Why is CF so damned expensive?? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*Jeff240sx* · 03-17-2003, 11:50 AM

So yea. I have been researching on how to make stuff from CF, and I can totally do it. So, I have some chipped trim pieces in my interior, and wanted to remake them. I also need to make a place under the CD player to hold an AFC and AVC. Carbon Fiber seems to be the way to go.
So, I go happily looking online to find CF mats and resins, thinking I'll spend like $50 per piece.
Hell no! It's like $130 for a 36"x54" sheet of CF, and $70 for a gallon of resin. Then add $20 for HazMat handling, and crap!
Not to mention that you need like 3 or 4 layers for strength.
So.. out of this, I've realized something. If you spend $300 on a CF hood... well... Let's just say that I can't even make a $300 hood myself.
Sorry.. I'm just astounded by the price. It's not like I'm asking for new-age stealth RAM stuff.
-Jeff

Kid Zelda · 03-17-2003, 12:20 PM

IIRC, most "CF" hoods are just fiberglass with one layer of "CF" on top for the look.

91CRXsiR · 03-17-2003, 02:12 PM

real carbon fibre is real space age stuff...

tunerz CF is just lookalike CF you can just sheets of the sticker kind and make anything you want. its pretty cheap if you are going for the "look"

**Phlip** · 03-17-2003, 04:57 PM

www.aircraftspruce.com for the best prices on composites... The resins, on the other hand, are gonna cost you either way... Jeff, you remember last week when I was telling you about FBOs, check your local airport and see who does general aviation aircraft maintenence and call them, see what they charge for resin and they won't have to charge for for the HazMat or shipping.

king_johnthegreat · 03-17-2003, 07:28 PM

To make stuff look cool, it is easy. To make stuff right, that is actually strong and proper, you'll spend lots of dough. I actually do make structural/load bearing/fine finish parts and even vehicles out of CF. To do it right, you need to know the application, the call for the right weight matte, weave, resin, how it wets out, the Tg value, the volume of resin to matte... just to name a FEW. To make parts correctly, also, you need to use a vacuum bag process, and post cure the parts. Most of the time, high end manufacturers do not buy the resin and matte separetely only to mix it themselves, they buy pre-preg material. The pre-preg costs a WHOLE LOT more. Not only is the material completely ready, it has to be done first, and believe me you are paying royally for that prep. The shipping is another thing altogether. Pre-preg must be refridgerated, so you can only imagine how fun it is to work with. Besides the material, you must also consider tooling. All the crappy hoods, like the ones with waves, yeah; they were done on a bad mold, taken from a bad plug, laid by a total moron, using material he probably didn't use right, and certainly didn't cure properly, or post cure for that matter. For a roll of the good stuff, my company would spend over $3000 dollars. For the right stuff to finish the job, double that. Now take into consideration that there are only a limited number of products that can be made from that roll. If you make CNC plugs or molds, you are making great parts, but they cost a small fortune. For manual labor, it is less costly, but you still have to pay the shlep-rock doing the work. It gets expensive to do this kind of business, so all that cost, plus profit, has to be garnered from the retail price. It is a science to the business man in charge, and a skilled artistry to the man who actually does it. There is no room for error in a production facility. I'm not trying to bash anyone who wants to try it over paying for it. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, either; just sharing some insider info. I get the "Your 3!@# is sooo expensive........." line a whole lot. Yeah, there is a reason for that; we don't get it in looking like a hood already......
John

slideways240 · 03-17-2003, 07:57 PM

my brother made some rather primative CF interior pieces. they actually came out looking good, but it was all flat pieces. like a flat piece cut out for guages...flat piece to fill the airbag hole with guages...wanted to do more but didn't want to invest in the vacuum pump thing....anyway you can save a ton of cash by buying the structural cf.it doesn't have a fancy weave to it but you can layer it up and throw your pretty stuff on top. as long as the curing is done correctly it should hold up just fine for interior pieces.

03-17-2003, 11:50 AM	#1
Jeff240sx I hate you too... Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 42 Posts: 5,828 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Jeff240sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Why is CF so damned expensive?? So yea. I have been researching on how to make stuff from CF, and I can totally do it. So, I have some chipped trim pieces in my interior, and wanted to remake them. I also need to make a place under the CD player to hold an AFC and AVC. Carbon Fiber seems to be the way to go. So, I go happily looking online to find CF mats and resins, thinking I'll spend like $50 per piece. Hell no! It's like $130 for a 36"x54" sheet of CF, and $70 for a gallon of resin. Then add $20 for HazMat handling, and crap! Not to mention that you need like 3 or 4 layers for strength. So.. out of this, I've realized something. If you spend $300 on a CF hood... well... Let's just say that I can't even make a $300 hood myself. Sorry.. I'm just astounded by the price. It's not like I'm asking for new-age stealth RAM stuff. -Jeff __________________ Whatup?

03-17-2003, 04:57 PM	#4
Phlip Yes, I look like that Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In my supervillain's lair Posts: 27,980 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: Phlip Feedback Score: 19 reviews	www.aircraftspruce.com for the best prices on composites... The resins, on the other hand, are gonna cost you either way... Jeff, you remember last week when I was telling you about FBOs, check your local airport and see who does general aviation aircraft maintenence and call them, see what they charge for resin and they won't have to charge for for the HazMat or shipping. __________________ Weirdo And I write too!

03-17-2003, 12:20 PM	#2
Kid Zelda BANNED Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,347 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	IIRC, most "CF" hoods are just fiberglass with one layer of "CF" on top for the look.

03-17-2003, 02:12 PM	#3
91CRXsiR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: City of Industry, CA [626] Age: 42 Posts: 2,092 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	real carbon fibre is real space age stuff... tunerz CF is just lookalike CF you can just sheets of the sticker kind and make anything you want. its pretty cheap if you are going for the "look"

03-17-2003, 07:28 PM	#5
king_johnthegreat Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 46 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	To make stuff look cool, it is easy. To make stuff right, that is actually strong and proper, you'll spend lots of dough. I actually do make structural/load bearing/fine finish parts and even vehicles out of CF. To do it right, you need to know the application, the call for the right weight matte, weave, resin, how it wets out, the Tg value, the volume of resin to matte... just to name a FEW. To make parts correctly, also, you need to use a vacuum bag process, and post cure the parts. Most of the time, high end manufacturers do not buy the resin and matte separetely only to mix it themselves, they buy pre-preg material. The pre-preg costs a WHOLE LOT more. Not only is the material completely ready, it has to be done first, and believe me you are paying royally for that prep. The shipping is another thing altogether. Pre-preg must be refridgerated, so you can only imagine how fun it is to work with. Besides the material, you must also consider tooling. All the crappy hoods, like the ones with waves, yeah; they were done on a bad mold, taken from a bad plug, laid by a total moron, using material he probably didn't use right, and certainly didn't cure properly, or post cure for that matter. For a roll of the good stuff, my company would spend over $3000 dollars. For the right stuff to finish the job, double that. Now take into consideration that there are only a limited number of products that can be made from that roll. If you make CNC plugs or molds, you are making great parts, but they cost a small fortune. For manual labor, it is less costly, but you still have to pay the shlep-rock doing the work. It gets expensive to do this kind of business, so all that cost, plus profit, has to be garnered from the retail price. It is a science to the business man in charge, and a skilled artistry to the man who actually does it. There is no room for error in a production facility. I'm not trying to bash anyone who wants to try it over paying for it. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, either; just sharing some insider info. I get the "Your 3!@# is sooo expensive........." line a whole lot. Yeah, there is a reason for that; we don't get it in looking like a hood already...... John

03-17-2003, 07:57 PM	#6
slideways240 Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: columbus-ohio Age: 48 Posts: 107 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	my brother made some rather primative CF interior pieces. they actually came out looking good, but it was all flat pieces. like a flat piece cut out for guages...flat piece to fill the airbag hole with guages...wanted to do more but didn't want to invest in the vacuum pump thing....anyway you can save a ton of cash by buying the structural cf.it doesn't have a fancy weave to it but you can layer it up and throw your pretty stuff on top. as long as the curing is done correctly it should hold up just fine for interior pieces.