SPL TC rods gone bad

[95se]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I guess I'll be upgrading SPL or just getting new heims (bearings) but don't know how hard it would be to change the ends out and whether or not they would be v2 or 3. Either way there is no guarantee that the v3 will last any longer because they haven't been out that long. I have to make decision soon. Tonight I hit a a groove in the highway and practically lost it.. I can here the front making noise every time I hit the brakes. I guess I thought since I read somewhere that the rods had sealed bearings that there would never be a problem so I was surprised when this happened.

Originally Posted by zombiewolf513

Because SPL parts are expensive. Expensive compared to many of the common brands offering the same kinds of parts.

and thats the point i am trying to make

expensive compared to what? common brands arent even on the same quality level, they're trash and not worth comparing to. its like the products i sell, try to find me something equivalent and then we can talk.

compare rappers for instance. tupac vs biggie. i mean, theres no question about it, biggie wasnt even on the same playing field.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by bbturbo87

the best?

my friend had spl parts, one day pulling out of his parking spot the spl outter tie rod broke, we threw them away and said screw this. how many versions of tie rods do they have? seems to me like they just throw shit out there, guessing, not enough engineering behind it if they have 20 gens of tie rods by now. gen 3 of arms? why not just making it top notch from the start?

I'm guessing you didn't read the instructions were it says you can't torque to top nut to more than 20ft/lbs or it will severely weaken the shank? You probably just wrenched the mess out of it, therefore they broke.

Just because you installed them wrong doesn't mean SPL doesn't make a great product.

They JUST came out with the v5's that can handle 40ft/lbs. I have them on my car and they're great. Had the v3's on my other car and they were great as well.

WD40 is what SPL recommends so that's what I use. I just spray them and wipe them with a rag whenever I wash my car.

[articdragon192]

Those heim joints can last a good while. I'm on 4 years and over 100k miles worth on my Aurora joints in my tension rods, and 5 years worth with about 140k miles on my toe rods. Just clean them out every so often with WD40 and they'll be fine.
And replacing the rod end of the tension rod is as easy are screwing out the rod end and screwing in the new end. Simple fix.

[zombiewolf513]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

and thats the point i am trying to make

expensive compared to what? common brands arent even on the same quality level, they're trash and not worth comparing to. its like the products i sell, try to find me something equivalent and then we can talk.

compare rappers for instance. tupac vs biggie. i mean, theres no question about it, biggie wasnt even on the same playing field.

No kidding, the parts aren't on the same level. But compare cars for instance, you can hardly compare the over all of a 240sx to an R35. But it doesn't change that people have different budgets. Because, not only are you paying more for the rod ends, but they'll only fit on the Z32 or z33 inners you now need to buy. That's about $140 over, and double the cost of, circuit sports ends.

Which brings me back to my original stance on OP's subject, $120 to upgrade to the V5 ends is a hell of a deal. You should go with option "SPL trade-up."

[nisco]

Sorry if this is a bit off the topic.Since there are people in this thread that actually know how these parts function and maintenance them properly, I want to know if anybody has tried the Fortune Auto arms that came out recently. Are they well built or any better than SPLs? Im trying to decide which to go with.
Thanks!

[word sux]

Dupont makes a teflon spray. I wonder if this would be optimal???


they sell it at homedepot

[word sux]

Originally Posted by zombiewolf513

No kidding, the parts aren't on the same level. But compare cars for instance, you can hardly compare the over all of a 240sx to an R35. But it doesn't change that people have different budgets. Because, not only are you paying more for the rod ends, but they'll only fit on the Z32 or z33 inners you now need to buy. That's about $140 over, and double the cost of, circuit sports ends.

Which brings me back to my original stance on OP's subject, $120 to upgrade to the V5 ends is a hell of a deal. You should go with option "SPL trade-up."

yea I love that spl does that when a new version comes out!

and I have heard some horror stories of the pillow balls on the megan rod ends dropping right out. I would rather spend the extra coin and be safe, plus your money with spl is staying in america not going to sweat shops in taiwan

Originally Posted by zombiewolf513

No kidding, the parts aren't on the same level. But compare cars for instance, you can hardly compare the over all of a 240sx to an R35. But it doesn't change that people have different budgets. Because, not only are you paying more for the rod ends, but they'll only fit on the Z32 or z33 inners you now need to buy. That's about $140 over, and double the cost of, circuit sports ends.

it this case, budget does not apply. if you want to "keep on budget" do what this idiot does, and what numerous of us old-schoolers have been doing for decades now: take your OE arms and slot them. i didnt feel like spending money on adjustable arms because i personally dont think they're important or necessary. as long as your bushings are good and you can get the proper alignment settings you need, that's all that matters. too many people lower their car to get some crazy unrealistic non-performing geometry. generally speaking, most if not all street cars just need a bit of camber adjustment in the rear and the front.. camber plates.

imo, you're better off stock than wasting time with circuit sports or megan.

[zombiewolf513]

ifxfi: imo, you're better off stock than wasting time with circuit sports or megan.

word sux: I would rather spend the extra coin and be safe, plus your money with spl is staying in america not going to sweat shops in taiwan

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by 95se

My SPL TC rods V.2 have rusted out around the bearings after about 3yrs of use. SPL replied saying I could replace the bearings for $20 or upgrade to V.3 rods for $121. What is my best option? Or should I go with another brand? The rods could have rust around the area of where the bearing is so even it the bearings are replaced that might not solve the problem. The new ones might not be that much better either. There is no guarantee that they will last longer than these. I thought these had sealed bearings so they were some of the better ones on the market but 3 years is disappointing.

Unfortunately bearings are a wear item and they do eventually need to be replaced. Our v2 tension rods was released in 2005, and featured low replacement cost 3/4" rod ends with Seals-It rod end seals. The seals were fairly new back in 2005, and unfortunately what we have found over the long term is that the seals do not hold up. Corrosion and longevity is one of the things we addressed with our v3 tension rods:

SPL announces v3 tension rods

The bearings on our v3 tension rods will provide you with a longer service life than the v2 tension rods, however please understand that bearings are wear parts and do eventually need replacing. FWIW, our upgrade price is very close to our manufacturing cost, our trade-up program is offered a service to our existing customers.

Originally Posted by bbturbo87

my friend had spl parts, one day pulling out of his parking spot the spl outter tie rod broke, we threw them away and said screw this. how many versions of tie rods do they have? seems to me like they just throw shit out there, guessing, not enough engineering behind it if they have 20 gens of tie rods by now. gen 3 of arms? why not just making it top notch from the start?

I do not know the circumstances of this failure, but I would have addressed it if the customer contacted me. Our v4 and v5 tie rod ends are used by many race teams (eg. Chris Forsberg and Dai Yoshihara), without any issues.

But I can see you seem to have some animosity towards us:

I'll just wait until the version 10 when they finally get it right

I do not know what set you off against us, but I note that PBM (who you seem to favor) is on version 2 on their rear arms as well. No product is so perfect that it cannot be improved on, that is true for everything from iPhones to Ferraris. Our tie rod ends and tension rods have been on the market for a long time (2005 for our tie rod ends, 2003 for our tension rods), we have made improvements on these products over the years, we will continue to make improvements on them, and we will make these improvements available to our customers at as low a price as possible.

[zombiewolf513]

^The awesome costumer service at work.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Unfortunately bearings are a wear item and they do eventually need to be replaced.

Hello Mr Kuah
I have messaged you before requesting that SPL someday make a piece like this:



^ Adjustable suspension arm w/ Nismo hard rubber bushing

I would just like to re-state that I am highly interested in a suspension arm like this, if SPL should ever release it. Based on appearance alone, I am assuming that its just a matter of custom making the end piece without having to re-engineer the current SPL arm design.

Please take my request into consideration.

Respectfully,
Mike / ClearCorners

ps: Make these fucking things, PLEASE!!!

[bshotts]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

I would just like to re-state that I am highly interested in a suspension arm like this, if SPL should ever release it. Based on appearance alone, I am assuming that its just a matter of custom making the end piece without having to re-engineer the current SPL arm design.

Mike, you should look into SPC suspension arms. I ditched my Peak Performance ones with sphericals for the SPC; full adjustability and a hard durometer rubber bushing for a bit more compliant ride. Also, they are powdercoated black for a more OEM appearance. Front tension rods, rear UCA, tension, and camber.
Specialty Products Company - SPC Alignment

[hellion240sx]

Kuah wins again! Just awesome

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

^ Adjustable suspension arm w/ Nismo hard rubber bushing

The main issue is the cost of the Nismo bushings, added to the cost of the arm that can get pretty expensive (they would have to be priced $50+ more than our regular arms), and my concern is the limited market at that point.

SPC does offer arms like that but the quality of the welds and materials is not that great, they are also very heavy (bad for unsprung weight), and I have had alot of SPC arms traded in with cracked bushings, the bushing quality/durability isn't there. So OEM/Nismo bushings would be the way to go, except then the cost gets in the way...

[Phate]

I'll be buying SPL parts.

[HayaiSaru]

Upgrade to Aurora ends or FK ends

QA1's strongest 1/2" bore 3/4" shank rod end has an ult. radial static load capicity of 11385 lbs. Auora's strongest in the same dimensions is 40000 lbs.

What would you feel safer with?

[singlecamslam]

I contacted QA1, They said they get some of their bearings from china and wont have a shipment of bearings for a few months. called FK bearings (made in america) got my bearings a few days later. 30 bucks a bearing though. SPL suspension parts build quality is greater than the rivals, i had several different ones and SPL is the best. And if you think about it they are not that much more expensive than the competition unless you're buying megan, than get mad when they break and you smash your car.

[HayaiSaru]

I know the offroad truck guys will only use aurora and fk bearings. qa1 is considered lower end.

QA1 - China
Aurora - America
FK - America

Originally Posted by bshotts

Mike, you should look into SPC suspension arms.

Already looked into SPC a LOOOONG time ago. Remember, all day every day I speak with customers.. not 240 owners, customers with cars that usually cost more than 1,000.00 USD. Cars like 350Z, NSX, etc... I've heard about SPC (from my customers) and the quality is just not there. I am not saying that hear-say is 100% factual information, but when you get X amount of people saying things, it effects my personal decision.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

The main issue is the cost of the Nismo bushings, added to the cost of the arm that can get pretty expensive (they would have to be priced $50+ more than our regular arms), and my concern is the limited market at that point.

SPC does offer arms like that but the quality of the welds and materials is not that great, they are also very heavy (bad for unsprung weight), and I have had alot of SPC arms traded in with cracked bushings, the bushing quality/durability isn't there. So OEM/Nismo bushings would be the way to go, except then the cost gets in the way...

Mr Kuah

Thank you for taking the time out of your very busy day to respond to this feeble request.

Jokes aside, trust me.. I know what you mean especially when you are building a product based on another mfg's product. Not only does pricing fluctuate with NISSAN goods, but availability also changes and unfortunately, parts like these Nismo bushings have been getting harder and harder to acquire. A quick search through my million posts and I'm sure you can digup a thread where I had a hell of a time locating rear lower control arm bushings. Eventually, some of the nissan dealers stepped up to the plate and managed to locate them. Items like the diff bushings are no longer available, I fortunately acquired a set.

In regards to the links, I dont even care if they're sold WITHOUT the bushings. I have extra bushings. Or, buy a small batch at volume and work with one of the many reputable NISSAN dealers and get them at bulk discount. Sure, maybe the cost will be more than your helm joints.. but in the end, it will be a product geared towards folks who still want that bit of compliance & elasticity in their street car. People pay more money for luxury, INFINITI costing more than NISSAN, Lexus more than Toyota. This is the cost that we have to pay.

Even if its a small production, please keep my request in mind.. you have a sale here.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by HayaiSaru

Upgrade to Aurora ends or FK ends

QA1's strongest 1/2" bore 3/4" shank rod end has an ult. radial static load capicity of 11385 lbs. Auora's strongest in the same dimensions is 40000 lbs.

What would you feel safer with?

I think if you are putting more than 11,000lbs of load through the rod end, you will have other concerns than the rod end breaking. But just to clarify, the rod ends we use on our tension rods are 3/4" bore, which the QA1 end has a rating of 28,000lbs.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I think if you are putting more than 11,000lbs of load through the rod end, you will have other concerns than the rod end breaking. But just to clarify, the rod ends we use on our tension rods are 3/4" bore, which the QA1 end has a rating of 28,000lbs.

This is from a post by Jason M regarding the strength of aluminum hex like that battle version uses.

"The fatigue limit for 6061t6 aluminum is rated @ 14,000 psi for 500,000,000 cycles of complete and equal load reversal, according to wikipedia, and the Machinery's Handbook.

7/8 6061t6 hex, with 5/8" threads, with an area of .3562, will fatigue at or above cyclic loading of 14,000psi x .3562 = 4986.8 lbs of force"

So if the entire arm (aluminum hex) is going to go to fail at 5000 lbs of force, why the heck do we need rod ends that can withstand a radial static load of even 10000 pounds?

Unless an engineer can explain to me that I'm not comparing apples to apples (fatigue-limit to radial-static-load) I think the debate on rod end strength has gotten a little out of control.

And on a side note I've used the seals-it rubber protection boots for almost two years on my mazdaspeed sway bar heim links. They came with cheapo non PTFE lined end links that I figured I'd be swapping out within 6 months. After fighting the boots on, I packed them with high temp brake grease. Even after two years the crappy rod ends have NO increased slop. These are the one piece big boots, not the two piece covers. I'm a seals-it believer now.

[duffman1278]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

it this case, budget does not apply. if you want to "keep on budget" do what this idiot does, and what numerous of us old-schoolers have been doing for decades now: take your OE arms and slot them. i didnt feel like spending money on adjustable arms because i personally dont think they're important or necessary. as long as your bushings are good and you can get the proper alignment settings you need, that's all that matters. too many people lower their car to get some crazy unrealistic non-performing geometry. generally speaking, most if not all street cars just need a bit of camber adjustment in the rear and the front.. camber plates.

imo, you're better off stock than wasting time with circuit sports or megan.

Pretty spot on, plus a lot of the companies designing these control arms or manufacturing them are properly designing them in the first place.

Techincally speaking, heim joints shouldn't even be used for suspension arms they're designed for axial loads, not bending. Heim's are just the easy way of designing control arms that give quick and easy adjustment.

[roel03]

Originally Posted by nisco

Sorry if this is a bit off the topic.Since there are people in this thread that actually know how these parts function and maintenance them properly, I want to know if anybody has tried the Fortune Auto arms that came out recently. Are they well built or any better than SPLs? Im trying to decide which to go with.
Thanks!

Compare them to ISIS arms or the arms on ebay. Look at the picture of the tension rod, then look at the ISIS tension rod. Ignore the fancy colors and compare them from the shape, grooves, curves, jam nuts, and rod ends and you will see they are the same thing with fancy paint.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

7/8 6061t6 hex, with 5/8" threads, with an area of .3562, will fatigue at or above cyclic loading of 14,000psi x .3562 = 4986.8 lbs of force"

So if the entire arm (aluminum hex) is going to go to fail at 5000 lbs of force, why the heck do we need rod ends that can withstand a radial static load of even 10000 pounds?

I don't know first hand Battle Version's tension rods specs, but I would say 5000lbs provides a pretty low safety factor for this application (where you should see loads on the order of 2000lbs). Our v3 tension rods have 1" threads on the aluminum component.

Typically the sizes of the rod ends used in most suspension arms are technically sufficient, if based just on static radial load ratings. However providing alot of headroom on the load rating predicts that the bearing is less "stressed" and will be able to provide longer service life, all other factors equal.