Future of Private Health Insurrance

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by tiggertsi

where do you get that either of those have any thing to do with insurance premiums going up because on non health care insured people getting medical treatment? can you show me the mechanism that would do just what you describe? i would love to see this described, but i think it's a huge leap to say what you describe IS the reason why insurance premiums and the cost of healthcare in general have steadily risen without looking at the profit factor, the inefficiency factor, the jobs program factor, the fleecing of money factor and a whole myriad of other factors.

This is very simple.

Example: Uninsured (or under-insured) person gets hit by car. Person (or insurance company) gets hit with a bill for all medical services provided. Person (or insurance company) does not or will not cover the cost.

Now here is where things change - Hospital insurance company may sue person insurance company. Lawsuits are expensive and generally they will not recover the "full" amount of services rendered. Unless it is an egregious bill - they are going to try and settle which means they are not getting the full amount they are seeking (then write whatever the difference is as a "loss").


Scenario two - Hospital insurance company sues person with little to no money - (if they can find the person) person declares bankruptcy and all his debt is alleviated. Therefore hospital insurance is still stuck with an unpaid bill. They can write off the loss only to a certain extent... so that leaves them with x amount of dollars unpaid for services rendered.

So, when the insurance companies (on both sides) have unpaid or underpaid bills (or they lose their claim for whatever reason), they raise premiums on those who do pay premiums and have insurance to cover their losses.

Do some research on premium hikes for the 10 years before the ACA, then compare those to the (hopefully) smaller hikes we will now see.

[tiggertsi]

Originally Posted by ineedone

This is very simple.

Example: Uninsured (or under-insured) person gets hit by car. Person (or insurance company) gets hit with a bill for all medical services provided. Person (or insurance company) does not or will not cover the cost.

Now here is where things change - Hospital insurance company may sue person insurance company. Lawsuits are expensive and generally they will not recover the "full" amount of services rendered. Unless it is an egregious bill - they are going to try and settle which means they are not getting the full amount they are seeking (then write whatever the difference is as a "loss").


Scenario two - Hospital insurance company sues person with little to no money - (if they can find the person) person declares bankruptcy and all his debt is alleviated. Therefore hospital insurance is still stuck with an unpaid bill. They can write off the loss only to a certain extent... so that leaves them with x amount of dollars unpaid for services rendered.

So, when the insurance companies (on both sides) have unpaid or underpaid bills (or they lose their claim for whatever reason), they raise premiums on those who do pay premiums and have insurance to cover their losses.

Do some research on premium hikes for the 10 years before the ACA, then compare those to the (hopefully) smaller hikes we will now see.

and this causes health insurance premiums to go up more, comparatively speaking, than the other factors i listed? i know that loss on services rendered are a driving factor of cost, but i also contend they are not the greatest driving factor of cost, nowhere near, especially healthcare premium costs. and as far as your hope goes i know, personally, several people who have already seen their premiums rise significantly because of obamacare. personally i'll be paying the tax until the point it costs more to pay the tax then it does to buy into obamacare.

Originally Posted by ineedone

An average ER visit costs more than an average month's rent

or its just the idea of making health a for profit entity.

and after reading this article, i think it perfectly illustrates what i am saying when i say the healthcare industry and healthcare insurance industry is corrupt as all hell when it comes to making profit be the number one driving factor for corporate healthcare interests. one of the best examples and yes also most extreme i know of is this ............. after this the company called bayer should never exist as a corporate named company in the history of humanity.

honestly i do not see how obamacare is going to do any good. how can a government that is already running things into the ground going to make this work any better than the crappy job it has already done with the programs it has gotten involved in in the last 100 years?

i haven't had healthcare insurance for more than 3 years. i have been to the er once and to my regular doctor more than 10 times, i have paid with cash and a few times i have had to set up payment plans when the cost was more than i could afford at that specific time. but you know what? i also do not have any other form of debt, nothing. no car payments, no house payment, no frivolous bills that i can live without so guess what? it makes it alot easier to do exactly what i have done. also i know my regular doctor prefers cash payments from his patients and even offers discounts to those patients as dealing with insurance companies is a hassle for him, time wise and cost wise as well. you know why? cause the insurance companies are always trying to fuck him and the other doctors in his practice for profit. there are many across the nation that experience the same thing.

and btw check this out, very telling.......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3825477.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-...e-world-2012-6

http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegrou...drug_companies

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...h-care-system/

and you can keep digging and digging.

a government that can't reel in it's own skyrocketing debt by making the sacrifices it needs to make (like raising the debt ceiling isn't a sacrifice that needs to be made, it is the exact opposite) isn't going to magically have the ability to manage a government controlled and subsidized healthcare system any better or tackle the corruption that is rampant in the healthcare and healthcare insurance industries.

[The Dude]

Corruption is a major problem for most every aspect of our government. Until politicians can no longer accept money from special interest groups we have no chance of mitigating it. That's part of the reason why I support the single-payer system...it takes out the goddamn insurance companies. Hence why the insurance companies, and thus the politicians, are against it. It would not be as expensive to most middle-class citizens as Obamacare and everyone would have access to healthcare. But fuck it I guess...socialism.

[tiggertsi]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Corruption is a major problem for most every aspect of our government. Until politicians can no longer accept money from special interest groups we have no chance of mitigating it. That's part of the reason why I support the single-payer system...it takes out the goddamn insurance companies. Hence why the insurance companies, and thus the politicians, are against it. It would not be as expensive to most middle-class citizens as Obamacare and everyone would have access to healthcare. But fuck it I guess...socialism.

dude i so agree with you. but this "Until politicians can no longer accept money from special interest groups" is not going to happen unless american citizens start demanding that politicians stop doing it and voting them out of office if they continue. and if that doesn't work then american citizens need to do exactly what the declaration for independence says in the second paragraph. obviously it's going to have to be more concentrated and effective efforts than say the "occupy" movement.

oh yeah and i also think american citizens need to start targeting special interest groups that give money to politicians. it's funny when a politician raises more money to get elected than the salary the elected position pays.