rb20det and rb25det - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Zemus · 01-01-2002, 04:30 PM

I have been hearing about both these engines, and i want to put one of them in my 240, but im not sure which one.  IYO what is the best engine depending on avalibility, difficulty to put in, power, and upgrades, and how hard is it to find parts for them, and weight diffrence

KoukiS14 · 01-01-2002, 07:31 PM

Both going to be just as hard to find parts for, albeit the 2.0 seems to be in more abundance... But here in the states, both are gonna be sort of tough... no parts are shared with any US car...

But I gotta say....  That RB20DET was awesome!! That was 3 days ago and I still have a boner from that experience... =)

-Rob

niseslut · 01-01-2002, 11:04 PM

oni, i always hear you talking about this and that about your car, i mean come on, do you actually have all the money to do all you say you will?  i don't remember you posting saying that you acutally had a 240.  how do you plan to pay for everything?  i mean if you're rich from all the money you plan to spend on your 240 why don't you just buy a wrx or something?

ok, and don't attack me cause I don't have a 240 and i ask about things. i don't know but oni just bugs the #### out of me.  i don't know how to explain it

*DSC* · 01-01-2002, 11:28 PM

Thats the type of comment that you really should keep to your self. Sure there are ppl around that rub me the wrong way for this reason or that but it really doesn't help anybody to tell them. (and to kill any ideas now, neither oni or niseslut are one of them <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>) there's nothing wrong with doing research about stuff you won't get for another 2 years or whatever, I do it and I'm sure there are a lot of people here that do it.  

Kid Zelda · 01-02-2002, 12:49 AM

The world will always be jealous...................... hump-on

*nismo270r* · 01-02-2002, 03:01 AM

For the money the RB20 is a better buy I would think...because with the extra cash you spend on the 25, you could mod up the 20...Kinda like the whole S13 or S14 SR ordeal....

BlankFlip · 01-02-2002, 05:14 AM

well, the rb25det is newer so that can be good or bad. oh yeah niseslut, i'm sorry but u ask the same type if not worse since u bring up like v8's n expensive rims n turbo n everything, no offense, but ur comment was REALLY uncalled for. oni's just doin' his research, it's what this site is for.

Zemus · 01-02-2002, 11:22 AM

Yea, im still looking into stuff.  I make a desent amount of money, so EVENTUALY i will be able to do what i want with the 240 i want to get. Im only 17, and i just havent found the right 240, the ones ive looked at are eather to much for me to spend right now, or they have some sort of damage or engine problems that wasent stated in the add.

My dad wont let me buy off ebay or from any other state.  So i have to find just the right car, just the right 240 in Minnesota, for just the right price, which is very difficult.  I plan to do many mods, and I never once said it was going to be in the near future, like 2-3 years down the line, once im done with school, and such.  

I make about 1400 a month, and im only 17 so i dont have many bills to pay. (other than car insurace for my current car) I have the money saved for the car, i just cant find one in MN.  I am mainly looking for a 91-94 Fastback, 5spd, Preferably in Black.

All they have in mn right now is coupes, automatics.  I just have to wait for the right car, and make sure my dad aproves of it, my dad is a mechanic and he knows if im getting a good deal or if im getting ripped off. I am also planning that he will help me with the engine swap (depending on what i get) he has done a few swaps before and he says its easy.  

I just mainly want to know what i want, and what is the best, so i can start saving for it.  Like they said im mainly looking into this stuff.  Thats why i asked about prices and stuff like that.  I never said i am apsolutly going to get any of this stuff, I just really want alot of it, and if i save for it, i can do it, but i just want to know before i buy it.  But like i said before, finding the right car is the hardest part....

*sykikchimp* · 01-02-2002, 11:40 AM

just a note (I know you probably know..but for those who don't..)  94 had no Fastbacks.  only convertibles <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Zemus · 01-02-2002, 02:13 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sykikchimp on 11:40 am on Jan. 2, 2002
just a note (I know you probably know..but for those who don't..) 94 had no Fastbacks. only convertibles <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

heh kewl, i dident know that, i learn somthing new every day :-D

DjBaMBaM · 01-14-2002, 05:05 AM

I don't know why, but oni...you piss me off

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> J/K <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

DjBaMBaM · 01-14-2002, 05:08 AM

But really, Oni I checked out that car in your sig and it is wicked! They even explicitly stated that they won't give out any info on how that car was built. O well, guess we gotta do our own thing and hope that we dyno close to 600 rwhp <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. Kind of an amazing feat if you ask me. I also couldn't help but notice that there's an sr22det in there. I never knew that there was such an engine! Info please! TIA.

dave2u · 01-14-2002, 05:40 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 11:28 pm on Jan. 1, 2002
Thats the type of comment that you really should keep to your self. Sure there are ppl around that rub me the wrong way for this reason or that but it really doesn't help anybody to tell them. (and to kill any ideas now, neither oni or niseslut are one of them <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>) there's nothing wrong with doing research about stuff you won't get for another 2 years or whatever, I do it and I'm sure there are a lot of people here that do it.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I knew it was me
why do you hate me DSC
why?
WHY
WWHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ?

(Edited by dave2u at 6:47 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

mistert · 01-14-2002, 06:32 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>8 am on Jan. 14, 2002
But really, Oni I checked out that car in your sig and it is wicked! They even explicitly stated that they won't give out any info on how that car was built. O well, guess we gotta do our own thing and hope that we dyno close to 600 rwhp <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. Kind of an amazing feat if you ask me. I also couldn't help but notice that there's an sr22det in there. I never knew that there was such an engine! Info please! TIA.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

it says right there that its not his car. sr22 is a stroker motor, theres also an sr21. its just another name for an sr20 stroked to 2.2 litres or 2.1 litres (Well, its not just a crank, its a crank and pistons). and 600 isnt really that massive of a feat, its doable with all drop in parts (well, you'll need some boring and headwork is a probably a must with one of the stroker kits, but i mean you can just go out and buy all the parts). 400 safe output without grenading the crank in most sr's, but the s15 sr is supposed to be able to handle alot more. anyways, if you installed a 2.2 litre kit, it'd come with a new crank which should be able to handle the 600.

DjBaMBaM · 01-14-2002, 06:52 AM

Ok so these stroker kits sound pretty amazing? Is there anythign else to worry about with them or is it pretty safe in terms of longevity and relaibility of the motor? Plus how much do these stroker kits go for and where can they be purchased? TIA.

EDIT: BTW, I never said that it was Oni's car...

EDIT2: Why do you sau that 600 rwho isn't all that impressive? Sounds pretty impressive to me for an sr20det.

(Edited by DjBaMBaM at 5:54 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

(Edited by DjBaMBaM at 5:55 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

mistert · 01-14-2002, 08:16 AM

a stroker kit will be fine for the engine, since it comes with reinforced rods and pistons and crank, you might even see elongated engine life, and entry price will be around $5500

01-14-2002, 06:04 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5 am on Jan. 14, 2002
I don't know why, but oni...you piss me off

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> J/K <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

that's my basic thought.  you all make good points on how i'm kind of like him or whatever but oni just makes me grind my teeth.  

(Edited by Niseslut at 7:11 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)

01-01-2002, 04:30 PM	#1
Zemus Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minneapols Age: 40 Posts: 2,268 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Zemus Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have been hearing about both these engines, and i want to put one of them in my 240, but im not sure which one.  IYO what is the best engine depending on avalibility, difficulty to put in, power, and upgrades, and how hard is it to find parts for them, and weight diffrence

01-01-2002, 07:31 PM	#2
KoukiS14 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Indiana Age: 47 Posts: 944 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Both going to be just as hard to find parts for, albeit the 2.0 seems to be in more abundance... But here in the states, both are gonna be sort of tough... no parts are shared with any US car... But I gotta say....  That RB20DET was awesome!! That was 3 days ago and I still have a boner from that experience... =) -Rob

01-01-2002, 11:04 PM	#3
niseslut Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 64 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	oni, i always hear you talking about this and that about your car, i mean come on, do you actually have all the money to do all you say you will?  i don't remember you posting saying that you acutally had a 240.  how do you plan to pay for everything?  i mean if you're rich from all the money you plan to spend on your 240 why don't you just buy a wrx or something? ok, and don't attack me cause I don't have a 240 and i ask about things. i don't know but oni just bugs the #### out of me.  i don't know how to explain it

01-01-2002, 11:28 PM	#4
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thats the type of comment that you really should keep to your self. Sure there are ppl around that rub me the wrong way for this reason or that but it really doesn't help anybody to tell them. (and to kill any ideas now, neither oni or niseslut are one of them <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>) there's nothing wrong with doing research about stuff you won't get for another 2 years or whatever, I do it and I'm sure there are a lot of people here that do it.

01-02-2002, 12:49 AM	#5
Kid Zelda BANNED Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,347 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The world will always be jealous...................... hump-on

01-02-2002, 03:01 AM	#6
nismo270r Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lafayette, IN Age: 45 Posts: 715 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	For the money the RB20 is a better buy I would think...because with the extra cash you spend on the 25, you could mod up the 20...Kinda like the whole S13 or S14 SR ordeal....

01-02-2002, 05:14 AM	#7
BlankFlip Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Future Posts: 1,627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well, the rb25det is newer so that can be good or bad. oh yeah niseslut, i'm sorry but u ask the same type if not worse since u bring up like v8's n expensive rims n turbo n everything, no offense, but ur comment was REALLY uncalled for. oni's just doin' his research, it's what this site is for.

01-02-2002, 11:22 AM	#8
Zemus Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minneapols Age: 40 Posts: 2,268 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Zemus Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yea, im still looking into stuff.  I make a desent amount of money, so EVENTUALY i will be able to do what i want with the 240 i want to get. Im only 17, and i just havent found the right 240, the ones ive looked at are eather to much for me to spend right now, or they have some sort of damage or engine problems that wasent stated in the add. My dad wont let me buy off ebay or from any other state.  So i have to find just the right car, just the right 240 in Minnesota, for just the right price, which is very difficult.  I plan to do many mods, and I never once said it was going to be in the near future, like 2-3 years down the line, once im done with school, and such.   I make about 1400 a month, and im only 17 so i dont have many bills to pay. (other than car insurace for my current car) I have the money saved for the car, i just cant find one in MN.  I am mainly looking for a 91-94 Fastback, 5spd, Preferably in Black. All they have in mn right now is coupes, automatics.  I just have to wait for the right car, and make sure my dad aproves of it, my dad is a mechanic and he knows if im getting a good deal or if im getting ripped off. I am also planning that he will help me with the engine swap (depending on what i get) he has done a few swaps before and he says its easy.   I just mainly want to know what i want, and what is the best, so i can start saving for it.  Like they said im mainly looking into this stuff.  Thats why i asked about prices and stuff like that.  I never said i am apsolutly going to get any of this stuff, I just really want alot of it, and if i save for it, i can do it, but i just want to know before i buy it.  But like i said before, finding the right car is the hardest part....

01-02-2002, 11:40 AM	#9
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 44 Posts: 6,525 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	just a note (I know you probably know..but for those who don't..)  94 had no Fastbacks.  only convertibles <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

01-02-2002, 02:13 PM	#10
Zemus Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minneapols Age: 40 Posts: 2,268 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Zemus Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sykikchimp on 11:40 am on Jan. 2, 2002 just a note (I know you probably know..but for those who don't..) 94 had no Fastbacks. only convertibles <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> heh kewl, i dident know that, i learn somthing new every day :-D

01-14-2002, 05:05 AM	#11
DjBaMBaM Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I don't know why, but oni...you piss me off <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> J/K <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

01-14-2002, 05:08 AM	#12
DjBaMBaM Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	But really, Oni I checked out that car in your sig and it is wicked! They even explicitly stated that they won't give out any info on how that car was built. O well, guess we gotta do our own thing and hope that we dyno close to 600 rwhp <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. Kind of an amazing feat if you ask me. I also couldn't help but notice that there's an sr22det in there. I never knew that there was such an engine! Info please! TIA.

01-14-2002, 05:40 AM	#13
dave2u Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: uk Age: 54 Posts: 499 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 11:28 pm on Jan. 1, 2002 Thats the type of comment that you really should keep to your self. Sure there are ppl around that rub me the wrong way for this reason or that but it really doesn't help anybody to tell them. (and to kill any ideas now, neither oni or niseslut are one of them <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>) there's nothing wrong with doing research about stuff you won't get for another 2 years or whatever, I do it and I'm sure there are a lot of people here that do it. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I knew it was me why do you hate me DSC why? WHY WWHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ? (Edited by dave2u at 6:47 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

01-14-2002, 06:32 AM	#14
mistert Pearl White Mike Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: memphis TN Posts: 908 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>8 am on Jan. 14, 2002 But really, Oni I checked out that car in your sig and it is wicked! They even explicitly stated that they won't give out any info on how that car was built. O well, guess we gotta do our own thing and hope that we dyno close to 600 rwhp <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. Kind of an amazing feat if you ask me. I also couldn't help but notice that there's an sr22det in there. I never knew that there was such an engine! Info please! TIA. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> it says right there that its not his car. sr22 is a stroker motor, theres also an sr21. its just another name for an sr20 stroked to 2.2 litres or 2.1 litres (Well, its not just a crank, its a crank and pistons). and 600 isnt really that massive of a feat, its doable with all drop in parts (well, you'll need some boring and headwork is a probably a must with one of the stroker kits, but i mean you can just go out and buy all the parts). 400 safe output without grenading the crank in most sr's, but the s15 sr is supposed to be able to handle alot more. anyways, if you installed a 2.2 litre kit, it'd come with a new crank which should be able to handle the 600.

01-14-2002, 06:52 AM	#15
DjBaMBaM Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ok so these stroker kits sound pretty amazing? Is there anythign else to worry about with them or is it pretty safe in terms of longevity and relaibility of the motor? Plus how much do these stroker kits go for and where can they be purchased? TIA. EDIT: BTW, I never said that it was Oni's car... EDIT2: Why do you sau that 600 rwho isn't all that impressive? Sounds pretty impressive to me for an sr20det. (Edited by DjBaMBaM at 5:54 am on Jan. 14, 2002) (Edited by DjBaMBaM at 5:55 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

01-14-2002, 08:16 AM	#16
mistert Pearl White Mike Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: memphis TN Posts: 908 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	a stroker kit will be fine for the engine, since it comes with reinforced rods and pistons and crank, you might even see elongated engine life, and entry price will be around $5500

01-14-2002, 06:04 PM	#17
Guest Posts: n/a	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DjBaMBaM on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5 am on Jan. 14, 2002 I don't know why, but oni...you piss me off <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> J/K <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> that's my basic thought.  you all make good points on how i'm kind of like him or whatever but oni just makes me grind my teeth.   (Edited by Niseslut at 7:11 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)