S14 zenki HID pictures request!!!

[RBS14]

^^^^^

If by "lenses" you mean reflectors, you are correct. The biggest difference is that the arc in the HID capsule is in a different location than the stock filament. The reflector is built with a particular light source and intensity in mind, and when you move that source, and change the intensity, you get less than optimal results. So if the source is in approximately the right position/location, you won't get too much glare. This is the main reason that zenkis (originally H4) create such horrible glare, the arc is rotated 90 degrees from the positioning of the H4 filament, and the hot spots of an arc are in different places than the hotspot of a filament, wich just compunds the effect. Then, like you said, the fluted lenses make it even worse.

And people always say "aim it down to correct." That's not a viable option when the glare is shooting everywhere from the trees above your hood down to the road, and everywhere inbetween. Aiming it isn't gonna reduce the glare, it's just going to move it to some other location. However, that new location will never be on the road.

Bottom line is that you DO get better light ouput and beam pattern with a retrofit. No way to argue that. The only question is whether you are willing to do a retro, or if a drop-in kit will suffice for you.

[Jeff240sx]

Originally Posted by zenkiticks

I agree with that ^^^^. I am not sure just yet if I want to mess with nasty zenki lenses to do it, hence my request for pictures. Some of those look okay, and a couple look really bad, like huge bluish purple glowing masses at night, NOT like "sweet, that guy's got a HID kit" kinda thing as you're coming down the road.

I've never seen purple glowing orbs radiating from anyone's headlights. It's a camera issue. Purple fringing. Let me find another pic for ya.



vs.



Pictures of the same location, from the same spot. Just different cameras.
See the same pair of street lights? The 2nd picture (Cannon A85) has bad purple fringing, and makes them look like big purple orbs. It's camera trickery, as you can see.. because the 1st picture (Sony DSC-V3) doesn't have it.
-Jeff

[RBS14]

It's both. Camera sucks and there is a ton of glare.

[Jeff240sx]

Originally Posted by RBS14

^^^^^

If by "lenses" you mean reflectors, you are correct.

And people always say "aim it down to correct." That's not a viable option when the glare is shooting everywhere from the trees above your hood down to the road, and everywhere inbetween.

Bottom line is that you DO get better light ouput and beam pattern with a retrofit. No way to argue that. The only question is whether you are willing to do a retro, or if a drop-in kit will suffice for you.

You're right on the reflectors. However, it's not a terrible issue with the zenki reflectors. And my gf's cougar didn't make an issue of it, either.

Retrofitters always exasperate the issue. Glare in the trees and behind you and the car directly to the left. Come on. I have seen only one guy with horrid glare. He used a cheapass kit and even cheaper conversion housings, and blinded me from the side. However, every picture of a kit taken, my gf's cougar


And the guy in his garage, and s14db posted in another thread, none of them are terrible. None of them are blinding other drivers that I can see. So yes, if there is a slight glare above the recommended light height, you can just aim them down.

I'm not saying that retrofitting is a waste of time. It does look better. It's just not necessary. And you guys all get together, jerk off and bash kits while taking about how cool retrofitting is. Once you lose the elitist attitude about it (not just you rbs14, but you never seem to get off your retrofit throne), then you'll see that for alot of people the added time, labor and expense isn't worth it. And there is no harm done to other drivers.

You want to know what's dangerous? Escalades with their HIDs while you are in a standard height car. That's high intensity discharge directly into my eyes, rearview and sideview mirrors. No piss-poor kit could compete with the blinding that high SUVs give to low cars.
-Jeff

[RBS14]

well certain things are important to certain people, and others may never understand why it's important to that person. However I do not understand how I'm being elitist about this topic (although I realize I am that way about most things). The only comment I've made that could be misconstrewn that way was the "make whatever justifications/excuses" one. whatever.

I've been stating facts, it's just that people don't want to accept them. OEM's havn't thrown millions and millions of dollars into developing HID specific reflectors and projectors for no reason. It's because they are better, and I don't mean that in a condesending way. If I was so eletist about this, I wouldn't have taken the time to explain why HID kits make more glare.

I agree, retrofitting is not necessary, definately not for everyone. I stated that in the post at the top of this page.

Oh yeah, and the thread you locked a couple weeks ago on the same topic that you told me to chill out, I was being sarcastic but I guess I didn't lay it on thick enough.

[Jeff240sx]

Guess I didn't get the sarcasm. Also - seeing as I forgot about that thread, I'm really not just chasing you around to badger you. Good to know you aren't a "with us or against us" person. But I can't believe that anything other than the original technology for HID cost millions for a car manufacturer. I'd bet that even I - in a well equipped shop, can build a projector and lens assembly.
-Jeff

[Slidin240Wayz]

For some more input I have these to show. And I have fixed the cutoff on the driver side.
Hello Everyone,
All the way at the bottom.
I promised the comparison pics.
The covers came out great but the output was horrible (unsafe). Now there is a huge difference. If you have any comments or questions please feel free to post them.
Before:






After:





Wishing you all the best,
Los

[dct223]

with the h4 drop in kit i put in... yes there is more scattered light cus of no projector.. but im not having people flash me cus im blinding them... and i dont have my headlights pointing STRAIGHT into the ground... i guess the lil shield on the ballast helps. Also ive driven behind my friends cars, and they tell me they have no problem, no eye irritation, not getting blinded etc etc etc... if i had more time and money id retrofit a projector for my drop in kit.. to get that clean super sharp cut off.. but im happy on how my results are for a 270 dollar drop in kit that took 20 min to install... so i could care less


and i agree with Jeff... SUV's with HID's blind the crap outta me even on a stock sedan.

[nrg]

SilviaSR20DET and MrSkinny; That's now the correct way of taking pictures of HID. We don't care what it looks like when looking at the car. We're more consern about the cutoff and sharpness with very little glare.

Digital camera is very hard to capature the correct light tempature. I can make halogen bulbs look like HID with a few ap fs iso settings.

People raise SUV and never adjust thier headlights. This is why many people get blind, hid or not.

Do it cheap and fast you end up with shitty results. Do it slow and correctly the first time, you end up with awesome results. Retrofiting is the way to go.

Retrofiting is like an engine swap UPGRADE for headlights.
I'm rich BATCHH..., I blew 550 bucks for my retrofiting lol!

edit: All of the hid kit pictures in this thread are cars with 4-5ft of distance from the wall. PARK THE CAR 20-25FT FROM THE WALL!! and try taking the picture. This is the actual distance DOT uses to aim their headlights.

[zenkiticks]

Originally Posted by nrg

SilviaSR20DET and MrSkinny; That's now the correct way of taking pictures of HID. We don't care what it looks like when looking at the car. We're more consern about the cutoff and sharpness with very little glare.

actually I DID want to see what they looked like from the front, not beam patterns and such. Even if the beams aren't perfect like stock razor sharp cut-off and no glare, a drop-in kit vastly outperforms halogens, and retrofitting vastly outperforms a drop-in kit. we don't need to keep hammering that into the ground anymore.

[RBS14]

Originally Posted by Jeff240sx

I'd bet that even I - in a well equipped shop, can build a projector and lens assembly.

well if you know and understand optical physics to a T, I bet you could.



this link is a good read about the specifics of why HID burners in halogen reflectors/projectors is less than optimal.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

[Jeff240sx]

Originally Posted by RBS14

well if you know and understand optical physics to a T, I bet you could.



this link is a good read about the specifics of why HID burners in halogen reflectors/projectors is less than optimal.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

Optical physics? Bullshit. Build a rectangular cone, and bring in the edges until you get the light dispersion you want. Followed by a projector lens with a thicker cutoff line to give a prismatic effect..
It's not OEM, is better than a drop-in kit, and me in a well equipped shop can do it for less than $$millions. Really, I don't think anything but the original technology took million$ to make. After that, it's just slight modifications to tried-and-true lenses/reflectors.
-Jeff

[RBS14]

Yeah, millions into developing the technology. There is a reason they spent all that money, that's what I'm saying. Also, it's the super thin cutoff shields that give the most color. the color at the cutoff is actually light bending around the edge of the shield. The more razor sharp it is,the more color you get. Also different lenses on the projectors affect color too.

However, I do think designing projectors is a bit harder than what you depict, but whatever.

cheers.

[nrg]

Originally Posted by zenkiticks

actually I DID want to see what they looked like from the front, not beam patterns and such. Even if the beams aren't perfect like stock razor sharp cut-off and no glare, a drop-in kit vastly outperforms halogens, and retrofitting vastly outperforms a drop-in kit. we don't need to keep hammering that into the ground anymore.

If the drop in kit is installed correctly with the right color temp. Then it would outperform halogen. I've seen kits that dont put enough light on the ground. Lumens from an 8000K and up kit is just as good as halogen bulbs.

If you want the HID "look", why not buy the 9.99 ricer bulbs they sell at autozone?

[dct223]

when im not busy ill take a better pic... the ones i posted are the only ones i had on my comp... anyways... i think anything more than a 6000K is rediculous.... if the GB didnt change i would have gotten a 4300K....

its just like fake blue bulbs.. even though they are more volatage or something to be brighter, they have more scattered light that doesnt go on to the road.. same with HID kits, lower the temp the more light on the ground... one of the reasons why EVERYONE hates on drop in kits... cus some stupid asses get like a 10,000K to be cool and put it in their civic and blind the @#$#$@ outta everyone

[Jeff240sx]

Depends on teh kit. 3200 lumens is about the brightest I've seen (from phillips) at 6000K. Kaixen are 3150lu, and 8500k go down to 2400lu. That's still ~2x more light than halogens.
-Jeff

[zenkiticks]

Originally Posted by nrg

If you want the HID "look", why not buy the 9.99 ricer bulbs they sell at autozone?

please don't start that shit here. you obviously have gotten the wrong impression.

[reccakun08]

stock halogen on my 240 flip light SUCK!

[p0onsta]

guys, i hate bumping old threads, but I'll do it this once because this seems to be the most honest and least-cluttered informational thread on zenki HIDs that I can find. allow me to post a ramble from another forum and a picture from my own:

just try to read and understand. i think it might be useful...

hid kits for halogens aren't as simple as "not designed for it, impossible, don't do it, do it right"

many of us here have used these sorts of kits before, and we all have different results.

the truth of the matter is, there's only 3 real reasons why hid kits don't work perfectly in halogens. 1 being that the light source is of a different shape, 2 being that the light source is of a different location, and 3 being that the light source is of a different orientation, all when compared to its halogen counterparts.

orientation is the key player here. HIDs will only have its output longitudinal to the bulb, like how the filament is in an H4 bulb or how the engine is in an FR, and NOT an H3 bulb or how an engine is in an FF. Note that if the light source is of a different orientation, the kit will inherently FAIL in terms of glare and light scatter, and if they manage to put in enough shielding for that, they will STILL FAIL in terms of light output. Why get HIDs that are 10x brighter and shield out 90% of the output, for example?

the light source's location can be fine tuned, and with a combination of the proper orientation and a good base from a quality company, you're 80% of the way there. i'm going to take a whack and say that most HID companies can center their HID bases properly. The only matter of question here is the depth of the mounting. A comparison could be drawn by anybody who has glasses and has kept their eyes open looking through the lens while putting them on. The image is distorted until the glasses seat properly on your face, and even then, it takes a little getting used to. Light goes both ways, and if the light source is positioned at the wrong depth, the output will be out of focus and distorted. read: it will scatter to all the wrong places.

the light source's shape, you can not control. halogen filaments have the light output shape of an oval, or almost a round-ended football. HIDs have a peanut shaped output. halogens >55w have a larger oval, and the light from this larger oval was not taken into account when OEMs design their headlights. you can rarely take someone else's glasses and have them work perfectly for you right? be sometimes it's "good enough"? That's the concept of why "competition h4's" are acceptable, but since most of our cheap cars have plastic headlights, it won't work too well.
In comes the HID peanut. the 35w HID peanut is just about the same size as the 55w halogen football, with the peanut being only slightly larger than the football. The areas where the peanut is larger is what causes the glare. the way this glare is treated is different on a case-by-case basis. i'm sure we've all seen chromed out headlights on certain cars and then get superseded by blacked out headlights of the same design. the change is aesthetic, but the output is unchanged, and that's because the areas blacked out are unused. However, if it's a chromed out headlight, this glare will bounce off the shiney, supposedly unused areas. If such is the case, black out those areas, and you will have less glare. Cars with fluted lenses like the s14 zenki are okay, since the fluting was meant to COMPLETELY scatter whatever light hits it, to illuminate road signs and reflector strips.
the NHTSA has provisions for a set amount of "light bleed through" that's allowed for the purpose of lighting up these signs. that's the reason why different oem HIDs have differing cutoff sharpnesses and still all pass the gov't standards, but that's a different story altogether. basically, if bentley or rolls royce wanted to implement a projector that works like the movie theater projectors, they can, since they're pretty much no-expenses-withheld. but they didn't. guess why? makes like BMW that have near-movie-theater-projector cutoffs for HIDs also have those "angel eyes" to illuminate said signs and such, so if you retrofit, be sure to have these provisions in as well. last thing you want is to upgrade your lighting to have perfect vision on the road and not be able to see a deer that's running into the highway, an idiot with a primer paint job and no headlights, or worse, a homeless guy crossing the street.
back on topic...So this is why a halogen HID kit will NEVER be as good as HID lighting designed from ground up. but i truly believe that proper orientation, positioning of the bulb, and design/slight-modification of the enclosure can get you 90% of the way there. at least on s14 zenki's they do.
so how does HID net a higher output? because the center of its peanut is HIGHER INTENSITY than the center of the halogen football. However, the area of highest intensity is smaller in the peanut than it is in the football. because of this, you will ALWAYS get a MORE NOTICEABLE bright spot. the bright spot does exist in the halogen application, just less noticeable. drive up close to a wall and you'll see it bright and clear.

so to sum it all up, i wanted hids, i wanted better output, i wanted at least a halfway decent cutoff, and i absolutely did not want to blind people. so i did my research, and bought a good kit. i also took 10 hours to buff my yellow headlights as seen at Club Spirited Drive • View topic - Renewing Plastic Headlamps.... i wish i had a power buffer. 10 hours by hand is still not as good as it could be. just imagine the glasses issue. if there's residue on it, it will illuminate with light, like glasses do when dirty. when it's clean...you can figure the rest out. i'm done ranting.

and how can i back all these up? i can't, but 2 years of on and off research and development by HID suppliers led to this conclusion, and i have a nasty habit of not keeping my sources. a fellow member here had a kit, and he says just do it if you want it, and i saw his output, which was good, before i went with my setup. if any of you have the backing data on this, please post. questions? please ask


5k HID Drop-Ins.

Click on the picture on this post to view the hi-res version. More details upon request:
Club Spirited Drive • View topic - Kitty's Picture of the Day

[s14unimog]

Good information... A necessary bump IMO.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by p0onsta

More details upon request:

I'm gonna go ahead and request the details.

I hate my headlights.

[p0onsta]

I cleaned up the headlights following the procedure here:
Club Spirited Drive • View topic - Renewing Plastic Headlamps...

That eliminates most of the glare from the light shattering on the lens itself.

They key is to then get the drop in kit from a manufacturer who actually properly places the light source. I got the 35w bi-xenon h4 kit from ddmtuning, 5000K. the 55w kit will have more upwards glare.