1995 ka24de *pinging noise* - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

aznpoopy · 06-03-2005, 06:21 PM

1995 OBDI ka24de
120k on the clock
both timing chain guides removed

got a very quiet pinging noise... like metal tapping on metal coming from somewhere in the engine. trouble is over the stupid fan and the exhaust i can't pin point it. it gets more noticeable if there's more load at idle (like turning on the highbeams).

my friends all think i'm crazy because they can't hear shit. but i know my car.

thought it might be the chain tensioners are a little stuck from age, making the chain a little slack causing it to tap against something. anyone know what that sounds like?

any ideas?

Dorifto89 · 06-03-2005, 10:27 PM

Detonation maybe?

SochBAT · 06-03-2005, 10:57 PM

Im thinkin maybe your lifters? Try pouring oil directly on them. Drive around for a day or so, see if its still tapping.

aznpoopy · 06-04-2005, 12:02 AM

ill give that a shot this weekend.

don't think its detonation... timing is a-ok and it's pretty much a stock ka24. i use high octane gas too.

Dream240 · 06-04-2005, 09:55 AM

Does the pinging get faster when you rev up the engine? Or is it a constact sound from idle to 2000rpms? Also does it ever completely go away?

My guess is you have either a floating valve (bad valve spring), loose timing chain, or worn valve guides (causing the valve stem to rattle at low rpms, too much clearance in there).

Does your car blow blue smoke? A sure fire way to eliminate bad valve guides is to take your car out to a hill, punch the gas to about redline then back off, do this 3 times. Then stop and check to see if you have a trail of blue smoke behind you....if so it's worn guides.

Good luck.

Redsunz916 · 06-04-2005, 11:15 AM

how bout the timing chain guide, it is a COMMEN PROBLEM with ka24de. when i rebuilt mine i only put the main one. theres usually 3 but u only need one cuz the other 2 break and nissan removes them as a factory defect.

aznpoopy · 06-04-2005, 10:43 PM

thanks for the suggestion red, i took out the two upper timing chain guides a long time ago.

thanks for the info dream. i have a feeling that may be my issue. i checked out the procedure in the FSM. seems like i might as well do a full timing chain job, change the head gasket, and replace all the valve crap in the head. i don't know if that's feasible as a weekend project.

i wonder if i should just find myself a low mileage ka24de and drop it in instead. what a headache...

Dream240 · 06-05-2005, 07:41 AM

Well, if you want to learn how the KA is put together, get another block and swap it in. then you can tear down your old one to your hearts content!!

First things first though.....do a timing chain replace first. Hell of a lot cheaper and easier than doing a swap. Might fix it. If not then you know what you have to do.

BigVinnie · 06-05-2005, 08:52 AM

Actually 1995 are OBD2 with a compression of 9.6:1 ment for 91 octane at 20BTDC. If your using 91 at 20btdc that isn't your problem, unless your plugs and wires exceed over 30,000. "Typical situation"
If you have what is more of a pinging and rattling that sounds as if it comes from the front of the head that would be the 2 top timing chain guide tensioners. Nissan actually has mandated/recalled that the 2 top tensioners are faulty and can break. This will also mean the addition of a new timing chain, do to the fact nthat the chain can stretch sooner than later from glidding along the cam sprocket teeth. This problem usuall starts to occur in the KA24de at about 60,000 to 100,000 depending on how much high rev abuse the KADE has been through.
There is another condition that if it comes from anywhere else in the head you may have what are called floating valves but that sound you usually can't hear until about 3000RPM......

aznpoopy · 06-05-2005, 02:09 PM

yeah dream, i'm looking to pick up a low mileage ka24 and drop it in. everyone tells me its a helluva lot easier then trying to rebuild the head in 2 days. timing chain job isn't a bad idea either, but i think i'm just going to do a swap. i'll do the timing chain job on the 'new' motor instead. sourcing one out should be pretty quick. i have to do a clutch job anyway, so the timing is actually pretty good. in the meantime, i'm just going to pop off the front cover and see if it's the upper and lower tensioners. i'm thinking they might be partially frozen with gunk.

thanks for the suggestions bigvinnie. actually 1995 240sx's are split between OBDI and OBDII, depending on the date of manufacture. i already removed the timing chain guides a long time ago. i set my timing myself as well. timing chain tensioners? i think you mean timing chain guides. the timing chain tensioners don't really break oh a dohc motor. they just get clogged up with gunk and stop fucntioning, resulting in a slack chain.

supracrazy · 06-05-2005, 07:39 PM

I have that same problem but it dosn't happen until the car is under loadand at high rpms. When i just rev it nothing happends It jsut revs how it should, but as soon as I put it in gear it stutters at around 2krpm 3krpm 3.5krpm and when i get to about 5500rpm the engine seems to loose all power and slowly go to 6k then the engine wont rev any higherwhile in that gear. Also it doesnt ideal properly it keeps goin from about 700rpm to 1200rpm over and over. and ocasionally goes lower and then stalls. I changed all my plugs and im not sure it if is a ingition problem ot valve timing problem The car is a Stock 95 with 131 thousand miles. also do yuo think it has somthing to do with the pressuer plate?
I got the car when it had 128 thousand and the only probleme then was the ideal but now it is just plain screwed up.

Thanks,
J.Brown
please help me
also I dont wanna invest that much in the motor because I will be doing a swap soon, but it is just unbearable to deal with it staling at lights and accelerating all fucked up. Literally the car like jumps forward and backwards when it stutters during the rpms above.
and I only use 93 octane

nistech · 06-05-2005, 11:37 PM

try using 87 see what happens it is most likely detonation cuz u use high octane gas

nistech · 06-05-2005, 11:38 PM

why would u use 93 if the car is stock...

Dream240 · 06-06-2005, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nistech

try using 87 see what happens it is most likely detonation cuz u use high octane gas

Uh...93 octane gas won't cause detonation unless you have a deisel. Detonation occurs when you have too low an octane. Nissan recommends 91 octane in all 240s so 93 octane isn't going to hurt it or really help it all that much either. Maybe a little more power but not noticable in the cockpit. 87 octane will likely make the problem worse.

You have a vacuum leak for starters. That's why you have an erratic idle. Also your acceleration problem sounds like a slipping clutch. Let me guess....have you been dropping the car into gear at about 3-5 rpms??? Even for just one night? Cmon be honest....it's too tempting not to right? I'm sure that's your problem, bad clutch will slip the heavier the load gets. More rpms = heavier load = more slippage. Time for a new clutch kit.

supracrazy · 06-06-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream240

Uh...93 octane gas won't cause detonation unless you have a deisel. Detonation occurs when you have too low an octane. Nissan recommends 91 octane in all 240s so 93 octane isn't going to hurt it or really help it all that much either. Maybe a little more power but not noticable in the cockpit. 87 octane will likely make the problem worse.

You have a vacuum leak for starters. That's why you have an erratic idle. Also your acceleration problem sounds like a slipping clutch. Let me guess....have you been dropping the car into gear at about 3-5 rpms??? Even for just one night? Cmon be honest....it's too tempting not to right? I'm sure that's your problem, bad clutch will slip the heavier the load gets. More rpms = heavier load = more slippage. Time for a new clutch kit.

Hmm I never thought it might be a vacuum leak but. I dont think it is a cltuch probleme because I always thought that the clutch slips only unter heavy load. but when i even accelorate slow. it jupms and when accelorating fast it doent jump as bad.

but I will tri and fint the leak. somehow

Dream240 · 06-06-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supracrazy

Hmm I never thought it might be a vacuum leak but. I dont think it is a cltuch probleme because I always thought that the clutch slips only unter heavy load. but when i even accelorate slow. it jupms and when accelorating fast it doent jump as bad.

but I will tri and fint the leak. somehow

Okay to find the vacuum leak, get a can of throttle body intake cleaner. Start the car and spray the can into areas like around the intake manifold gaskets, the throttle body gasket, the various vacuum hoses around the manifold. As you spray pay attention to the idle of the car. If it gets worse as you spray the can in a particular area then you've got a leak around there. Also you will notice the fluid being sucked in and not just running off.

Here's some other check points:
Is your car stock? Do you have an aftermarket intake? If so make sure all your hoses are connected properly. Check your MAF. Clean the sensor with some rubbing alcohol and a Q-tip.
Check your air filter for dirt build up. A badly clogged air filter can cause some problems. Maybe you go a dirt clod or rock stuck in there....trust me it can happen.
Are your spark plugs & wires new? Check to make sure your spark plugs are installed correctly (tightened properly) and that your wires are hooked up properly, ie. make sure Cyl. 1 wire is connected to port 1 on the dist cap etc.
I had an erratic idle when I first got my 96' and it turned out to be the upper intake manifold gaskets. Dealer replaced them and no more problems. If that's where your having a problem good luck those things are a PITA to change out in your garage.

Good luck.

BigVinnie · 06-06-2005, 01:30 PM

[QUOTE=aznpoopy]
timing chain tensioners? i think you mean timing chain guides. QUOTE]

Yeah your right sometimes I get into typing before I am thinking the 2 top guides have a recall.

Dream240 · 06-06-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Yeah your right sometimes I get into typing before I am thinking the 2 top guides have a recall.

So does that mean that Nissan will actually go in and pull those guides out for free? Or maybe do a full timing chain job? Anyone know?

evanl85 · 06-06-2005, 09:22 PM

I believe it is a TSB, not a recall, so no they will not do anything at all for free.

Dream240 · 06-07-2005, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanl85

I believe it is a TSB, not a recall, so no they will not do anything at all for free.

...damn it...

06-03-2005, 06:21 PM	#1
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	1995 ka24de pinging noise 1995 OBDI ka24de 120k on the clock both timing chain guides removed got a very quiet pinging noise... like metal tapping on metal coming from somewhere in the engine. trouble is over the stupid fan and the exhaust i can't pin point it. it gets more noticeable if there's more load at idle (like turning on the highbeams). my friends all think i'm crazy because they can't hear shit. but i know my car. thought it might be the chain tensioners are a little stuck from age, making the chain a little slack causing it to tap against something. anyone know what that sounds like? any ideas?

06-04-2005, 09:55 AM	#5
Dream240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Inland Empire, California Age: 46 Posts: 2,188 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Does the pinging get faster when you rev up the engine? Or is it a constact sound from idle to 2000rpms? Also does it ever completely go away? My guess is you have either a floating valve (bad valve spring), loose timing chain, or worn valve guides (causing the valve stem to rattle at low rpms, too much clearance in there). Does your car blow blue smoke? A sure fire way to eliminate bad valve guides is to take your car out to a hill, punch the gas to about redline then back off, do this 3 times. Then stop and check to see if you have a trail of blue smoke behind you....if so it's worn guides. Good luck. __________________ Don't mess with my monkey...he's loaded.

06-05-2005, 07:41 AM	#8
Dream240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Inland Empire, California Age: 46 Posts: 2,188 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Well, if you want to learn how the KA is put together, get another block and swap it in. then you can tear down your old one to your hearts content!! First things first though.....do a timing chain replace first. Hell of a lot cheaper and easier than doing a swap. Might fix it. If not then you know what you have to do. __________________ Don't mess with my monkey...he's loaded.

06-03-2005, 10:27 PM	#2
Dorifto89 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Like an electron. Posts: 416 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Detonation maybe?

06-03-2005, 10:57 PM	#3
SochBAT Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Age: 39 Posts: 6,428 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: SochBAT Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Im thinkin maybe your lifters? Try pouring oil directly on them. Drive around for a day or so, see if its still tapping.

06-04-2005, 12:02 AM	#4
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	ill give that a shot this weekend. don't think its detonation... timing is a-ok and it's pretty much a stock ka24. i use high octane gas too.

06-04-2005, 11:15 AM	#6
Redsunz916 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sacramento Ca USA Posts: 403 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how bout the timing chain guide, it is a COMMEN PROBLEM with ka24de. when i rebuilt mine i only put the main one. theres usually 3 but u only need one cuz the other 2 break and nissan removes them as a factory defect.

06-04-2005, 10:43 PM	#7
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	thanks for the suggestion red, i took out the two upper timing chain guides a long time ago. thanks for the info dream. i have a feeling that may be my issue. i checked out the procedure in the FSM. seems like i might as well do a full timing chain job, change the head gasket, and replace all the valve crap in the head. i don't know if that's feasible as a weekend project. i wonder if i should just find myself a low mileage ka24de and drop it in instead. what a headache...

06-05-2005, 08:52 AM	#9
BigVinnie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Walnut Crizzle, Crackifornia Age: 46 Posts: 1,266 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: BigVinnie Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Actually 1995 are OBD2 with a compression of 9.6:1 ment for 91 octane at 20BTDC. If your using 91 at 20btdc that isn't your problem, unless your plugs and wires exceed over 30,000. "Typical situation" If you have what is more of a pinging and rattling that sounds as if it comes from the front of the head that would be the 2 top timing chain guide tensioners. Nissan actually has mandated/recalled that the 2 top tensioners are faulty and can break. This will also mean the addition of a new timing chain, do to the fact nthat the chain can stretch sooner than later from glidding along the cam sprocket teeth. This problem usuall starts to occur in the KA24de at about 60,000 to 100,000 depending on how much high rev abuse the KADE has been through. There is another condition that if it comes from anywhere else in the head you may have what are called floating valves but that sound you usually can't hear until about 3000RPM......

06-05-2005, 02:09 PM	#10
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	yeah dream, i'm looking to pick up a low mileage ka24 and drop it in. everyone tells me its a helluva lot easier then trying to rebuild the head in 2 days. timing chain job isn't a bad idea either, but i think i'm just going to do a swap. i'll do the timing chain job on the 'new' motor instead. sourcing one out should be pretty quick. i have to do a clutch job anyway, so the timing is actually pretty good. in the meantime, i'm just going to pop off the front cover and see if it's the upper and lower tensioners. i'm thinking they might be partially frozen with gunk. thanks for the suggestions bigvinnie. actually 1995 240sx's are split between OBDI and OBDII, depending on the date of manufacture. i already removed the timing chain guides a long time ago. i set my timing myself as well. timing chain tensioners? i think you mean timing chain guides. the timing chain tensioners don't really break oh a dohc motor. they just get clogged up with gunk and stop fucntioning, resulting in a slack chain.

06-05-2005, 07:39 PM	#11
supracrazy Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: SoFlo Posts: 137 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have that same problem but it dosn't happen until the car is under loadand at high rpms. When i just rev it nothing happends It jsut revs how it should, but as soon as I put it in gear it stutters at around 2krpm 3krpm 3.5krpm and when i get to about 5500rpm the engine seems to loose all power and slowly go to 6k then the engine wont rev any higherwhile in that gear. Also it doesnt ideal properly it keeps goin from about 700rpm to 1200rpm over and over. and ocasionally goes lower and then stalls. I changed all my plugs and im not sure it if is a ingition problem ot valve timing problem The car is a Stock 95 with 131 thousand miles. also do yuo think it has somthing to do with the pressuer plate? I got the car when it had 128 thousand and the only probleme then was the ideal but now it is just plain screwed up. Thanks, J.Brown please help me also I dont wanna invest that much in the motor because I will be doing a swap soon, but it is just unbearable to deal with it staling at lights and accelerating all fucked up. Literally the car like jumps forward and backwards when it stutters during the rpms above. and I only use 93 octane

06-05-2005, 11:37 PM	#12
nistech Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CAli Age: 41 Posts: 746 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	try using 87 see what happens it is most likely detonation cuz u use high octane gas

06-05-2005, 11:38 PM	#13
nistech Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CAli Age: 41 Posts: 746 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	why would u use 93 if the car is stock...

06-06-2005, 01:30 PM	#17
BigVinnie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Walnut Crizzle, Crackifornia Age: 46 Posts: 1,266 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: BigVinnie Feedback Score: 0 reviews	[QUOTE=aznpoopy] timing chain tensioners? i think you mean timing chain guides. QUOTE] Yeah your right sometimes I get into typing before I am thinking the 2 top guides have a recall.

06-06-2005, 09:22 PM	#19
evanl85 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Va Posts: 182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I believe it is a TSB, not a recall, so no they will not do anything at all for free.