Custom alignment help

[96SEChick]

I'm getting ready to get a 4-wheel alignment done. Lemme tell you how bad my alignment currently is---it's physically noticable that the PS rear has more negative camber than the DS rear!! ARGGG!!--and NO--I haven't hit anything--it's been like this since the first day I had the car, but I got screwed by the guys who put my tires on who said they did a 4-wheel, but they actually didn't. And, since it's been almost 2 years since I had this done, there's not jackshiat I can do about it

Anyway. I have a guy that I really, really trust, who's going to do my 4WA next week, and I need to know what specs to have him align it to.

OK, more rambling---what toe/camber/caster measurements should I have him align my car to for optimum auto-x/cornering capabilites w/o destroying my tires during normal every-day driving? That sounds better.

BTW--I did search. I found this one particular thread:
Camber, Caster, and toe...getting alignment to custom specs
But it didn't quite answer what I'm looking for, since my suspension is 100% stock (even with the original stock 87k miles!)




Thanks guys. BTW--I miss the slutting thread (be damned, whoever misbehaved to have it locked)

[Jeff240sx]

Caster can't be changed. Camber specs are like -1.6* to -2.5*. My camber was at -4* and it ate a set of tires in 6000 miles. I'd say that -2.5* for daily driving is about all you'd need.
-Jeff

[AceInHole]

IMO, just have it all set to stock specs. You've got stock suspension, so uhh.... yeah.


Then again, stock specs have a decently wide range. Right now IIRC my setup is like:
Front:
7deg caster, close to 0deg toe, 1.5deg camber (aligned by eye and an air bubble level tool at my garage by slotting the strut's lower mount hole... i was suprised I had both sides even!)
Rear:
close to 0deg toe, 2.0deg camber (slightly out of spec )

At least, that's what it was set at last time I had my 4WA (did it at Pepboys, while I was standing at the garage entrance watchin' em like a hawk ) I'm lowered on Sportlines though....

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Caster can't be changed. Camber specs are like -1.6* to -2.5*. My camber was at -4* and it ate a set of tires in 6000 miles. I'd say that -2.5* for daily driving is about all you'd need.
-Jeff

On caster--why can't caster be changed on our cars?
On toe-in/out--are there any toe-in/out specs, or just do those to factory specs?
On camber--thank you! You're so awesome! So, your tires don't wear very badly w/ -2.5*? And I'll still be OK for auto-xing?

BTW--TTR in my first post is tire-to-road........I think I forgot to put that in

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Caster can't be changed. Camber specs are like -1.6* to -2.5*. My camber was at -4* and it ate a set of tires in 6000 miles. I'd say that -2.5* for daily driving is about all you'd need.
-Jeff

TC rod length will change caster. If you've got a busted TC rod bushing you'll know it when they check the caster, but there should be a small amount of "play" on the lower arm mount where the TC rod attaches to allow a small bit of adjustment, i think.

Factory spec for front camber is 0 to -1deg 30'
Rear is -1deg 40' to 0deg 40'

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by AceInHole
TC rod length will change caster. If you've got a busted TC rod bushing you'll know it when they check the caster, but there should be a small amount of "play" on the lower arm mount where the TC rod attaches to allow a small bit of adjustment, i think.

Factory spec for front camber is 0 to -1deg 30'
Rear is -1deg 40' to 0deg 40'

Yeah, Kent (the guy at the shop) said he'll have to see how loose everything is in front before he can do a full alignment accurately. I guess he was talking about the TC rods & stuff.

What do you mean by the rear specs you gave me:

Rear is -1deg 40' to 0deg 40'

I'm not sure what you mean by the 40'



Thanks Ace!! I knew I could count on you 2 guys!

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by 96SEChick
What do you mean by the rear specs you gave me:

I'm not sure what you mean by the 40'

Sorry, was abusing my FSM

40' = 40minutes, as in there are 60 minutes to a degree, so 40' = 40/60 = 2/3 deg (at least, IIRC)

[96SEChick]

Jeff & Ace--a little off-topic, but how are the engines coming along?

[AceInHole]

I decided to custom mount mine in my minivan:



For real, the engine should be in by next week and I'll be boosting low untill I get an FMIC and some dyno testing done.

And Jeff recently told me he had the wrong pistons.....

[Jeff240sx]

Yea. JE sent me the wrong pistons for my car. So I ship them back (at my f*cking expense!), and they tell me over the phone "We're shipping the correct pistons right now." So... if it took 3 months for my pistons in the first place.. and I have 4 incorrect pistons... how did they figure it out, and package and ship it before I called them? Stupid JE. If their pistons weren't so damned good, I'd fly out there and shove a piston up someone's ass!
There is no emoticon for what I'm feeling right now. Nor enough swear words.
JWT also has had my ecu for longer than they said they would (2 weeks now, compared to the 1 week they quoted me).
Unstable-Hybrids seems to be backordered on my MSD 50# injectors.
Need the engine in the car to evaluate the piping situation so I can weld together piping for my FMIC.
So. I don't know. How's my engine comming?
Wanna hear another rant? I bought a 3/8" diameter by 1/4" tall magnet from McMaster Carr... and they shipped it in a 12"x12"x8" box!
Finally.. the specs I gave before was from a tire shop's alignment directions that -2.5* for the rear was max spec. My alignment is like -2.2* or so (as little camber as I can get on my car). I don't really go thru tires that bad, but I rotate them often. Then again.. tires last a lot longer when your car sits on the side of your house for 3 months when it doesn't move aside from friends pushing.
You brought up the engine thinggy on the wrong day. Hope yours was better!
-Jeff

[240fluke]

Sounds like everything has pretty much been covered on here. Caster does not have any factory adjustments on our car, hence the reason why it is not adjustable up front. Set the toe within the factory specs and you should be fine. Camber, you could probably have them max out the camber on your car and you would corner better and really not eat up the tires on your car. I am lowered on Pro-kits and my rear is sitting at about -1.8 degrees camber. I just put on new S03's to replace my old Kumho's (night and day difference BTW) and the only part of my old tires that were worn out was the center section (which was due to the fact that I kept my pressure up at 40psi).

Tim '95 SE

[adey]

FWIW: I'm running -3 degrees of camber up front, and don't (surprisingly) experience any particularly bad innter tire wear. I believe toe settings to be either 0, or possibly even slight toe out (judging by freeway stability... or lack thereof). so I guess I have 2 points: -3 degrees isn't that much, and if you drive your car even relatively hard, -3 deg. shouldn't have too much of an adverse effect on tire wear.

[Foxcolt]

Can someone explain how toe effects stability on the highway?

[Dousan_PG]

i felt a slight change in response, but my bumpsteer is so bad i cant really comment much on it.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by AceInHole
I decided to custom mount mine in my minivan:



For real, the engine should be in by next week and I'll be boosting low untill I get an FMIC and some dyno testing done.

And Jeff recently told me he had the wrong pistons.....

very nice, what kind of mini van is that j/k

when will it be up and running again, i hope soon

and when you mean low boost, what psi you thinking?

[Steeles]

I just had my alignment done had basically everything set as close to stock as possible. (ive got blown world sports and monkey magic TC rods) when I get the blown world sports off there and some new rims I'll redo things. I've got like .5 degrees negative camber off the stock setting. which Im happy with. 9although i do need new rears from how far off it was before hand....) new set of tires probably 7000 miles on them? crap good thing they are relatively cheap.

[240fluke]

For toe (to my understanding of this) a toe in situation should make turn in easier, but it will also be more willing to follow ruts in the road. This can probably cause for a little less stability on the vehicle at highway speeds, but it is easier to rotate the car.

A toe out situation will lead to more highway stability as the car does not want to go and follow the road as much. However, it does lead to the car becoming harder to rotate through turns.

Also with the tires facing in ( / / \ \ ) the car will want to wear the outside edges of your tires faster. With the tires facing out
( \ \ / / ) you will be dragging the inside of the tires along the road causing the inside edges to wear faster.

Tim '95 SE

[96SEChick]

So, I should have them set all 4 to 0-toe in/out, anywhere from -1*to -2.5* camber, and caster won't be adjustable? Wow, I'm getting confused! I appreciate all the help guys. I guess I'm getting a bit lost on all the different responses.

[Dousan_PG]

stock fronts you can adjust:

camber
toe


non-adjustable:

caster





rear i know you can do camber and toe, but im not too sure on caster.

[THX1138]

Tim, you explained the toe in vs. toe out stuff very nicely, but had it backward.

Toe in enhances straight-line stability, with the side effect of reducing turn-in ability.

Toe out makes for more sensitive steering, particularly at turn-in, but makes the car very darty on straights.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by THX1138
Tim, you explained the toe in vs. toe out stuff very nicely, but had it backward.

Toe in enhances straight-line stability, with the side effect of reducing turn-in ability.

Toe out makes for more sensitive steering, particularly at turn-in, but makes the car very darty on straights.

ahh cool. thanks. then i have 1/8 toe out! my turn ins are much faster and smaller radiuses. thanks! (and more bumpsteer/darty handling on the freeway! gotta use 2 hands, no choice)

[240fluke]

Oops, thanks THX for the clarification.

Tim '95 SE