My first car and i'm torn :-(

[derekg]

Hi, i'm about ready to get my first car I originally wanted a 95-96 240sx, but my dad found a deal on a '90 Turbo II FC, I really want a cool car and something i can learn to drift in and thats where the 240 wins in.  In the FC's favor it has 200 hp stock and loos really nice when fixed up, and plus its a rotary and makes it unique.  But the downside I've heard the FC is harder to drift in, rust issues, and its a rotary.

[RacerBoi]

Ive seen people drift in FC's so i wouldnt be too worried about that. By the time you put the 2500 or so dollars to do the sr swap or turbo, you could have a pretty fast rotary. You do have to think the turbo ll whould be an older car. One think i do suggest is to actually drive both of them. hope that helps.

[AceInHole]

why would the fc be harder to drift in??  a lighter car with more power is harder to drift in? the fact that it costs less makes it more "disposable" and drift cars are not supposed to be "disposable"? gyroscopic force from the high revving rotor prevents yaw rotation needed in drift?

get a mustang.  they make better drift cars.

[Apparition]

You're gonna have a sweet car for your first car. I hate you. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> I had a car with 87 massive horsepower, and it slowed down going up hills, and loads of other little oddity problems.

Test drive both cars, and see what feels better to you. A car is a personal thing, and you just have to pick the one that suits you.

[DarkRaptor42]

One thing I can say about the 240 over the RX... engine fire. Rx7s are notorious for engine fires from the seals breaking. Thats just what Id look at. Theres a reason why theres tons and tons of rx7s in the junk yards and barely any 240s

[transient]

Personally, for a first car, I'd be leaning towards the 240sx. The FC is a great car, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's the right car to start with, especially if you're planning on working on the engine.

[Firelance]

Engine fires? &nbsp;What are you talking about? &nbsp;The apex seals are a weak point of the rotary but I've never heard of engine fires. &nbsp;That will result in a blown engine, not an engine fire.

I had the same choice when I was buying my first car (a bit latter than you though i bet <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>). &nbsp;A lot of people will say the rotary is unreliable. &nbsp;Not true, take care of it and it will run just fine. &nbsp;However it will require more maintence than the 240.

That being said. &nbsp;The rotary is more powerful stock and will make more power dollar for dollar than the 240 and handles just as well if not better. &nbsp;It is also unique and it looks pretty darn good. &nbsp;

However since this is your first car, you probably should get something more traditional. &nbsp;Rotary mechanics can be difficult to find depending where you live and the engine is nothing like a piston engine which will make working on it difficult unless you are already knowledgeable about them. &nbsp;Owning a car by yourself can be difficult, no need to complicate by having to learn a totally different system.

[vapor_skank]

YA, ive also heard of the rotary being really un realiable. &nbsp;Of course im gonna say go with the 240 but you should drive both of them. &nbsp;Make sure if you do decide to go with the RX that its in good condition.

[91CRXsiR]

yea the rotory on the FC i heard was not really reliable, but if its a 90 then i should be a Gen II turbo, which is alittle better than the 87-89?.. if you aren't ready to do allot of work on a rotory engine [ which im assuming you don't know anything about ] i wouldn't get the FC.. unless you have really deep pockets.

these are the main reasons i turned away from getting a FC.. but damn they look so nice..

i heard that on a good running turbo. if you get a good exhaust you can gain 60-70 HP!! they say its the secret to rotorary.

[azian21485]

The rx7 to me is a wwwaaayyyy better car than the 240sx in every aspect(not saying the 240 is a bad car, but compared to an rx7)..50/50 weight ratio, rotary, high redline and it wouldn't be any harder to drift in an rx7 than a 240...the only problem with the rx-7 is it needs ALOT of care...rebuilds around 70k i believe and u have to baby it like crazy...treat the engine good and it'll treat you good...if you have the time and patience to check the rotary engine alot and make sure its in good condition, then i'd say get the rx-7, but for a daily driver that you don't need much attention to i say the 240sx...

rotary engines can make more power mod for mod...but only issue is babying the engine and rebuilds

[logo20]

I'd go for the rx-7, it's an older car and is not as reliable as the 240. &nbsp;I say learn more about these two cars and decide what you really want.

[AutoDestruct]

A 240 or a turbo II for a first car? &nbsp; Save yourself the grief, get a Front wheeler. &nbsp;buy an old honda. &nbsp;Maybe you will have it long enough to enjoy it, you just going to get yourself to deep in trouble to get out with the RWD's. &nbsp;Stay safe and see your 17th birthday.

[Kreator]

What autodestruct said. If you are 16 (and i'm guessing you are), don't look anywhere further than a economy car (civics, sentras etc). Coupla reasons:
a. checked the insurance on the sports cars for 16 year olds? No? well go do it.
b. You crash, it's gonna cost u a shit load of money
c. something breaks, and you prolly don't know jack about replacing stuff (since again u've never been around them) you gonna spend money.

So yeah, get an fwd and learn to drive before you learn to drift and put an aluminum wing on any of these decent cars.

Kreator
- who's been driving a 95 ford escort for 2+ years before he even started looking for a car.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">rotary engines can make more power mod for mod...but only issue is babying the engine and rebuilds </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Riiight.... and compared to what? To an engine from an altima? On the other hand, ever heard of american engines? I'll build you one twice as powerfull as yer rotary for the price it'll take you to get one in decent condition.

[Ni5mo180SX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Dec. 07 2002,12:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why would the fc be harder to drift in?? a lighter car with more power is harder to drift in? the fact that it costs less makes it more "disposable" and drift cars are not supposed to be "disposable"? gyroscopic force from the high revving rotor prevents yaw rotation needed in drift?

get a mustang. they make better drift cars.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The S5 T2 weighs in at 3000lbs, its heavier then an S14.

Engine fires? Commonly due to pulsation dampner failure. Replace that and you're ok.

The FCs engines are just like most other RE, if you take care of them, it wont fail you. The reason turbo rotary's developed a bad reputation is they dont take to detenation very well and one instance of detenation is enough to blow your motor.

The FC will be leaps ahead of the SR motor when it comes to hp:dollar ratio. The RE responds very well to mods and you'll be seeing huge increases in hp figures from exhaust mods and such.

Its hard to say which suits you though. If you're responsible enough to control yourself driving the T2 (as far as boost, order of mods etc) then get the T2. If you know it'll be difficult to practice restraint then stick with the 240 which is also a great car and will save you about $2000 if the FC engine blows.

[Ni5mo180SX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 07 2002,6:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">rotary engines can make more power mod for mod...but only issue is babying the engine and rebuilds </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Riiight.... and compared to what? To an engine from an altima? On the other hand, ever heard of american engines? I'll build you one twice as powerfull as yer rotary for the price it'll take you to get one in decent condition.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No compared to most other engines from Japan including 99% of other turbo piston engines.

Yea you build your american engine which is going to be about 4.6-7 liters and I'll build up the 1.3 liter &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 07 2002,6:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The S5 T2 weighs in at 3000lbs, its heavier then an S14.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Soaking wet holding a brick maybe.... &nbsp;Curb weight for a TurboII is supposedly 2,845 lbs. &nbsp;Why it weighs 220lbs more than the NA version, I have no idea, although a single turbo and all it's plumbing shouldn't weigh 220lbs.... &nbsp;

anyways, R&T lists the S13 as:
Curb weight &nbsp;2800 &nbsp;
Test weight &nbsp;2970
Everywhere else the S13 coupe is said to weigh 2699. (fastback listed as 2730)
The S14 supposedly weighs in at 2753. (I like how they specify right to 3lbs)
It may just be a discrepancy on where you get your data.

[Ni5mo180SX]

Which T2 are you talking about? Do you have an idea what the differences are between the series 4 and 5 T2 without jumping to websites for referrence? Yes its not only the turbo assembly which adds up to that weight.

The 3klbs weight seems too much IMO for the S5 T2, id figure about 2900 about but still heavier then an S14.


Where I get my data from? RX7forum.com, nopistons.com. Maybe you should set them straight also.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 07 2002,6:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yea you build your american engine which is going to be about 4.6-7 liters and I'll build up the 1.3 liter &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
3 things to say.. maybe.
1. Escort Cosworth (ok... so not REALLY american..)
2. &nbsp;A turbo 4.6 - 7 Liter...
3. &nbsp;the difference in engine response on a "little" NA 305ci vs a turbo 1.3L at higher power levels.

[Ni5mo180SX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Dec. 07 2002,7:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 07 2002,6:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yea you build your american engine which is going to be about 4.6-7 liters and I'll build up the 1.3 liter <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
3 things to say.. maybe.
1. Escort Cosworth (ok... so not REALLY american..)
2. A turbo 4.6 - 7 Liter...
3. the difference in engine response on a "little" NA 305ci vs a turbo 1.3L at higher power levels.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Are you trying to approach drag racing as the medium of testing or circuit racing because it seems like your just flailing your arms in the dark trying to hit me with something.

[Kreator]

Ummm lets see.
1. cast aluminum chevy 350 will weigh approximately as much as our loved ka, and our even more loved sr.
2. A camaro/firebird and all that stuff can be stripped to around 2600lbs
3. The latest camaro/firebird will outhandle the 240 in any place on the road. Maybe not your favorite fc but whatever
4. A 350 in an rx7 will make no difference to offset your so perfect 50/50 ratio.
5. Will your rotary [accent]EVER[/accent] make 2000hp?

[KiDyNomiTe]

Nothing wrong with american engines. There is a reason why you find a lot of datsuns with chevy engines in em <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> .

Juss cuz an engines big doesn't mean it can't handle, look at Z06s they are great in autocross and basically rule right now.

Someone wanna give me $60K to get a vette, and some extra money to turbo that vette.

437 RWHP & 545 lbs TQ!!!!

[Jeff240sx]

The RE engine will need a lot of TLC, and a mechanic that can actually work on it, as opposed to learning on your car. &nbsp;The RE engine hasn't been in production in america in 9 years, and many, many RX-7's have been totaled and blown up since then. &nbsp;I have talked to a lot of mechanics, cuz I love the '93 RX-7, but none seem to be able to work on them with any ammount of certainty. &nbsp;The parts are pretty specialized and you'd be strapped to find new ones. &nbsp;
On the other hand, you would have an RX-7, with a rotary. &nbsp;I have been to the track where some guy said that (in his built engine) he shifts when the needle bounces off the peg 3 times. &nbsp;
In the end... it's your choice.

Now, can we get back to helping the guy, or should I lock this thread due to argueing?
-Jeff

[KiDyNomiTe]

lol o ya, now to the point, buy the 240 especially if your not in college, which I am assumin cuz its your first car.

Unless you are rich and your parents will buy you anything, in which I say get a brand new car, 4WD, but get something a little more reliable, buy the 240 and before doing heavy modding (i.e. KA-T, SR20, CA18 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> ) make sure you are financially secure.

College isn't cheap and either are cars, and cars get more expensive if you were to ever get in an accident.

And umm if this is your first driving experience, and it snows in your area, and you plan on getting a 5-speed, then I suggest driving for a while in your parents car or something.

[Ni5mo180SX]

Kreators point is what? You can get more hp from a V8? You wont hear any argument on my end. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

The S5 T2 is very rare and is definetly worth picking up.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 08 2002,9:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kreators point is what? You can get more hp from a V8? You wont hear any argument on my end. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

The S5 T2 is very rare and is definetly worth picking up.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sorry jeff, but i have to answer this question. I gave my reply on the topic alrdy, and i'm not gonna post here anymore.

[nervous]My point is not hp. My point that all yer bs about how good japanese engines are is only valid in Japan where there are engine taxes. My point is that american engines are as heavy as all other japanese engines (just 2.5 times bigger). My point is that chevy engines have so much aftermarket support that the rotary engines don't have even in japan. My point is that the 350ci in an rx7 WILL NOT offset the perfrect balance of the car. And my final point is that an rx7 with a 350 in it will waste the fuck out of any rotary rx7 with similar amount of tuning. Now if all of this doesn't get to your head, i'm gonna state this easier: the only good thing about rotary engines that i see is that they are unique. Everything else is bs. Now if you wonna own a engine that will break on you all the time... there is something wrong with you...Done[/nervous]

If you want to continue this pm me, we can start a new thread or something.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 07 2002,7:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Dec. 07 2002,7:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 07 2002,6:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yea you build your american engine which is going to be about 4.6-7 liters and I'll build up the 1.3 liter <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
3 things to say.. maybe.
1. Escort Cosworth (ok... so not REALLY american..)
2. A turbo 4.6 - 7 Liter...
3. the difference in engine response on a "little" NA 305ci vs a turbo 1.3L at higher power levels.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Are you trying to approach drag racing as the medium of testing or circuit racing because it seems like your just flailing your arms in the dark trying to hit me with something.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hmm.... so you don't know what the Ford Escort Cosworth is??
Anyways, my point seems to have already been argued. &nbsp;

If I was flailing my arms around in the dark, I must've accidentally hit the bull's-eye consecutively... &nbsp;Rally, Circuit, AutoX, Drag... &nbsp;anything else you'd like to get hit with??

[hurleyboi514]

i think the Rx7 is a better car... i had an NA and TII before my 240, but they had engine problems. its not that they were bad cars, its just that the engines were a bit difficult to work on. the 240 is in my garage now b/c its more reliable, but no where near as fast as the TII, nor the NA. i think the handling characterstics are about the same as well, so its a difficult decsion. what would i do? 240, b/c the engine wont break and cost tons to fix. the FC will make a good weekend car, or track car, but rotaries are not the ideal daily driver.

[Firelance]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 08 2002,9:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 08 2002,9:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kreators point is what? You can get more hp from a V8? You wont hear any argument on my end. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

The S5 T2 is very rare and is definetly worth picking up.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sorry jeff, but i have to answer this question. I gave my reply on the topic alrdy, and i'm not gonna post here anymore.

[nervous]My point is not hp. My point that all yer bs about how good japanese engines are is only valid in Japan where there are engine taxes. My point is that american engines are as heavy as all other japanese engines (just 2.5 times bigger). My point is that chevy engines have so much aftermarket support that the rotary engines don't have even in japan. My point is that the 350ci in an rx7 WILL NOT offset the perfrect balance of the car. And my final point is that an rx7 with a 350 in it will waste the fuck out of any rotary rx7 with similar amount of tuning. Now if all of this doesn't get to your head, i'm gonna state this easier: the only good thing about rotary engines that i see is that they are unique. Everything else is bs. Now if you wonna own a engine that will break on you all the time... there is something wrong with you...Done[/nervous]

If you want to continue this pm me, we can start a new thread or something.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I don't think anyone said that the Rotary is better than a piston engine. &nbsp;I think what's being said is that dollar for dollar, a FC will make more power than a 240sx and also, that a Rotary Engine itself is unique. &nbsp;

I think everyone agrees that an american V8 can make tons of HP and torque, and that it can be done for FAR cheaper, easier, fuel efficient and reliable than modding most japanese engine. &nbsp;

The discussion is about FC vs. 240sx. &nbsp;Why don't you just tell him to get a that 350 block instead of the 240? &nbsp;Any arguement you make in favor of the 350 over the RE applies to the 240 too. &nbsp;

Blah,too many abbreviations <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[Firelance]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KiDyNomiTe @ Dec. 08 2002,8:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nothing wrong with american engines. There is a reason why you find a lot of datsuns with chevy engines in em <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> .

Juss cuz an engines big doesn't mean it can't handle, look at Z06s they are great in autocross and basically rule right now.

Someone wanna give me $60K to get a vette, and some extra money to turbo that vette.

437 RWHP & 545 lbs TQ!!!!
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I just want to point out that previous to the release of the Z06 vette it was the RX-7 FD that dominated auto-x SS, including the C5 vettes. A 10 year old car with an engine unlike any other <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[Ni5mo180SX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 07 2002,10:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 08 2002,9:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kreators point is what? You can get more hp from a V8? You wont hear any argument on my end. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

The S5 T2 is very rare and is definetly worth picking up.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sorry jeff, but i have to answer this question. I gave my reply on the topic alrdy, and i'm not gonna post here anymore.

[nervous]My point is not hp. My point that all yer bs about how good japanese engines are is only valid in Japan where there are engine taxes. My point is that american engines are as heavy as all other japanese engines (just 2.5 times bigger). My point is that chevy engines have so much aftermarket support that the rotary engines don't have even in japan. My point is that the 350ci in an rx7 WILL NOT offset the perfrect balance of the car. And my final point is that an rx7 with a 350 in it will waste the fuck out of any rotary rx7 with similar amount of tuning. Now if all of this doesn't get to your head, i'm gonna state this easier: the only good thing about rotary engines that i see is that they are unique. Everything else is bs. Now if you wonna own a engine that will break on you all the time... there is something wrong with you...Done[/nervous]

If you want to continue this pm me, we can start a new thread or something.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
At first, reading this through, I didnt know what the hell you were talking about. Some things still dont make sense, others were miscommunication.

"Riiight.... and compared to what?" -Kreator

I said compared to 99% of other Japanese turbo piston motors. I never spoke on the greatness of japanese engines in general so I dont know what the hell you're talking about there. Nor did I ever say anything about your precious V8 throwing off the weight balance of the FC although it doesnt beat the stock motors set up. I will not PM you with this information because I dont want the other forum members to fall into your misinformation bullshit of rotary's being unreliable. Please moderators, im not trying to flame regardless of Kreators replies, id rather the forum members not receive the usual bs of "rotarys arent reliable".

Aceinhole, what is your point? I dont even understand what you're trying to argue? What does this have to do with the purpose of the thread? &nbsp;

Derekg-I owned a S13 fastback for 3 years before moving on to my current car, an NA FC. I have pretty extensive experience with both cars so if you need any info or advice let me know.