Nopi drift ruling - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

TheRonTom31 · 04-30-2008, 12:56 PM

Sosideways and I were having a conversation about this rule today:

2.17> Foul Starts, Passing Competitor: In accordance with customary guidelines, the first person to commit a false start is warned. If that competitor does this again, he is eliminated regardless of whether or not the other car false starts. While on track, competitors are not allowed to pass one another unless lead vehicle looses drift, spins, or leaves course.

He thinks its a rather poor rule and I agree. I also thought that maybe there was room for interpretation in it. D1GP allows passing which is awesome and the way it should be. I personally thought Nopi drift allowed passing at one point. We were speaking of what constituted "looses drift". I said running wide could constitute it and he disagreed and said he thought it only meant complete loss of control or the action of drifting i.e. stopping, spinning, totally straitening out.

Discuss?

Flipzide · 04-30-2008, 01:52 PM

I never liked the no passing rule. No fun in that, right?

TPS240sxS13 · 04-30-2008, 01:54 PM

^^

agreed

EJ253 · 04-30-2008, 01:56 PM

well,if the other driver takes a wide line you cant pass em cuz your going for a faster shorter line.

but just because you go to the outside, i dont think that would be considered losing drift.
most of the time the drifting is more intense in the outside lines IMO

GSXRJJordan · 04-30-2008, 01:56 PM

I imagine in NY, you might think of Nopi as "America's Drifting", but the truth is, Nopi is nowhere near as competitive as F-D or even close to D1 - and as such, the drivers aren't as good (on average). To add to that, most of the Nopi drivers are privateers, who can't afford to rebuild their competition car between events. The rule is a safety measure, that keeps people from being hurt and loosing their cars due to someone else's mis-judgement.

And as I understand it, "loose drift" means no angle - if the lead car goes off-line (like running wide), but still is drifting, the car behind can't sneak in underneath.

Matej · 04-30-2008, 02:03 PM

Some people wait a lifetime,
For a moment like this.
Some people search forever,
For that one special kiss.
Oh, I can't believe it's happening to me.
Some people wait a lifetime,
For a moment like this.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdEefnKniso[/ame]

cisco240 · 04-30-2008, 02:09 PM

No passing rule is teh gayness. Why miss out on action?

TheRonTom31 · 04-30-2008, 02:15 PM

it is my understanding that FD has a no passing rule as well. Being in NY has nothing to do with my judgement. FD comes to Englishtown NJ which I can get to in a little under 3 hours. I brought up Nopi drift because I believed that they had not instituted the passing rule which would have made them cool but upon more research they aswell as formula D had.

bmhossain · 04-30-2008, 02:21 PM

I'm not too big on the no passing rule, to me it kind of defeats the whole purpose. But if its a safety thing and its more amateurs than anything then I can see where they're coming from. I'd probably be a little mad if some over enthusiastic idiot jacked up my car trying to make a name for himself at a NOPI drift event. Glad I don't have to decide the rules, I can see both sides here.

TheRonTom31 · 04-30-2008, 02:28 PM

I do see it as being a safety thing. In that aspect it is understandable. SO I can see where it is a good idea in Nopi drift being a more ametueror individually funded event but why cant they take it out of Formula D and get back some of the excitement. Watching formula D in the beginning was 10% better than watching it now.

LB.Motoring · 04-30-2008, 02:28 PM

Its just going to kill the people who do the close wall wide drifts....

I can see it on a coarse with apex etc, but with like a corner, they shallow drift at high speed and pass and everyone goes wild, when the best driver was on the outside...

Its pretty easy to argue both sides..

*wangan_cruiser* · 04-30-2008, 02:32 PM

real skill comes out when you can pass with a safe access

blueshark123 · 04-30-2008, 02:32 PM

that video is sick thats how all competitions should be

azndoc · 04-30-2008, 02:55 PM

I'm not drift expert but this is how I see the ruling.

1.) Safety. A lot of crashes can be prevented if this rule in implemented.

2.) Lines. The ruling before I believe was that if you pass someone then you would score higher if it's a clean pass. Now with D1 they all understand that and keep their wide/medium angle when passing. But with a lot of drivers here it seems that they take a shallow angle just to pass someone and thus resulting in them winning that round just because they passed them.

In drifting you are judge upon speed, angle, smoke, and the ability to stick with your opponent when following. Passing gets you higher score and spin out or causing someone to spin out results in a score of zero.

JKim0901 · 04-30-2008, 03:12 PM

damn that video is sick

SoSideways · 04-30-2008, 04:46 PM

So... nobody here really knows what that rule constitutes?

Also, I actually think this video shows how truly godly Koguchi really is. He pulls the "Takumi" move and flicks the car the other way to avoid crashing into Utsumi, then flicks it the other way and keeps going. Didn't stop drifting the entire way.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZsNfdAZUkU[/ame]

So basically, those rules are in place because:

1) Americans don't have any self control when it comes to passing an opponent, and they will do whatever it takes to do it, and
2) Most American drivers aren't good enough to control their cars in a drift, pass, and not crash each other out?

I mean, some of you have mentioned that, D1 drivers understand the rules and understand how it works, and yet they pull off clean passes all the time. So why can't the US drivers do the same, and thus eliminating these rules?

I was watching an episode of Formula D on ESPN2 a couple of months ago, and 1 guy made a mistake and went out wide. The chasing car just did a normal run as he would normally do, clipped the apex and passed. He was then slapped with a penalty and didn't score any points, while the guy in front, lost some points, but still gained enough to win the round. That is some bullshit. But I guess the chase car should have "followed the leader" and went wide as well, completely missing the apex and almost hitting the wall where he wasn't supposed to, just so he doesn't pass the leading car.

McRussellPants · 04-30-2008, 05:00 PM

You guys need to think about how this rule relates to driving.

Its so easy to dick out a drifting car making a solid run its not even funny. You really don't have to be talented to do it every single run. you just have to know where to be and why.

You just run shallow angle and a slow inside line and wait for them to chicken out when the lines intersect. it makes it boring because you either have to run wide and stuff your car trying to block out the passing car or run the bitch line so you want get passed, and if the judges do anything about it the crowd gets uppity because they don't understand that passing isn't winning.

Dan did it 5 times at Nopi Nationals because the Judges told everyone to be out by the wall on the man line. Dan won every time because passing = a win

Formula D has a No Passing rule.
D1 doesn't have it, and it results in some good moves ala koguchis, which was more or less caused by a big fuck up and save by Kumakubo, but I geuss they just have a better grasp on how to win right or something.

TheRonTom31 · 04-30-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRussellPants

You guys need to think about how this rule relates to driving.

Its so easy to dick out a drifting car making a solid run its not even funny. You really don't have to be talented to do it every single run. you just have to know where to be and why.

You just run shallow angle and a slow inside line and wait for them to chicken out when the lines intersect. it makes it boring because you either have to run wide and stuff your car trying to block out the passing car or run the bitch line so you want get passed, and if the judges do anything about it the crowd gets uppity because they don't understand that passing isn't winning.

Dan did it 5 times at Nopi Nationals because the Judges told everyone to be out by the wall on the man line. Dan won every time because passing = a win

Formula D has a No Passing rule.
D1 doesn't have it, and it results in some good moves ala koguchis, which was more or less caused by a big fuck up and save by Kumakubo, but I geuss they just have a better grasp on how to win right or something.

That thought had crossed my mind. If pass=win instantly what is to keep people from just going for that every single time. There are definitely some instances where going wide in a corner is the right thing and better form yet it the person went shallow they could pass and just win by being a duche.

Good point

sldbyuramg · 04-30-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSideways

So basically, those rules are in place because:

1) Americans don't have any self control when it comes to passing an opponent, and they will do whatever it takes to do it, and
2) Most American drivers aren't good enough to control their cars in a drift, pass, and not crash each other out?

I mean, some of you have mentioned that, D1 drivers understand the rules and understand how it works, and yet they pull off clean passes all the time. So why can't the US drivers do the same, and thus eliminating these rules?

it has nothing to do with american drivers being not as good... its the same as Pride and UFC...UFC was more conservitive with the rules when Pride was around. its just how Japan is... not Japanese drivers... rediculous

Flipzide · 04-30-2008, 05:23 PM

Hmm I never thought about the saftey aspect some of you brought up + the fact that nopi is driven by privateers.

Anyway to add on to my previous post, I understood the no passing rule because of exploits a drive could take just by going on the inside line with a shallow drift, but I figure if the judging was good to begin with, stuff like that wouldnt happen. Of course, like I said earlier, it's no fun to watch.

I would like to see the no passing rule removed at least in FD and have the judges at least watch what the chasing driver is doing to attempt the pass then award points accordingly to how fast they were going and how much angle during the pass. Maybe they tried that already; I don't know. Judging in drifting varies from person to person I guess.

cfrost · 04-30-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wangan_cruiser

real skill comes out when you can pass with a safe access

not really.... real skill comes out when you can follow the other guys line and stay stuck to him

passing is only okay if someone is way offline or off course

otherwise it's just drift racing..

azndoc · 04-30-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrost

not really.... real skill comes out when you can follow the other guys line and stay stuck to him

passing is only okay if someone is way offline or off course

otherwise it's just drift racing..

Truth......

Colin knows.

SILEIGHTY_DET · 04-30-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrost

not really.... real skill comes out when you can follow the other guys line and stay stuck to him

passing is only okay if someone is way offline or off course

otherwise it's just drift racing..

i agree . in the drivers meetings they tell you what lines they want you to take . in that , they want you to be close to the wall to make it more exciting to watch and hit the apexes here and there , which in tern still leaves places open to pass . so . . . if everyone took the opertunity to pass then no one would go big with lots of angle and follow the lines that the judges wanted to see . they would go as fast as possable and make it real racing . but this sport is not racing . . . its drifting . passing would only be allowed if the leader was to fuck up and spin or go way off of that pre designated line . that is how i understood the rule , correct me if im wrong

Mr. Jesse · 04-30-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrost

not really.... real skill comes out when you can follow the other guys line and stay stuck to him

passing is only okay if someone is way offline or off course

otherwise it's just drift racing..

Agreed. The purpose of following is to show that you got skills to match what the other guy can do and then some. not take a bitch line and pass. Or do I just not get this shit?

Matej · 04-30-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrost

otherwise it's just drift racing..

It already is drift racing, old Corollas are forced to keep up with new Vipers haha how ridiculous.

TheRonTom31 · 04-30-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It already is drift racing, old Corollas are forced to keep up with new Vipers haha how ridiculous.

Caan youuu dig it <---Means I agree

cfrost · 05-01-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It already is drift racing, old Corollas are forced to keep up with new Vipers haha how ridiculous.

that's what a pace cone is for

SoSideways · 05-01-2008, 08:08 AM

That's the thing we're trying to figure out.

Is the rule a rigid one, in which any type of passing while the other car is still drifting, even if he's made a mistake and ran wide, but holds onto the drift, will still result in the chase car getting a zero for the run?

Or...

Do the chase car have the option to pass if the front car goes way off the proper line, and goes way wide, doesn't clip the apex, and is barely going fast enough to keep the drift going, and not incur any kind of penalty?

That's what the basis of our discussion was about yesterday.

And still, nobody has any sort of concrete idea if that's how it works, or any of that, just discussed why there's a rule there and why it's a good idea, etc.

cfrost · 05-01-2008, 08:37 AM

just remember that the judges are people, not computers, which makes all of the decisions subjective

I'm sure if a lead car puts four wheels off the course and the following car holds his drift, following car will win

the rule is in place to discourage passing in situations where it's unnecessary, first year in nopi that's what it seemed like everyone was going after and the driving got boring when it was all about protecting your line and taking a shallow line, it was no long lead follow it was lead/try to pass whenever possible.. which is stupid.

passes may seem exciting when they happen once in a while, but when people are going for them every run it gets really stupid

just remember it's subjective.. that's why the judges are there

SoSideways · 05-02-2008, 07:29 AM

Well, the rule states that "While on track, competitors are not allowed to pass one another unless lead vehicle looses drift, spins, or leaves course."

So basically, we're trying to figure out what constitutes "looses (or loses?) drift".

And I agree, if everyone just tried to pass every chance they get, and every lead car has to take the shallow line, it would get boring real fast, but if some passing is allowed, I think it would be much more exciting.

I guess it all boils down to the drivers not being mature enough to realize that, they truly killed the series by trying to pass every time with a shallow drift, and having that rule slapped in their face, because now it's up to the judges if the pass they pulled was legal and will result in points awarded, or deemed illegal with a strict rule following, and thus giving them a zero, whereas before, they would have been able to just pass without any concerns if the lead driver goes wide, but stays on course and misses the apex completely.

04-30-2008, 12:56 PM	#1
TheRonTom31 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Saratoga, NY Age: 42 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Nopi drift ruling Sosideways and I were having a conversation about this rule today: 2.17> Foul Starts, Passing Competitor: In accordance with customary guidelines, the first person to commit a false start is warned. If that competitor does this again, he is eliminated regardless of whether or not the other car false starts. While on track, competitors are not allowed to pass one another unless lead vehicle looses drift, spins, or leaves course. He thinks its a rather poor rule and I agree. I also thought that maybe there was room for interpretation in it. D1GP allows passing which is awesome and the way it should be. I personally thought Nopi drift allowed passing at one point. We were speaking of what constituted "looses drift". I said running wide could constitute it and he disagreed and said he thought it only meant complete loss of control or the action of drifting i.e. stopping, spinning, totally straitening out. Discuss?

04-30-2008, 01:52 PM	#2
Flipzide Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,011 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	I never liked the no passing rule. No fun in that, right? __________________ D-Street.net \| bcuison.wordpress.com

04-30-2008, 01:56 PM	#4
EJ253 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Age: 36 Posts: 1,154 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: EJ253 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well,if the other driver takes a wide line you cant pass em cuz your going for a faster shorter line. but just because you go to the outside, i dont think that would be considered losing drift. most of the time the drifting is more intense in the outside lines IMO __________________ The gap between MORE and ENOUGH never closes. DriftUtah \| UtahNissans \| MySpace \| I <3 Drifting. Keep it Real. Secret Society

04-30-2008, 01:56 PM	#5
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I imagine in NY, you might think of Nopi as "America's Drifting", but the truth is, Nopi is nowhere near as competitive as F-D or even close to D1 - and as such, the drivers aren't as good (on average). To add to that, most of the Nopi drivers are privateers, who can't afford to rebuild their competition car between events. The rule is a safety measure, that keeps people from being hurt and loosing their cars due to someone else's mis-judgement. And as I understand it, "loose drift" means no angle - if the lead car goes off-line (like running wide), but still is drifting, the car behind can't sneak in underneath. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

04-30-2008, 02:28 PM	#11
LB.Motoring Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: SòCal♥ Age: 38 Posts: 5,840 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: LB.Motoring Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Its just going to kill the people who do the close wall wide drifts.... I can see it on a coarse with apex etc, but with like a corner, they shallow drift at high speed and pass and everyone goes wild, when the best driver was on the outside... Its pretty easy to argue both sides.. __________________ Robby Leuer

04-30-2008, 01:54 PM	#3
TPS240sxS13 Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Carrollton, Texas Age: 36 Posts: 162 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^ agreed

04-30-2008, 02:03 PM	#6
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Some people wait a lifetime, For a moment like this. Some people search forever, For that one special kiss. Oh, I can't believe it's happening to me. Some people wait a lifetime, For a moment like this. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdEefnKniso[/ame]

04-30-2008, 02:15 PM	#8
TheRonTom31 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Saratoga, NY Age: 42 Posts: 775 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	it is my understanding that FD has a no passing rule as well. Being in NY has nothing to do with my judgement. FD comes to Englishtown NJ which I can get to in a little under 3 hours. I brought up Nopi drift because I believed that they had not instituted the passing rule which would have made them cool but upon more research they aswell as formula D had.

04-30-2008, 02:21 PM	#9
bmhossain Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Topeka KS Age: 42 Posts: 520 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	I'm not too big on the no passing rule, to me it kind of defeats the whole purpose. But if its a safety thing and its more amateurs than anything then I can see where they're coming from. I'd probably be a little mad if some over enthusiastic idiot jacked up my car trying to make a name for himself at a NOPI drift event. Glad I don't have to decide the rules, I can see both sides here.

04-30-2008, 02:32 PM	#12
wangan_cruiser kouki man Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: downtown oakland,ca Age: 40 Posts: 3,539 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	real skill comes out when you can pass with a safe access

04-30-2008, 02:32 PM	#13
blueshark123 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 5,481 Trader Rating: (55) Feedback Score: 55 reviews	that video is sick thats how all competitions should be

04-30-2008, 02:55 PM	#14
azndoc Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Age: 43 Posts: 9,487 Trader Rating: (47) Rides Gallery: azndoc Feedback Score: 47 reviews	I'm not drift expert but this is how I see the ruling. 1.) Safety. A lot of crashes can be prevented if this rule in implemented. 2.) Lines. The ruling before I believe was that if you pass someone then you would score higher if it's a clean pass. Now with D1 they all understand that and keep their wide/medium angle when passing. But with a lot of drivers here it seems that they take a shallow angle just to pass someone and thus resulting in them winning that round just because they passed them. In drifting you are judge upon speed, angle, smoke, and the ability to stick with your opponent when following. Passing gets you higher score and spin out or causing someone to spin out results in a score of zero.

04-30-2008, 03:12 PM	#15
JKim0901 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Irvine Age: 42 Posts: 1,273 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	damn that video is sick

04-30-2008, 04:46 PM	#16
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	So... nobody here really knows what that rule constitutes? Also, I actually think this video shows how truly godly Koguchi really is. He pulls the "Takumi" move and flicks the car the other way to avoid crashing into Utsumi, then flicks it the other way and keeps going. Didn't stop drifting the entire way. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZsNfdAZUkU[/ame] So basically, those rules are in place because: 1) Americans don't have any self control when it comes to passing an opponent, and they will do whatever it takes to do it, and 2) Most American drivers aren't good enough to control their cars in a drift, pass, and not crash each other out? I mean, some of you have mentioned that, D1 drivers understand the rules and understand how it works, and yet they pull off clean passes all the time. So why can't the US drivers do the same, and thus eliminating these rules? I was watching an episode of Formula D on ESPN2 a couple of months ago, and 1 guy made a mistake and went out wide. The chasing car just did a normal run as he would normally do, clipped the apex and passed. He was then slapped with a penalty and didn't score any points, while the guy in front, lost some points, but still gained enough to win the round. That is some bullshit. But I guess the chase car should have "followed the leader" and went wide as well, completely missing the apex and almost hitting the wall where he wasn't supposed to, just so he doesn't pass the leading car.

04-30-2008, 05:00 PM	#17
McRussellPants Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 2,168 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You guys need to think about how this rule relates to driving. Its so easy to dick out a drifting car making a solid run its not even funny. You really don't have to be talented to do it every single run. you just have to know where to be and why. You just run shallow angle and a slow inside line and wait for them to chicken out when the lines intersect. it makes it boring because you either have to run wide and stuff your car trying to block out the passing car or run the bitch line so you want get passed, and if the judges do anything about it the crowd gets uppity because they don't understand that passing isn't winning. Dan did it 5 times at Nopi Nationals because the Judges told everyone to be out by the wall on the man line. Dan won every time because passing = a win Formula D has a No Passing rule. D1 doesn't have it, and it results in some good moves ala koguchis, which was more or less caused by a big fuck up and save by Kumakubo, but I geuss they just have a better grasp on how to win right or something.

04-30-2008, 05:23 PM	#20
Flipzide Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,011 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Hmm I never thought about the saftey aspect some of you brought up + the fact that nopi is driven by privateers. Anyway to add on to my previous post, I understood the no passing rule because of exploits a drive could take just by going on the inside line with a shallow drift, but I figure if the judging was good to begin with, stuff like that wouldnt happen. Of course, like I said earlier, it's no fun to watch. I would like to see the no passing rule removed at least in FD and have the judges at least watch what the chasing driver is doing to attempt the pass then award points accordingly to how fast they were going and how much angle during the pass. Maybe they tried that already; I don't know. Judging in drifting varies from person to person I guess. __________________ D-Street.net \| bcuison.wordpress.com

05-01-2008, 08:08 AM	#28
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	That's the thing we're trying to figure out. Is the rule a rigid one, in which any type of passing while the other car is still drifting, even if he's made a mistake and ran wide, but holds onto the drift, will still result in the chase car getting a zero for the run? Or... Do the chase car have the option to pass if the front car goes way off the proper line, and goes way wide, doesn't clip the apex, and is barely going fast enough to keep the drift going, and not incur any kind of penalty? That's what the basis of our discussion was about yesterday. And still, nobody has any sort of concrete idea if that's how it works, or any of that, just discussed why there's a rule there and why it's a good idea, etc.

05-01-2008, 08:37 AM	#29
cfrost Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange, CA Age: 39 Posts: 924 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	just remember that the judges are people, not computers, which makes all of the decisions subjective I'm sure if a lead car puts four wheels off the course and the following car holds his drift, following car will win the rule is in place to discourage passing in situations where it's unnecessary, first year in nopi that's what it seemed like everyone was going after and the driving got boring when it was all about protecting your line and taking a shallow line, it was no long lead follow it was lead/try to pass whenever possible.. which is stupid. passes may seem exciting when they happen once in a while, but when people are going for them every run it gets really stupid just remember it's subjective.. that's why the judges are there __________________

05-02-2008, 07:29 AM	#30
SoSideways Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 你老母 Posts: 4,371 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Well, the rule states that "While on track, competitors are not allowed to pass one another unless lead vehicle looses drift, spins, or leaves course." So basically, we're trying to figure out what constitutes "looses (or loses?) drift". And I agree, if everyone just tried to pass every chance they get, and every lead car has to take the shallow line, it would get boring real fast, but if some passing is allowed, I think it would be much more exciting. I guess it all boils down to the drivers not being mature enough to realize that, they truly killed the series by trying to pass every time with a shallow drift, and having that rule slapped in their face, because now it's up to the judges if the pass they pulled was legal and will result in points awarded, or deemed illegal with a strict rule following, and thus giving them a zero, whereas before, they would have been able to just pass without any concerns if the lead driver goes wide, but stays on course and misses the apex completely.