Crankcase ventilation directly to atmosphere?

[CarRamrod]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

You just called a catch can an air filter. I am pretty sure that you have no data to back this claim up, and that you pulled it out of thin air. Why don't you google "cut open catch can". A mesh of metal stuffed into a can is not an air filter.

furthermore PCV, again, has no catch can in it. that is something you are adding to it. PCV has nothing to do with catch cans. You are all over the place with the terminology, and you lack fundamental knowledge of chemistry.

It is essentially an air filter since we are using it to filter air. I've sated numerous times what is inside a proper catch can so idk why you're trying to tell me. Lol

Just because you add a catch can to a PCV system doesn't turn it into something other than a PCV system. It's still a PCV system but it now has a filter integrated into the system.

I'm sorry you ran into someone who knows what they are talking about. Haha. It's just not your day today. I've explained how it works, why it works and why you should use one.

At this point you're trying to dissect my posts and twist words around. Not gonna work man. Catch cans are used and have been used on high performance cars for decades. Why? Because they work. Nothing you can say or do to refute that.

This discussion is over. People, you have the facts. You decide if a catch can is right for your setup.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by CarRamrod

It is essentially an air filter since we are using it to filter air. I've sated numerous times what is inside a proper catch can so idk why you're trying to tell me. Lol

So those ebay air filters, that people use to filter air... those are good air filters? Because people use them to filter air?

People sometimes use a sock to filter air. So that is an air filter? Just because I use it?

You consistently make the erroneous claims of someone without any scientific background. What you did there, is called non-scientific coorelation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

Just because you add a catch can to a PCV system doesn't turn it into something other than a PCV system. It's still a PCV system but it now has a filter integrated into the system.

1. adding length to the PCV system makes it less effective. If you add 10000 feet of hose between the intake and the valvecover, do you think you will get a strong vacuum signal at the other end? Adding unnecessary length to the PCV system is working AGAINST it's design. You are HURTING the PCV system by integrating ANYTHING, be it .1" or 99999" of hose.
2. You, and everyone else, has ZERO data about "air filter" capabilities of any/all catch cans available. Most do not contain ANYTHING. The ones that do contain a large wirey mesh, incapable of filtering air particulate.

3. The materials that compose common metal-mesh inserts of catch cans provide a reaction surface (catalyst) for potentially hazardous side reactions for the truly (un-named as of yet) harmful partially de-hydrogenated/oxidized carbon compounds (the ones I was hoping you would mention but failed to) Making the catch can a potentially harmful addition to the PCV system, besides the obvious draw back of the additional length (#1).

I'm sorry you ran into someone who knows what they are talking about. Haha. It's just not your day today. I've explained how it works, why it works and why you should use one.

Yeah you really know what you are talking about. Still waiting for pictures of your catch can between the valvecover and intake manifold.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Most do not contain ANYTHING. The ones that do contain a large wirey mesh, incapable of filtering air particulate.

What is the purpose of that "wirey mesh" stuff? It provides surface area for the oily air vapor to collect on. In other words this would be "filtering" said air. Now if it doesn't have a "wirey mesh" inside it, then it is nothing more than a vacuum chamber, which draws oily air through it, collecting some, but not nearly as effective as one with "wirey mesh".

Kingalton, I think you read too far into things and miss the point sometimes. You don't know everything and at times you come off as an arrogant fool and others you have valid points that aren't in outer space. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

A catch can is nothing more than a means to remove the oil vapor from inside the engine. As someone stated, there are contaminants in said vapor that some prefer not to have redirected back to the sump. Oil changes are needed because there is "crap" in it, among other reasons, as you know.

A valve cover, such as the S14 with internal baffling collects these contaminants and over time they get gummed up with the "crap" that was filtered out. Next time you pull your VC off, remove the baffling and tell us what you find.

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Kingalton, I think you read too far into things and miss the point sometimes. You don't know everything and at times you come off as an arrogant fool and others you have valid points that aren't in outer space. There's more than one way to skin a cat..

Quite typical of those who come over from SR20forum and the dash, hence the nickname "the dashbags"

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

What is the purpose of that "wirey mesh" stuff? It provides surface area for the oily air vapor to collect on. In other words this would be "filtering" said air. Now if it doesn't have a "wirey mesh" inside it, then it is nothing more than a vacuum chamber, which draws oily air through it, collecting some, but not nearly as effective as one with "wirey mesh".

Kingalton, I think you read too far into things and miss the point sometimes. You don't know everything and at times you come off as an arrogant fool and others you have valid points that aren't in outer space. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

A catch can is nothing more than a means to remove the oil vapor from inside the engine. As someone stated, there are contaminants in said vapor that some prefer not to have redirected back to the sump. Oil changes are needed because there is "crap" in it, among other reasons, as you know.

A valve cover, such as the S14 with internal baffling collects these contaminants and over time they get gummed up with the "crap" that was filtered out. Next time you pull your VC off, remove the baffling and tell us what you find.

how is a catch can going to protect the baffling?

And oil vapour, is a gas. It will not become a liquid just because you put a metal mesh inside a can. It may settle out as a deposit of carbon; the black "crap" that keeps getting referred to- as you have noted, settles out inside the valvecover, all over the insides of the engine, and anywhere it can. But keep in mind, this same oily vapour exits the valvecover via PCV valve and enters the intake manifold directly without any kind of filter or can. So adding a catch can will not solve the issue of oily vapour settling out, or inside, the engine. It will only serve to protect whatever is downstream of the can i.e. the turbocharger compressor. Which is a Point I have already made several times.

Also, how many experiments have you done to determine the effectiveness of such a metal mesh?
If you are claiming they provide a surface area, then I agree, there is a larger surface area present in a can with any kind of debris, whether cardboard or steel or sand. A potential problem with metals, is they also provides a surface for catalysis reactions. Have you taken any inorganic chemistry courses? Nickel, which is present in stainless, is a highly modifiable metal, with d-orbitals capable of bonding many chemical groups.

here are some interesting configurations for various metals (NOT catalysis reactions):

















Instead of guessing, which is what you are doing without experimental evidence, I would prefer to keep things OEM or as OEM as possible. The factory did not see a need to collect anything coming out of the valvecover; there is no reason why anybody else should, unless it becomes necessary or desirable. Such as in the event of wanting to protect your $2000 turbocharger from oil. Which is a point that I have made several times, a valid purpose for a catch can. Certainly not missed; I even posted a picture of it in action.

[zombiewolf513]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

how is a catch can going to protect the baffling?

And oil vapour, is a gas. It will not become a liquid just because you put a metal mesh inside a can. It may settle out as a deposit of carbon; the black "crap" that keeps getting referred to- as you have noted, settles out inside the valvecover, all over the insides of the engine, and anywhere it can. But keep in mind, this same oily vapour exits the valvecover via PCV valve and enters the intake manifold directly without any kind of filter or can. So adding a catch can will not solve the issue of oily vapour settling out, or inside, the engine. It will only serve to protect whatever is downstream of the can i.e. the turbocharger compressor. Which is a Point I have already made several times.

Also, how many experiments have you done to determine the effectiveness of such a metal mesh?
If you are claiming they provide a surface area, then I agree, there is a larger surface area present in a can with any kind of debris, whether cardboard or steel or sand. A potential problem with metals, is they also provides a surface for catalysis reactions. Have you taken any inorganic chemistry courses? Nickel, which is present in stainless, is a highly modifiable metal, with d-orbitals capable of bonding many chemical groups.

here are some interesting configurations for various metals (NOT catalysis reactions):

















Instead of guessing, which is what you are doing without experimental evidence, I would prefer to keep things OEM or as OEM as possible. The factory did not see a need to collect anything coming out of the valvecover; there is no reason why anybody else should, unless it becomes necessary or desirable. Such as in the event of wanting to protect your $2000 turbocharger from oil. Which is a point that I have made several times, a valid purpose for a catch can. Certainly not missed; I even posted a picture of it in action.

"...there is no reason why anybody else should, unless it becomes necessary or desirable."

You are fucking stupid, and nobody cares if you did your chemistry homework.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by zombiewolf513

"...there is no reason why anybody else should, unless it becomes necessary or desirable."

You are fucking stupid, and nobody cares if you did your chemistry homework.

Very Informative post. So tell me, what other reasons are there for adding a catch can to an engine (or anything else for that matter) other than

A. Desirable
B. Necessary

Because I am pretty sure that sums up every reason for making any modification. ever.

Sad that name calling is what this thread has degenerated to.

Also, if you had a broken leg, and came to the hospital, would you want
A: the doctor who did his chemistry homework
or
B: the doctor who didnt do his chemistry homework

You might start the care at that point who does homework.

[zombiewolf513]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Very Informative post. So tell me, what other reasons are there for adding a catch can to an engine (or anything else for that matter) other than

A. Desirable
B. Necessary

Because I am pretty sure that sums up every reason for making any modification. ever.

Oil vaporized in the pressurized crank case air accumulates in a catch can because a filter element gives surface area for oil vapor to coalesce back into oil on. It is an improvement to the crank case ventilation system because it eliminates troublesome particulate from entering the turbo/intake system/charge piping when between the sr20 valve cover and intake and out of the intake manifold when between the pcv and intake manifold.

If Im at a hospital and there's two doctors, one of whom didn't do their chemistry homework, it doesnt matter who I choose because theyre both doctors, at a hospital, who can likely diagnose and treat a broken leg. (The military affords one the experience of being treated by someone that practically doesn't even know how to spell chemistry, on a regular basis)

The sr20 did at one point come from the factory with a catch can on the exhaust side that you so furiously defend as being pointless...



Its the black thing behind the exhaust manifold.