The Future Automotive Thread

[Dutchmalmiss]

The days of expecting a generally likable car for under $30k are over.

The Miata and FRS/BRZ are the only ones so far and they don't satisfy everyone. Mustang Ecoboost is BARELY under $30k.

But neither did the 240sx back in the day either.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

The days of expecting a generally likable car for under $30k are over.

The Miata and FRS/BRZ are the only ones so far and they don't satisfy everyone. Mustang Ecoboost is BARELY under $30k.

But neither did the 240sx back in the day either.

240sx was $16,500 in 1990.

That is $29,000 adjusted for inflation in 2015.


Ecoboost still starts at $25,650.

FRS is $25,300

Miata is $24,916.


Miata and Ecoboost will both bust into the 30's once you load them up. There are just no options on the FRS.


What kills the Ecoboost is the GT. Sure it's $32k, but it's so fucking much more car.

Bama performance just ran 9.91 with bolt-ons and a 6spd....



Meanwhile it's now estimated the Ecoboost can only turn around 450whp before you get into the block window business...

Fuck 4-bangers.

[Frank_Jaeger]

3450lbs

*vomits uncontrollably*

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

*vomits uncontrollably*

With most of the interior gone too...

But when you look at the Challenger Hellcat, at 4,400lbs, the Mustang seems feather light...

[Corbic]

Another bolt on going 9.70...

[BossHogg]

not sure on the price differences but the new Camaro is in the 9's already to. I guess all this stuff matters if you are into drag racing lol. I never look at the 1/4 mile potential when buying a car lol. If we did, we would all own v8's. It's just easier.

[Lees_Garage]

Matt Farrah and Johnny Lieberman were talking about GM's new Alpha Platform (Camaro, ATS, etc) on The Smoking Tire Podcast the other day.


Johnny stated that when discussing the new Camaro SS, the staff from Motor Trend would compare it to BMW M3, and other similar cars. They said the chassis is so much better than the new Mustang, that the mustang is not even a very good comparison.


This comes painfully to me, being a Ford guy as far as domestics go, but GM has really figured out how to build a great chassis. i.e.: last two generations of Corvettes, and later 5th gen Camaro's.


I think these are basically our options as far as new cars go:


If you want a powerful car that is great on track with minor chassis mods and sticky tires:
Mustang
Camaro
M3/4
Weight is just a bi-product of new safety regulations, the size of these cars, etc. Although, having driven several new Mustangs, ZL1 and Z28 Camaros, and Dodge Challengers, I think that these cars feel very nimble for their weight, and that people who have driven them will agree.


If you want a light weight drivers car, aka modern 240:
Miata
FRS/BRZ


Personally, I will be stuffing a 400hp V8 in my S13, and buying a newer car to daily (Evo, STI, Camaro, CTS-V, Mustang, etc).

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BossHogg

not sure on the price differences but the new Camaro is in the 9's already to. I guess all this stuff matters if you are into drag racing lol. I never look at the 1/4 mile potential when buying a car lol..

It's a good assessment of how fast it is. While a Camaro being a few tenth faster would never sway me away from a Mustang.... A FRS or Miata is so God damn slow I could never own one.






[QUOTE=BossHogg;6006309If we did, we would all own v8's. It's just easier.[/QUOTE]


Well don't forget the 4Gs, 2Js and VRs..

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Lees_Garage

Matt Farrah

Saw Matt Fattard and stopped readying. Fuck that tool.

[Lees_Garage]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Saw Matt Fattard and stopped readying. Fuck that tool.

Whether he's a tool, or not, him and Lieberman have some pretty valid opinions. They drive any new car worth its salt, and are in tons of different cars all the time. They can offer pretty good comparisons.

[gearhead55]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Bama performance just ran 9.91 with bolt-ons and a 6spd....

Oh my god you are such a shill. "bolt ons", bullshit. It's a completely stripped, NITROUS car with intake manifold, RACE GAS, full suspension, SLICKS, lightweight driveshaft, etc. What would make it built? Pistons?

Bolt-ons means, headers, exhaust, intake (not intake manifold). AKA lightly modified street car.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Another bolt on going 9.70...

again, a fucking supercharger is not a "bolt-on".

you would get laughed at for saying "bolt-ons only" if you even have cams...

[RB25GUY]

this is my buddies internally stock motor 2012 5.0 he says just bolt ons but heres his mod list ran 10.90s

2012 Mustang GT with a 6R80 trans:
*COMPLETELY STOCK MOTOR, NEVER BEEN OPENED*
*COMPLETELY STOCK TRANSMISSION W/ SOLENOID TRANSBRAKE MOD DONE BY REVOLUTION AUTO*
*COMPLETELY STOCK REAR WITH 3.31 GEARS*
*3700LB RACE WEIGHT, NOT A LIGHTWEIGHT RACE CAR*
*DRIVEN TO TRACK, CHANGED TIRE PRESSURES, RACED, AND CHANGED THEM BACK AND DROVE HOME, AVG 21 MPG START TO FINISH....DAILY DRIVER 10 SEC CAR!!!!!*
Revolution Automotive Tuned
Cobra Jet Manifold
SuperCobra Jet TB
Rev Auto 5in Cobra Jet CAI
JBA 1-7/8 longtubes
JBA 3in H
Custom made 3" DynoMax Bullet Catback w/ Turndowns
1 Piece Driveshaft
Circle D 5c | Transbrake
3.31 ford racing gears
SVE Drag wheels 15x3.5 front 15x10 Rear
Mickey Thompson Pro Radial 275's
UPR Swaybar delete and poly race motor mounts
UPR basic non adjustable (cheapest) lower control arms
UMI Udjustable upper control arm
Lakewood rear 50/50 shocks
Lakewood front 70/30 Struts
Cobra Jet Springs (2008 old school style)

[gearhead55]

There is a huge difference between "internally stock" and "just bolt ons". These cars are modifying everything possible except the internals so that they can claim "just bolt ons". That's ridiculous. RB25guy that car has a freaking trans brake. And he really street drives on drag slicks? Come on.

They're all impressive drag cars, don't get me wrong, but it is so disingenuous to have a fully modified drag car but claim it's just bolt ons because you didn't swap internals.

[RB25GUY]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

There is a huge difference between "internally stock" and "just bolt ons". These cars are modifying everything possible except the internals so that they can claim "just bolt ons". That's ridiculous. RB25guy that car has a freaking trans brake. And he really street drives on drag slicks? Come on.

They're all impressive drag cars, don't get me wrong, but it is so disingenuous to have a fully modified drag car but claim it's just bolt ons because you didn't swap internals.

for the most part he drives it like this when he goes to the track ( i know hes a idiot) daily driving he has mickey street radials on 18s and 17 inch wheels with street tires on the front i laugh at him every time he tells me its just bolt ons.

[exitspeed]

Man I feel like it's 1999 and Ja Rule is releasing his first album with all this drag racing talk.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

Oh my god you are such a shill. "bolt ons", bullshit. It's a completely stripped, NITROUS car with intake manifold, RACE GAS, full suspension, SLICKS, lightweight driveshaft, etc. What would make it built? Pistons?

Bolt-ons means, headers, exhaust, intake (not intake manifold). AKA lightly modified street car.



again, a fucking supercharger is not a "bolt-on".

you would get laughed at for saying "bolt-ons only" if you even have cams...

Bolt on means exactly that, anything you bolt on. There is no customs fab, no pulling the engine apart, cam swapping etc.


That second car is not supercharged either...

Pretty sure anyone with a harbor freight tool set can install a canned tune, throw on some slicks, install some springs, exhaust and remove some interior pieces.

There is a whole series of videos for that Bama car showing the incremental improvements each mod did.

An FRS is not going to be able to do that.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

They're all impressive drag cars, don't get me wrong, but it is so disingenuous to have a fully modified drag car but claim it's just bolt ons because you didn't swap internals.

It's some suspension mods and other simple bolt ons....

You act like no one in the 240sx or FRS community does suspension mods....


That's what kills me. A 240 owner will get all custom arms, drop knuckles, subframe bushings, strut bars, tie rods, tension rods, ball joints and coil overs and think nothing of it...

They then bitch that a Mustang doesn't handle well stock and you have to modify the suspension for it to handle...

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

An FRS is not going to be able to do that.

Maybe not, but at least it can turn.

I thought people stopped caring about 1/4 mile times by the time Ja Rule released his third album. See what I did there?

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by Corbic

That second car is not supercharged either...
.

it has a 2.9 Whipple supercharger on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na7_tA2cxuc

[gearhead55]

Originally Posted by RB25GUY

for the most part he drives it like this when he goes to the track ( i know hes a idiot) daily driving he has mickey street radials on 18s and 17 inch wheels with street tires on the front i laugh at him every time he tells me its just bolt ons.

Exactly. My car is dangerous when it rains, and that's just because of worn out RSRs. Street driving slicks is crazy.

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's some suspension mods and other simple bolt ons....

You act like no one in the 240sx or FRS community does suspension mods....


That's what kills me. A 240 owner will get all custom arms, drop knuckles, subframe bushings, strut bars, tie rods, tension rods, ball joints and coil overs and think nothing of it...

They then bitch that a Mustang doesn't handle well stock and you have to modify the suspension for it to handle...

Your completely missing my point. A 240 owner will proudly tell you about every modification they have to do to make these old cars fast, a mustang owner will try to pretend the car is SOO FAST BONE STOCK*asterisk*asterisk*asterisk*.

You "bolt on" turbos too, but you will never hear someone say that a car with an aftermarket turbo kit and a custom tune "just has bolt ons".

It's like you didn't even watch the videos you posted. The Bama car had hours of custom dyno tuning running different intake manifolds to optimize a NITROUS set up on a race gas motor. Thats far from something any guy can do in his garage. The second car DOES have a supercharger, it says so in the video. You couldn't possibly claim that a forced induction kit is a bolt on.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Maybe not, but at least it can turn.



I thought people stopped caring about 1/4 mile times by the time Ja Rule released his third album. See what I did there?

Turn what?

Are you honestly saying a S197 or S550 is not a competent track car or can't drift?

I thought it was 2015 and we got past that Ja Rule Ricer Ignorance era....

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

it has a 2.9 Whipple supercharger on it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na7_tA2cxuc

You are right. I wasn't paying attention.




But you do install a supercharger by.... Bolting it On.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

Your completely missing my point. A 240 owner will proudly tell you about every modification they have to do to make these old cars fast, a mustang owner will try to pretend the car is SOO FAST BONE STOCK*asterisk*asterisk*asterisk*.
.

Meh. A 240 owner will spend more time talking about his wheels, body kit and what a unique snowflake he is than anything else.

That he'll talk about his built swapped engine...

I guess that's the thing for me. With the S550 you don't have to swap engine and transmissions. You don't need forged pistons and rods, you don't need custom cams and valve trains.


With a SR or FRS you do. SR can only hold around 400hp on its stock internals. It's transmission begins to fall apart around 350hp. The stock cams and springs blow. The stock turbo blows. The stock intake blows... On and on.

That's how most of these 4-cylinder turbo cars are. You end up having to pull the motor and rebuy just about everything if you want big power.

[SoundEfx]

Originally Posted by Corbic

You are right. I wasn't paying attention.




But you do install a supercharger by.... Bolting it On.

Are you saying that a supercharger is a bolt on but a turbo charger is not?

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Turn what?

Are you honestly saying a S197 or S550 is not a competent track car or can't drift?

I thought it was 2015 and we got past that Ja Rule Ricer Ignorance era....

I was referring to the drag set-ups in the videos above. I love the shit out of the new Mustangs. Just not a fan of straight line racing anymore.

[kingkilburn]

You don't have to modify an s13 to make it handle well. You have to modify it because it's 25 fucking years old. You have to modify it because you dropped it near to scraping frame.

When stock replacement is the same price as adjustable for no loss in comfort and drivability you'd have to be an idiot to not go aftermarket.




Completely overhauling the rear end of a solid axle car is a very very different thing entirely. Not even close to apples to apples.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You don't have to modify an s13 to make it handle well.

That depends on your definition of well. My S14 with coils, sways and RUCA was about equal to a stock 350z.


S-chassis have to be modded to make them handle decent compared to newer vehicles.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Future240

That depends on your definition of well. My S14 with coils, sways and RUCA was about equal to a stock 350z.


S-chassis have to be modded to make them handle decent compared to newer vehicles.

Yeah but if that's all you have to do to a 20 year old car to make it handle like a modern Z...not bad. Those kind of mods can be done in a day and cost a couple thousand.

[future]

Have you actually driven both cars to say that?


I've had both and I'll tell you a S13 with full suspension arms and coils is no where near anything of the Z33. That old ass car has so much flex it's sad it was ever called a sports car


My Z only has coils wheels and rear camber arms and I promise you it'll run circles around a stock 240 with suspension through the turns. Don't get menough started on the chassis, brakes, power, modern interior or any of that

[SoundEfx]

Everything depends on how you look at it.

No one in their right mind would say that the S13 and S14 interior is going to win any awards in today's market, BUT if you put the same amount of money into it as the price of a new car, it WILL hold it's own. And that is what I think everyone is saying.

Some ones buys a new $30K car and another person buys a solid S14 shell for $3K and have $27K to drop into it. That will have the brand new car owner shaking because they know that the S14 will not be a walk in the park.

That is what I tell my friends anyway....lol