off the large conical section of the spring perch? Seems to me that the GC sleeve would then sit nicely on the remaining lip.

See the pictures in http://cgi.ebay.ca/KYB-AGX-Shocks-St...QQcmdZViewItem
for clarification, the 2nd one down gives the best view (for me).

Thanks in advance.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

Subscribed!
It's just a matter of saving some money now and I'll be bugging some of you guys.
Dave, can I have a ride in the Ohlins equipped car? Pretty please?

Yes you can when the car comes back from New Mexico. LOL I loaned it out to a customer while putting the finishing touches on his car. Anyways my overall impressions of the front Ohlins is they rock. The rears are stiffer than holy hell. Of course I reset the fronts 10 clicks in. I did not adust the rears because they required a allen head and I was in a hurry to throw them in. Once the car is back I will reset the rears. The other thing is I have to run the numbers on the Apex springs as I have no Idea what spring rate they are. Yes this is a used setup from Japan.

Welcome to the blue Veilside.

[turtl631]

I want some Konis now too. I feel like the damping on set of Stance coilovers is mediocre. Grip just doesn't seem to be there compared to some cars I've been in with similar tires but nice DA Konis, etc. It's also kind of skittery over bumps, and I'd really like to gain some more compliance for rough tracks, bombing over gator strips, etc.

So nobody is running an 86 series in the rear yet? What is the problem, no off the shelf dampers with the proper length?

[veilside180sx]

Tsk Tsk...I just have to finish welding up the S13/S14 rears. I have everything made to use either 8610 or 8611's back there. The downside is that you have to run a Z32 spindle since that's all i've made brackets for thus far. (I know I know...heaven forbid you drop 8 lbs in the rear)

Still needs to be have the sleeve flange welded on and powdercoated, but here's a pic. Shorter=S13 Longer=S14

[veilside180sx]

Here's another picture of Fromxter's setup to help visualize what the insert looks like next to the stock shortened housing.

[turtl631]

This is bad, the wheels are turning now and I'm tempted to do this next summer. If I sell my Stances I can recoup a decent amount of cash I imagine.

Since the 8610 are just SA, how is the compression on them? I'm assuming its going to be pretty good for the target range of spring rates we're talking about here, say 350-650? The extra $450 for the 8611s seems like a lot to pay since frankly, I'm not skilled enough at this point to intelligently adjust DA dampers.

Anyone want to throw out a guess as to decent spring rates for a S14 running sticky street tires or longer lasting R comps with a front progress bar, stock rear, bolt in 4 pt roll bar, and no significant weight reduction (full interior, radio, etc.)?

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by turtl631

Anyone want to throw out a guess as to decent spring rates for a S14 running sticky street tires or longer lasting R comps with a front progress bar, stock rear, bolt in 4 pt roll bar, and no significant weight reduction (full interior, radio, etc.)?

450F 375R would probably be a good start if you street drive it a lot, as it's slightly stiffer than the 8/6 rates that come on most coilovers. Otherwise, with minimal street driving, the 600/450 I'm running now works well (not sure if they'll be as good with 8610's, though). In either case, I'd ditch the rear swaybar.

[steve shadows]

I ditched, at 390-440 whp

it helps on exit.

[mayco_86]

just go coilovers

[turtl631]

I already have Stance coilovers, not too thrilled with them at this point.

I've heard that ditching the rear sway is a good idea many times now- I've got to try that.

Thanks for the advice on rates. I don't have a second car, but I walk to school so I only drive intermittently. Still, with Chicago streets being akin to the surface of the moon, I might be better off with lower rates than those ideal for a smooth track. If I change to this setup I'll probably get a few extra sets of springs to mess with too. Do the front and rear springs have different lengths with the 8610 setup?

[McCoy]

^^^ For the front springs, your going to use a 6-7" (length) spring. The rears you can get away with a 7-8" length spring, well I'm not sure if there is a difference between the S13 and S14 on that one... PJ can best answer the S14 one.

[turtl631]

I think rear S14 dampers are longer, as seen in the pics of Veilside180SX's rear housings for the S13 and S14. No idea if that would affect spring length though. I'd love it if I could just run 7" springs all around, it would be much easier to experiment with rates that way.

[Imprezive]

It all depends on your price range. Ground Control can set you up with a decent koni/eibach kit, they even offer some custom valved koni's for certain applications.

I would not recommend buying their coil-over conversion kit if you plan on participating in any real type of motor sports. The coil over conversion kits are good if you simply want to have a lower car and slightly stiffer ride. Of course some cars do not respond as well lowering, especially if the hardware doesn't permit usage of the threaded sleeves Ground Control uses.

If you haven't yet, give them a call and see what they can offer you. Tell them what application you will be using the car for and they will come up with a set-up for you.

[McCoy]

Originally Posted by turtl631

I think rear S14 dampers are longer, as seen in the pics of Veilside180SX's rear housings for the S13 and S14. No idea if that would affect spring length though. I'd love it if I could just run 7" springs all around, it would be much easier to experiment with rates that way.

PJ's picture that he posted was a 6" spring, but you still have at least 1" below that to add a 7" spring.

The S14 housings might be longer, but I think the collar (for where the sleeve will sit) will be in the same location, in relation to the top of the housing. Richard would probably know best since he's building my set of rear housings also

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by Imprezive

It all depends on your price range. Ground Control can set you up with a decent koni/eibach kit, they even offer some custom valved koni's for certain applications.

I would not recommend buying their coil-over conversion kit if you plan on participating in any real type of motor sports.

OMG NOBODY TOLDED ME THIS!!!!! WHAT HAS I DONE! Real motorsports??!?!?!?


Yeah.... I haven't heard of many people having bad experiences with GC's on decent shocks, unless their complaint was they couldn't touch pavement with their frame rails. Or maybe I'm just lucky and my car pulls 1.2g's on cold tires by chance?