Auto-x with a 2 way. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

420sx · 04-11-2005, 02:20 PM

i dont wanna hear about helical, vlsd and 1.5 way in this thread.

just curious, anyone runs auto-x with a 2way clutch type? whatcha think?

420sx · 04-13-2005, 06:04 PM

hmmm..... so nobody..... how dissapointing

A Spec Products · 04-13-2005, 06:12 PM

2 way would suck for auto-x

It would probably get you kicked off the course for "squirreling"

Maeda · 04-13-2005, 06:19 PM

I would assume there's nothing inherently WRONG with a 2 way for autox...

But then again, I'm talking completely out of my ass.

Why a 2 way? and not a helical?

420sx · 04-13-2005, 06:29 PM

because............. i know people run helical, 15. way, and vlsd all day in auto-x.
i just wanna see if anyone does, curiousity
my question was:

"does anyone run a 2 way on auto-x, what do you think?"

i think its possible just need very grippy tires and no stretch. i just want some actual input in the question

OptionZero · 04-13-2005, 07:36 PM

2-way = looser rear end = less grip...whenever you have wheels spinning you are going slower

You COULD run a 2-way in auto-X....but then, you COULD run a Buick in Auto-X. The queston is why would you?

For drift:
2-way
Weld Locd
VLSD
1.5
Helical
VLSD
Phantom Grip
open diff

For grip:
1.5 way clutch or Helical
2-way
VLSD
Phantom Grip
open diff

Now a REAL question would be which is better on a road course, 1.5 clutch type or Helical? On Freshalloy I remember an interesting discussion, but no definitive answer was obtained.

As I understand it, you want maximum grip at all times, because grip is like money. You spend available grip on acceleration, braking, and turning. More grip, more available to accelerate, brake, and turn.

When you are in a corner, grip is lost in an open diff car because power finds its way to the inside tire. The two tires have to travel at different speeds because the outside wheel has a larger radius...and its the one that needs the power its not getting. A helical fixes that because it "sends" torque to the outside wheel, creating a force that helps you turn. You can get on gas and rotate much more quickly. with torque going to the outside wheel.

A 1.5way "locks" under acceleration, right? When you lock, it forces the wheels to spin at equal speeds. Since the outside wheel should actually be spinning FASTER than the inside wheel...why would this be good? From what i've read its accepted that a 1.5way is GOOD for grip...I just never understood why...or how this could even compare to a Torsen/Helical.

Ian · 04-13-2005, 08:42 PM

because IIRC the 1.5way wont lock under decel like a 2 way...meaning when you turn in off throttle the wheels wont stay locked...or something

dct223 · 04-13-2005, 08:44 PM

i know matt (speedmonkeyinc) ran some autox events with his kaaz 2way, he had it set on 80% locking though...

maybe u can PM him

420sx · 04-14-2005, 12:08 AM

^^ yea thats more the kind of feedback i was looking at dct33.

and i know all your saying Optionzero, thats not the question tho. im aware whats best and how things work, i was asking if anyone runs it. that was it

KiDyNomiTe · 04-14-2005, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainevent212

because IIRC the 1.5way wont lock under decel like a 2 way...meaning when you turn in off throttle the wheels wont stay locked...or something

it will, just not as much

2 way in autocrosses will suck unless you have really good tires. If you have a 2 way there is a good chance you have a lot of castor and a lot of camber, get those out, and get some big and good tires, it'll still be hard to keep it from sliding but that will help a little.

1.5 is best all around, but for strict drifiting not the greatest, you'll really notice the difference in technical courses, and the rain.

SpeedMonkeyInc · 04-14-2005, 01:01 AM

I run a 2 way at autox, road course grip, drift. Its fine. Yes I have the diff set at 80% lock ( I cant believe dct remembered that! ) I LOVE it. You just cant be a throttle monkey, you gotta finesse it. Really tight autox type corners are where you are really going to have to be smooth on the throttle.
Under power, a 2 way will work exactly like a 1.5 way, or a 1 way or a welded diff. Locked drive wheels are locked drive wheels, regardless of the device or method used to lock them.
With a 2 way its under hard braking that things get tricky. You will find the rear coming around on you during trail braking. That can be useful, or it can just screw things up. I am not good enough to make it useful, so I do my best to brake as straight as possible until the last second and then let up and turn. A 1.5 way would be more forgiving in that situation. A 1 way would do nothing.
From all my personally experience driving grip and drift, and everything in between...I love my noisy-ass Kaaz to death. Not the best choice for autox from a competitive standpoint, but a very good choice for a all around performance upgrade.

dct223 · 04-14-2005, 01:06 AM

lol...

i dunno man.. that time at NCDA, i just remember u telling a bunch of people ur 2way was at 80% and it just stuck in my head...

Davis

ghostuss · 04-14-2005, 01:10 AM

^^LOL I am sorry I can't help it. It's just funny.

dct223 · 04-14-2005, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostuss

^^LOL I am sorry I can't help it. It's just funny.

huh? if ur thinking im like a stalker or weird for remembering it... speedmonkeyinc is the brother of a guy i know... so i was just hanging out with them at the first NCDA event, and a bunch of people asked him what stuff he did on his car, and he said he had a 2way at 80%

SpeedMonkeyInc · 04-14-2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostuss

^^LOL I am sorry I can't help it. It's just funny.

Whats funny?

420sx · 04-14-2005, 07:50 AM

^^beats me

jy116 · 04-15-2005, 01:07 AM

cool, good discussion. Im lookin for diff options too. I have VLSD... pretty random, not sure when its locked, but not too bad. Still havent done too many events besides a few drift practice and few autoX.

Regarding autoX w/ 2way, though I havent had 1st hand exp w/ that, but I can tell u that i dont tihnk it should dissuade you. Most of the braking in autoX is done in a straight line anyways. U really lose time for not slowing enough b4 a turn. I learned the hard way in my first events. Understeer like a biatch... Anyways, the locked decelleration wont matter cuz ur stil goin straight [ideally], then when u turn in, hope theres enough spin to get around without spinning out. Does 2 way lock even after braking? If so, hows it different from welded? Maybe the 80% is wut makes the big difference...

Dude... i cant help but to ask... wuts up with ur sig?! ahahaha, is that ur frend and u jus added a few sizes to her jugs? haha...

420sx · 04-15-2005, 07:47 AM

^^^ its my moms friend......

no, its some porn model.

04-11-2005, 02:20 PM	#1
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Auto-x with a 2 way. i dont wanna hear about helical, vlsd and 1.5 way in this thread. just curious, anyone runs auto-x with a 2way clutch type? whatcha think? __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......

04-13-2005, 06:04 PM	#2
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hmmm..... so nobody..... how dissapointing __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......

04-13-2005, 06:12 PM	#3
A Spec Products Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Socal! Off 60/605 Posts: 7,256 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	2 way would suck for auto-x It would probably get you kicked off the course for "squirreling" __________________ A SPEC PRODUCTS CORP AME Wheels, Advan, ARC, Gram Lights, Nardi, Personal, Recaro, Works Bell, Work Wheels, Volk Racing, 5Zigen, & more! 626.618.1100 x 103 / aim: aspectuan Advertiser's Specials! Read / Give Feedback! Please Rate Us!

04-13-2005, 06:19 PM	#4
Maeda Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Camp Snake Bite, CA RIP Posts: 2,356 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Maeda Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I would assume there's nothing inherently WRONG with a 2 way for autox... But then again, I'm talking completely out of my ass. Why a 2 way? and not a helical? __________________

04-13-2005, 06:29 PM	#5
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	because............. i know people run helical, 15. way, and vlsd all day in auto-x. i just wanna see if anyone does, curiousity my question was: "does anyone run a 2 way on auto-x, what do you think?" i think its possible just need very grippy tires and no stretch. i just want some actual input in the question __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......

04-13-2005, 07:36 PM	#6
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 41 Posts: 6,263 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	2-way = looser rear end = less grip...whenever you have wheels spinning you are going slower You COULD run a 2-way in auto-X....but then, you COULD run a Buick in Auto-X. The queston is why would you? For drift: 2-way Weld Locd VLSD 1.5 Helical VLSD Phantom Grip open diff For grip: 1.5 way clutch or Helical 2-way VLSD Phantom Grip open diff Now a REAL question would be which is better on a road course, 1.5 clutch type or Helical? On Freshalloy I remember an interesting discussion, but no definitive answer was obtained. As I understand it, you want maximum grip at all times, because grip is like money. You spend available grip on acceleration, braking, and turning. More grip, more available to accelerate, brake, and turn. When you are in a corner, grip is lost in an open diff car because power finds its way to the inside tire. The two tires have to travel at different speeds because the outside wheel has a larger radius...and its the one that needs the power its not getting. A helical fixes that because it "sends" torque to the outside wheel, creating a force that helps you turn. You can get on gas and rotate much more quickly. with torque going to the outside wheel. A 1.5way "locks" under acceleration, right? When you lock, it forces the wheels to spin at equal speeds. Since the outside wheel should actually be spinning FASTER than the inside wheel...why would this be good? From what i've read its accepted that a 1.5way is GOOD for grip...I just never understood why...or how this could even compare to a Torsen/Helical.

04-13-2005, 08:44 PM	#8
dct223 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: hella NORCAL! Age: 39 Posts: 1,664 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	i know matt (speedmonkeyinc) ran some autox events with his kaaz 2way, he had it set on 80% locking though... maybe u can PM him __________________ Sfourteen

04-14-2005, 12:08 AM	#9
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^ yea thats more the kind of feedback i was looking at dct33. and i know all your saying Optionzero, thats not the question tho. im aware whats best and how things work, i was asking if anyone runs it. that was it __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......

04-14-2005, 01:01 AM	#11
SpeedMonkeyInc Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oakland Age: 45 Posts: 1,271 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I run a 2 way at autox, road course grip, drift. Its fine. Yes I have the diff set at 80% lock ( I cant believe dct remembered that! ) I LOVE it. You just cant be a throttle monkey, you gotta finesse it. Really tight autox type corners are where you are really going to have to be smooth on the throttle. Under power, a 2 way will work exactly like a 1.5 way, or a 1 way or a welded diff. Locked drive wheels are locked drive wheels, regardless of the device or method used to lock them. With a 2 way its under hard braking that things get tricky. You will find the rear coming around on you during trail braking. That can be useful, or it can just screw things up. I am not good enough to make it useful, so I do my best to brake as straight as possible until the last second and then let up and turn. A 1.5 way would be more forgiving in that situation. A 1 way would do nothing. From all my personally experience driving grip and drift, and everything in between...I love my noisy-ass Kaaz to death. Not the best choice for autox from a competitive standpoint, but a very good choice for a all around performance upgrade.

04-14-2005, 01:06 AM	#12
dct223 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: hella NORCAL! Age: 39 Posts: 1,664 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	lol... i dunno man.. that time at NCDA, i just remember u telling a bunch of people ur 2way was at 80% and it just stuck in my head... Davis __________________ Sfourteen

04-14-2005, 01:10 AM	#13
ghostuss Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego/San Francisco Age: 39 Posts: 1,337 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^LOL I am sorry I can't help it. It's just funny. __________________ 96 all suspension s14 SOLD 90 s13 coupe - SOLD Currently rocking 2002 BMW M3 w/ custom suspension. ButtonWillow, CA entire circuit drift/grip event by shock drifting spot for sale. Take over my spot for $150 only.

04-14-2005, 07:50 AM	#16
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^beats me __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......

04-15-2005, 01:07 AM	#17
jy116 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Berkeley, CALifornia Posts: 785 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	cool, good discussion. Im lookin for diff options too. I have VLSD... pretty random, not sure when its locked, but not too bad. Still havent done too many events besides a few drift practice and few autoX. Regarding autoX w/ 2way, though I havent had 1st hand exp w/ that, but I can tell u that i dont tihnk it should dissuade you. Most of the braking in autoX is done in a straight line anyways. U really lose time for not slowing enough b4 a turn. I learned the hard way in my first events. Understeer like a biatch... Anyways, the locked decelleration wont matter cuz ur stil goin straight [ideally], then when u turn in, hope theres enough spin to get around without spinning out. Does 2 way lock even after braking? If so, hows it different from welded? Maybe the 80% is wut makes the big difference... Dude... i cant help but to ask... wuts up with ur sig?! ahahaha, is that ur frend and u jus added a few sizes to her jugs? haha... __________________ KYB AGX w/ dust boots $500obo... sadly serious

04-15-2005, 07:47 AM	#18
420sx Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Age: 42 Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 420sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^ its my moms friend...... no, its some porn model. __________________ hydropgrahics! ls1......