s14 is a lot stiffer than s13?

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
yeah i can

i drove both cars. STOCK AND STOCK. very very different.

also tried both at the track. very different type of cars.

and comparing BUSHINGS and chassis is night and day. your talking the WHOLE CAR verses a couple bushings? hahahaha..get real. if you blind fold me and put me in either car, i cou ltell you which is s14 and which is s13 without a problem.

strut tower braces? at the track. GOD YES. have you removed it and tried with or without one? i have. i even did it DURING the day to see how it feels? did you try that yet?

have you ACTUALLY driven a s14 or just talking out of your ass?

stop reading books and start trying things first hand, mr.-stomp-on-the-gas-to-stop-understeer.

I don't think he was talking directly to you Aaron. Just in general, he was making a point that most of the "Intarnet Drifta's" given either car, would never know the difference. I believe we all should know by now that you are definately not a poser.

I can tell you that I would NOT track an s14 over an s13. I have also driven both, and much prefer the s13. While chassis stiffness is marginally different b/w them, 200lbs of weight is VERY noticable. Most of the s13's, or 240sx for that matter, that I have driven that understeer are simply TOO LOW. People go beyond the limits of the suspension, and the the car reacts by pushing through every corner.

RobsNismo - Look around.. Do-luck, NAMS, Cusco, Kazama, D-speed, bla, bla, bla, etc.. all make chassis stiffening parts for the s13.

[aznpoopy]

Most of the s13's, or 240sx for that matter, that I have driven that understeer are simply TOO LOW. People go beyond the limits of the suspension, and the the car reacts by pushing through every corner.

i can attest to that. my car came with lowered springs on stock struts. very gay. in the post-apex corner if i'm near my limit the car will start to understeer pretty badly. it only oversteers if i REALLY jerk the car during in the corner entry. basically i have compromised handling. saving up for kyb/prokit... was actually considering getting someone's used s14 stock suspension for the interim...

[Dousan_PG]

thats because people only slam their car. they dont think of replacing/adjusting the rest of the suspension.

my car is low ad getting lower, but i have also replaced some important components to compromise that lowness.

cant just slam the car and expect it to handle the same. there's more to suspension then coilovers or just shocks and springs.

[aznpoopy]

dousan36, is there any site you reccomend to learn more about suspension? please help me overcome rice and mechanical ignorace.

[Dousan_PG]

sites ...er..not really that i know of off hand.

books there are quite a lot. just visit the local bookstore and libraries

just google around, read read and talk with knowledgable suspension folks (not me). i just am still learning little by little.

[the240sxer95]

examples of other suspension compents that shuld be changed? i have an idea of what (but dont wanna be made an ass of LOL)

[old_s13]

Dousan> and comparing BUSHINGS and chassis is night and day. your talking the WHOLE CAR verses a couple bushings? hahahaha..get real. if you blind fold me and put me in either car, i cou ltell you which is s14 and which is s13 without a problem.

haha yeah, the S13 will try to slice your head off with its automagique seatbelts.. while the s14 you can sit comfortably in since it doesnt have those NASTY curved seats like the S13!!! I'm tellin ya, if there's ever an improvement with the S14.. it was the seats and seatbelts. Everything else I could easily do without.

I agree with Dousan though, bushings will only give you a tighter SUSPENSION feel.. chassis on the other hand, doesnt take much more than a few steep driveways to realize. Go close your hatch while on a driveway at an angle, tell me how it feels to see your hatch not close! haha s13 for life baby.. nothing a roll cage cant fix. Although my chassis issues are not 100% gone, they are a LOT better now with all the suspension stiffening components and braces.


stop reading books and start trying things first hand, mr.-stomp-on-the-gas-to-stop-understeer.

hey man! hehe not all of us PREFER oversteer.. my car will understeer when taken to the limit, its not a bad characteristic.. just a driver's preference. Over steer is nice and all, but there are many times when I am driving grip that I'de rather not have the back end kick out on me. Hmm but then again, I have bald RE730's in the front with close-to-new FK451's in the rear.. yeah, funky.

[Dousan_PG]

oh btw. mike when you come to track you can drive my car. that night you drove it, my slave cylinder was dying (im sure you noticed) it pumped its last...pump? the next day. it was a long day after work..hahaha

alignment and misc tuning today and test in vegas. so..my car is quite different.

yeah it is stiff and oversteers easily. i could change the setup for a grip/neutral type, but i dont do that as much as drift. change tire size compensates if need more grip. soon will be wider in back for grip heh..dont want to oversteer in those places......

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
thats because people only slam their car. they dont think of replacing/adjusting the rest of the suspension.

my car is low ad getting lower, but i have also replaced some important components to compromise that lowness.

cant just slam the car and expect it to handle the same. there's more to suspension then coilovers or just shocks and springs.

this is very true, and with proper adjustable links, you can compensate to a degree. BUT, there is still a limit. Unless you can actually move the mounting point for the toe links higer on the subframe, you will still be limited by sharp toe changes.

Fyi for you other guys.. you need adjustable upper traction links, and lower adjustable toe links, as well as adjustable upper camber arms. It's the REAR suspension's multi-link setup that your fighting when lowering the car. This stuff is NOT cheap, and usually comes with high maintenance pillowballs that will not only increase Noise, vibration, and harshness, they will also wear over time, and develop slop, and have to be replaced. Unless you are pushing your car to the limit (I mean, you, as a driver, actually have the capability to push your car that far), you will NOT see an increase in performance adding these to your car. As a novice, or even intermediate driver, there are a BILLION different ways to spend money on the car that will actually help you.

Mike - LOL.. SO TRUE!.. I hate when I jack my car using the frame rails behind the firewall, and then try to open the door, only to find the damn the stuck b/c of chassis flex!

[thx247]

aimed at the internet drifters that drift and hit a firewall dousan.

Anyway I don't really care about the gas on understeer thing. I made a mistake based on some experinces I have, went out and read about some things, drove on the track some more and now I know why I was wrong.

Kills me that I bought some KVR's based on what you wrote about them though. Its all good though, I should have done more research but was pressed for time.

[RobsNismO]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
RobsNismo - Look around.. Do-luck, NAMS, Cusco, Kazama, D-speed, bla, bla, bla, etc.. all make chassis stiffening parts for the s13.

i know about those companies, i was asking what specific parts, names of the parts, like strut bars, lower tie bars or whatever. i was asking if theres anything else that i might not know about, things that are rarely done that no one really has, or cause its too expensive that no one even bothers doing.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by thx247
aimed at the internet drifters that drift and hit a firewall dousan.

Anyway I don't really care about the gas on understeer thing. I made a mistake based on some experinces I have, went out and read about some things, drove on the track some more and now I know why I was wrong.

Kills me that I bought some KVR's based on what you wrote about them though. Its all good though, I should have done more research but was pressed for time.

kvrs from my personal track expirience had absolutely no problems. same goes for abotu 3 of my friends annd i bought them on past reviews from other folks

just like any thing you buy, it might not be the same expirience as someone else. my time w/ kvrs on the track, grip, in the middle of july at willow springs, on a hot summer's day, i had absolutely no problems whatsoever. used them for a good 4-5 track events after that too along w/ the 6 months daily driving. i removed them (still in semi decen shape, could have went another event) when i changed to z brakes.

its not my fault you had problems with them. go cry to KVR, not me. i could care less. boo-f'in-hoo.

dood, even newbies, non drifters could tell a s14 from a s13, its still obviously you never drove either one. its ok to admit it. you wont look so foolish then.

[thx247]

Originally posted by dousan36
dood, even newbies, non drifters could tell a s14 from a s13, its still obviously you never drove either one. its ok to admit it. you wont look so foolish then.

While I may not have a complete grasp of vehicle dynamics, I can at least comprehend sentences.

Where exactly did I say there was no difference between a S13 and a S14? Maybe its right there where I said or implied I drove an S14!

how many of you guys would even know what a stiffer chassis feels like? If I swapped bushings in my s13 do you think you'd be able to feel it and tell me that there were different bushings in the car?

Nope not there!

Just like if I added a strut tower brace to the front and rear- do you think you'd be able to say without knowing its there that I had one?

Hmm nope...

Unless floor boards are falling off the car ala FnF style I don't think many people here would be able to comment very accurately on the chassis stiffness.

Ah here is where I mentioned the difference between a S13 and S14! Er....hm

So lets assume I am correct for a second and what are we left with? A more expensive heavier car. Imo, get the cheap S13 if you have to have a 240 to drift or whatever. Its not like the car is losing value anymore anyway. Drive it, see how you like it. Appreciate the savings you have and then worry about something so vauge as chassis stiffness.

I can rewrite it if you like. But I think it was clear enough as it was.

Originally posted by dousan36

its not my fault you had problems with them. go cry to KVR, not me. i could care less. boo-f'in-hoo.

I'm not crying to you dousan, I'm just upset with myself that for a minute I listened to your opinion. Why don't you go brag in another thread about how much money you save with your hookups and save me the trouble of replying again.

[old_s13]

Shuttup.

:)

Okay, thats my post.

[tsunami0ne]

LOL

[vinyladdic7ion]

I'm not crying to you dousan, I'm just upset with myself that for a minute I listened to your opinion. Why don't you go brag in another thread about how much money you save with your hookups and save me the trouble of replying again.

PWNED! thx247

[TRUENOCOUPE]

KVR's??? Im not on anyones sides but KVR's for track racing?

Man... Whoever makes a goddamn review on those pads of how good they are are, They are not driving right or can't drive for shiet. Well its good for newbies...

Stock pads can probably perform a lot better than those KVR's.