Installing cams need help!! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

91stockcoupe · 10-04-2016, 08:23 PM

Hi everyone so I'm doing a head gasket job on my ka and I'm having trouble putting the cams back into place. All the things that I've read just say that it'll just go right back into place but this is t working for me. I've only tried putting in the exhaust cam in but my problem is that it won't sit right because the middle two lobes hit the shims. I'm pretty sure I don't have the cams mixed up and the motor was at tdc when I took it apart. It's normal for all the valves to be closed at tdc right? I'm just wondering if there is a tool I need to compress the valves so that the cam lobes will clear them? The motor is in the car already if that matters. This is my only car and I need to deal with this asap really hoping that I'm just not trying hard enough, any help is appreciated. The picture is of how the lifters are sitting in the car right now, is this normal?

https://s22.postimg.org/ad3vpcak1/IMG_5380.jpg

KojiKP · 10-04-2016, 08:48 PM

With no camshaft in place, all the valves should be fullly closed due to spring pressure. When you try to install the cam, some lobes will be pressing on the buckets, in turn pushing down on the spring and opening the valve. No.1 should be at TDC which would mean all valves for that cylinder are closed.

derass · 10-04-2016, 08:54 PM

I've never done cams on a KA, but I'm sure it's all the same.

If the crank is as TDC, install the cams with their gear markings in approximately the right position, then start bolting down the caps. You might need an extra set of hands to press the cam down on the lifter while getting the caps started. Then just tighten the caps down as per the FSM. Which I'm sure explains all of this anyway.

EDIT: Should also mention: make sure the cap bolts are threaded in sufficiently before trying to use them to completely seat the cam on the lifters. Without enough thread engagement, you could strip the threads in the head which would be a major headache.

91stockcoupe · 10-04-2016, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derass

I've never done cams on a KA, but I'm sure it's all the same.

If the crank is as TDC, install the cams with their gear markings in approximately the right position, then start bolting down the caps. You might need an extra set of hands to press the cam down on the lifter while getting the caps started. Then just tighten the caps down as per the FSM. Which I'm sure explains all of this anyway.

Thank you for the response, so it's normal for the lobes to hit the lifters?

derass · 10-04-2016, 09:24 PM

Yes. Like mentioned in post #2, all the valve will be closed without the cams in place. You will have to "force" some of them open during installation.

jedi03 · 10-05-2016, 12:07 AM

I usually start toward the cam side tighten down and when feel resistance work my way back and keep doin this tull they are all snugged up!

derass · 10-05-2016, 09:44 AM

What is the cam side of the cam?

jedi03 · 10-05-2016, 11:24 AM

sorry chain side...stupid autocorrect lol

TheRealSy90 · 10-05-2016, 04:28 PM

INB4 broken camshafts.

Tighten them down slowly in steps as per the FSM.

KAT-PWR · 10-05-2016, 04:53 PM

Also you need an In-lb torque wrench

*brndck* · 10-05-2016, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedi03

sorry chain side...stupid autocorrect lol

WORST IDEA IVE HEARD ALL DAY

follow the damn FSM, otherwise, you're BEGGING to snap a camshaft.

KAT-PWR · 10-05-2016, 05:25 PM

Also don't force any bolts. Chase questionable threads

91stockcoupe · 10-05-2016, 05:35 PM

Thank you for all the responses, I'll be careful so I don't break anything

Habibi240 · 10-05-2016, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brndck

WORST IDEA IVE HEARD ALL DAY

follow the damn FSM, otherwise, you're BEGGING to snap a camshaft.

I snapped an SR cam last week . Not cool. use the right wrench and do it slowly & don't double click you can over torque that way

jedi03 · 10-05-2016, 10:38 PM

I love the "garunteed broken" been doin this for quite a while and a brand new built Sr running amazingly! But most people can mess it up so yes don't do it by feel and use the right torque wrench

KAT-PWR · 10-05-2016, 11:10 PM

He's more referring to the illogical part where you tighten front to back instead of working from the middle outward in both directions applying force evenly across the width of the cam

Tyler_240 · 10-06-2016, 05:29 AM

Just in case the OP was planning to not use a in-lbs torque wrench, you can get one for $38 on amazon. Worked perfect. Probably never use it again, but worked great on the cams.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

91stockcoupe · 10-06-2016, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler_240

Just in case the OP was planning to not use a in-lbs torque wrench, you can get one for $38 on amazon. Worked perfect. Probably never use it again, but worked great on the cams.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for the link!

hanzbrady · 10-06-2016, 07:11 AM

Let's just simplify this,

As for tools, you can just use a 1/4" drive short ratchet and a normal 10mm socket, you will tighten them to snug and then a little past it. They will not all go in evenly, you will be tightening them snug then move on to next bolt in the order, as you tighten them the lobes on the cam will be pushing the valves open, this will give some resistance and once you feel it it's time to stop and move to the next bolt.

TheRealSy90 · 10-10-2016, 06:18 PM

Weird, I've seen instructions that say to tighten from the chain end first since that end of the cam the lobes aren't pushing on the valves. And then slowly work back and forth along the cam length until it's all the way down. Could be wrong though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jedi03 · 10-10-2016, 07:00 PM

It's easier to do it that way if the chain is on the cam...the correct tway is center out...even pressure as its tightened down...

Kingtal0n · 10-10-2016, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Weird, I've seen instructions that say to tighten from the chain end first since that end of the cam the lobes aren't pushing on the valves. And then slowly work back and forth along the cam length until it's all the way down. Could be wrong though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know about the KA, but the SR20 instructions say something like this for sure. The bolts close to the front of the engine get the first torque. And then it goes back to middle-out I think.

you have to read the whole thing, the picture alone might not tell the whole story.

TheRealSy90 · 10-10-2016, 09:16 PM

Yeah that's what I remember.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hanzbrady · 10-10-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

I don't know about the KA, but the SR20 instructions say something like this for sure. The bolts close to the front of the engine get the first torque. And then it goes back to middle-out I think.

you have to read the whole thing, the picture alone might not tell the whole story.

This would be relatively true if you were installing the cams with the gears already installed but when you're building from scratch you start with bare cams then install the gears.

Regardless of the engine, you always torque camshafts from the inside out. The only time you'd skip around or deviate from that order is when you're snugging the cam down due to the valves opening. Basically you tighten 1 cam cap at a time till it starts to build resistance then move to the next in order and repeat. As per final torquing inside to out side is how it's done. Same as a head or crankshaft.

10-04-2016, 08:23 PM	#1
91stockcoupe Leaky Injector Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Petaluma Posts: 148 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Installing cams need help!! Hi everyone so I'm doing a head gasket job on my ka and I'm having trouble putting the cams back into place. All the things that I've read just say that it'll just go right back into place but this is t working for me. I've only tried putting in the exhaust cam in but my problem is that it won't sit right because the middle two lobes hit the shims. I'm pretty sure I don't have the cams mixed up and the motor was at tdc when I took it apart. It's normal for all the valves to be closed at tdc right? I'm just wondering if there is a tool I need to compress the valves so that the cam lobes will clear them? The motor is in the car already if that matters. This is my only car and I need to deal with this asap really hoping that I'm just not trying hard enough, any help is appreciated. The picture is of how the lifters are sitting in the car right now, is this normal? https://s22.postimg.org/ad3vpcak1/IMG_5380.jpg

10-04-2016, 08:54 PM	#3
derass Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 37 Posts: 1,182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've never done cams on a KA, but I'm sure it's all the same. If the crank is as TDC, install the cams with their gear markings in approximately the right position, then start bolting down the caps. You might need an extra set of hands to press the cam down on the lifter while getting the caps started. Then just tighten the caps down as per the FSM. Which I'm sure explains all of this anyway. EDIT: Should also mention: make sure the cap bolts are threaded in sufficiently before trying to use them to completely seat the cam on the lifters. Without enough thread engagement, you could strip the threads in the head which would be a major headache. Last edited by derass; 10-04-2016 at 09:32 PM..

10-05-2016, 04:53 PM	#10
KAT-PWR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: US Posts: 2,040 Trader Rating: (11) Rides Gallery: KAT-PWR Feedback Score: 11 reviews	Also you need an In-lb torque wrench __________________ MRP Manufacturing

10-05-2016, 05:25 PM	#12
KAT-PWR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: US Posts: 2,040 Trader Rating: (11) Rides Gallery: KAT-PWR Feedback Score: 11 reviews	Also don't force any bolts. Chase questionable threads __________________ MRP Manufacturing

10-05-2016, 11:10 PM	#16
KAT-PWR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: US Posts: 2,040 Trader Rating: (11) Rides Gallery: KAT-PWR Feedback Score: 11 reviews	He's more referring to the illogical part where you tighten front to back instead of working from the middle outward in both directions applying force evenly across the width of the cam __________________ MRP Manufacturing

10-04-2016, 08:48 PM	#2
KojiKP Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington Age: 35 Posts: 44 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	With no camshaft in place, all the valves should be fullly closed due to spring pressure. When you try to install the cam, some lobes will be pressing on the buckets, in turn pushing down on the spring and opening the valve. No.1 should be at TDC which would mean all valves for that cylinder are closed.

10-04-2016, 09:24 PM	#5
derass Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 37 Posts: 1,182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yes. Like mentioned in post #2, all the valve will be closed without the cams in place. You will have to "force" some of them open during installation.

10-05-2016, 12:07 AM	#6
jedi03 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: albuquerque Posts: 1,842 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I usually start toward the cam side tighten down and when feel resistance work my way back and keep doin this tull they are all snugged up!

10-05-2016, 09:44 AM	#7
derass Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 37 Posts: 1,182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What is the cam side of the cam?

10-05-2016, 11:24 AM	#8
jedi03 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: albuquerque Posts: 1,842 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	sorry chain side...stupid autocorrect lol

10-05-2016, 05:35 PM	#13
91stockcoupe Leaky Injector Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Petaluma Posts: 148 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Thank you for all the responses, I'll be careful so I don't break anything

10-05-2016, 10:38 PM	#15
jedi03 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: albuquerque Posts: 1,842 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I love the "garunteed broken" been doin this for quite a while and a brand new built Sr running amazingly! But most people can mess it up so yes don't do it by feel and use the right torque wrench

10-06-2016, 05:29 AM	#17
Tyler_240 Zilvia Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 239 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Just in case the OP was planning to not use a in-lbs torque wrench, you can get one for $38 on amazon. Worked perfect. Probably never use it again, but worked great on the cams. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 __________________ S13 SR20DET 12.9 ET @ 111 MPH

10-06-2016, 07:11 AM	#19
hanzbrady Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,166 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Let's just simplify this, As for tools, you can just use a 1/4" drive short ratchet and a normal 10mm socket, you will tighten them to snug and then a little past it. They will not all go in evenly, you will be tightening them snug then move on to next bolt in the order, as you tighten them the lobes on the cam will be pushing the valves open, this will give some resistance and once you feel it it's time to stop and move to the next bolt. __________________ [email protected]

10-10-2016, 07:00 PM	#21
jedi03 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: albuquerque Posts: 1,842 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	It's easier to do it that way if the chain is on the cam...the correct tway is center out...even pressure as its tightened down...