STL Riots

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by WheelWhore

Any sources for this? I never heard mention of this before.

Are you for real?

I'll post it up latter. Someone even got fired at MSNBC after the fact (iirc).

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

[WheelWhore]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Are you for real?

I'll post it up latter. Someone even got fired at MSNBC after the fact (iirc).

Yes. I never heard of the edited situation.

I dont watch MSNBC.

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level. But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by silviasandbeer

mike brown was shot and killed and witnesses all say the same thing
he had his hands up saying "dont shoot"

huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...isit.html?_r=0

Of course the guy who said he had his hands up and said don't shoot is also the guy who gave an account that he met up with Brown when he saw him on the street. His narrative of course didn't take into account he was filmed in the same store during the strong arm robbery.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely wrecked. But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

[silviasandbeer]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...isit.html?_r=0

Of course the guy who said he had his hands up and said don't shoot is also the guy who gave an account that he met up with Brown when he saw him on the street. His narrative of course didn't take into account he was filmed in the same store during the strong arm robbery.

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

[theronin]

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

[silviasandbeer]

Originally Posted by theronin

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

thats logical

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by theronin

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

ROFL

Could you imagine how disturbing the job would be to watch the cameras? LOL

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by silviasandbeer

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

You have way too much faith in the ignorant.

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

I strongly concur. It started with the baby boomers and has progressively gotten worse and worse with every generation. We have become perfectly fine with being sub-par, this issue is what haunts us.

When I see these cases like Brown, Martin, etc. It discourages me. Instead of the media building up racial tensions, why don't we focus on parenting our youth to make wise choices and take the high road. Teach the respect and how to avoid problematic situations rather than MAKE problematic situations.

I don't know where the circle ends and begins anymore, personally I think our nation is beyond the point of no return. We are no longer the power we once were. We continue to plummet in education statistics, grow debt, and fill jails. We are so concerned with what's happening with the Kardashians that we can't even show up to vote for the leader of our country (or well, statistically speaking anyway).

This kind of stuff is an embarrassment.

[OutlawLui]

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by WheelWhore

Yes. I never heard of the edited situation.

I dont watch MSNBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...inst-nbc-news/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...for-nbc-msnbc/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2253095.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rge-zimmerman/

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/nbc...s-on-911-tape/

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by evilpanamajack

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

go away.



msg

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

ROFL

Could you imagine how disturbing the job would be to watch the cameras? LOL

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by silviasandbeer

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

I love that presumption that the officer acted in appropriately.

What about forever changing how witnesses lie about what they saw? Considering the nonsense going on, I have little faith in the witnesses.

Maybe the change we need is parents start being parents and raising better kids.

[dsastr_clan]

Originally Posted by evilpanamajack

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

what do you mean?? this isn't what media wants you to see! those up there are facts, lethal force is used only under life threatening circumstances. There are other alternatives, what about their so awesome training that they seem to rub on our face when they fuck up, why didnt he wait or call for back up? or use a different subduing method? it was his fault for going solo into a risky situation. Don't become part of the desensitization of events, we need to stand up and before this happens to your or my kids.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by HORShi

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

Awesome Source Material.

Originally Posted by HORShi

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system.

Yes, because we are totally comparable. You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.

Originally Posted by HORShi

A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

Rhetoric.

First, variation in law is great. It's part of states rights. Don't like it, vote or move. This country is far to big, far to diverse to have one central government making all the laws. That's tyranny of the majority. Why should I in podunk Midwest, who is outnumbered by California, be forced to accept what laws they want?

As far as nonviolent vs violent - please post up some statistics to back up your claim.

Our criminal system is not about rehabilitation. End of Story.

Our Society is not about rehabilitation. Ever apply for a job? Ever been asked if you are a convicted felon? Can't get a job - just go back to stealing.

What "to much" power are police given?

Originally Posted by HORShi

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas

The two parties are closer align then you realize. You are just getting lost in rhetoric.

Originally Posted by HORShi

and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level.

Good for you.

Originally Posted by HORShi

But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

Maybe we should start with the people. How many drug gangs does Japan have? Active serial killers? How many men beat and murder their wives? Kidnap and rape girls? How many guys set off bombs in front of buildings? How many Japanese police officers are killed each year?

How many illegal aliens are in Japan? How many guns? How many minorities? How many people live below the poverty line?

Originally Posted by HORShi

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Or else what? You still haven't stated how the system is broken. Just rhetoric. Yes, the US is not other countries. We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't trade one aspect for another.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dsastr_clan

what do you mean?? this isn't what media wants you to see! those up there are facts, lethal force is used only under life threatening circumstances. There are other alternatives, what about their so awesome training that they seem to rub on our face when they fuck up, why didnt he wait or call for back up? or use a different subduing method? it was his fault for going solo into a risky situation. Don't become part of the desensitization of events, we need to stand up and before this happens to your or my kids.

Monday Night Quarterback.

So what happens if the man gets away and kills someone.

"why didn't the police stop him... why didn't they chase him... why did he not just shoot him instead of taser..."


As for "other means of subduing. Reality is not the movies. We have no idea if the cop had a ranged-taser on him... and even if he did, he'd still have to draw it... and not miss.

They are a one shot deal and not always as effective as people think. Should the cop had "knight stick" the guy like Rodney King?

If you ask the cop he was in "life threading circumstances". According to him, the man tried to take his pistol, a round went off and then Brown beat the cop in the fact. News is reporting the officer has a busted eye socket.

So what, you expect the cop to just let the guy run off? Wants to go round two and fist fight it out?

[TMW]

Well, this thread got a bit off topic. So, I just got done watching the CBS evening news and a young man from Ferguson said something along the lines of this "It's not a racial issue. It's an issue of the people vs. the police."

I thought that described what was going on pretty well in the US nowadays with police. Although I'm not black I do realize that police tend to be considerably harder on blacks. I've been harassed by the police plenty of times even though I'm white and live in an affluent area. So many police sympathizers and people who automatically assume that the police are correct have obviously haven't had any unpleasant interactions with the police.

[J3123MY]

Originally Posted by theronin

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

Are you fucking serious? Have you read the book 1984?

You just want to give the government all the power, huh? I bet you are against the bill of rights, too.

You are an ignorant fellow. Too much government power is a really, really, really, really, really, bad thing. At this rate, you will find out one day.

[TMW]

I'm pretty sure theronin was being sarcastic. At least I hope he was.

[J3123MY]

I was hoping too. But, somehow I don't think he was....

[theronin]

Imagine it guys. Would be like Ed TV starring the ridiculously good looking Mathew Mcconaughey, except for every person in the US!!!

[J3123MY]

theronin, have you ever heard, witnessed, or watched a video of a cop completely shitting on the constitution? How about on a larger scale, have you ever learned in history class of every cop acting together to shit on human rights?

[theronin]

Have you seen the video where the cat plays the piano? Gets me every time.

[TMW]

Originally Posted by theronin

Have you seen the video where the cat plays the piano? Gets me every time.

Would you mind embedding the video here? I haven't seen it.

[theronin]

The ending is the best.