Timing chain rattle, a concern?

[s13pignose]

My ka in my zenki just rolled to 116k like a week ago. For some reason it seems like I hear a very faint rattle sound today. Not like the heat shield makes when hot, and not metallic ping sound. Sound is very quiet but I would describe it as sorta a diesel sound. By that I don't mean my car sounds like a diesel on the outside lol. I popped the hood and put my ear over the valve cover, and thats only way I can describe what I heard. I wish it was someway I could tell if any of the previous owners had the guides removed!

Also whats normal idle like for a auto zenki. My tach stays at like 1k. Weird thing is at idle my steering wheel vibrates some, and also the passenger seat does slightly. When I first start my car up, usually the trim around the center vents will also, but goes away eventually and doesn't do it on later start ups.

Is this just the nature of the ka. I mean I can feel the car shake somewhat when I start up. Wonder if it might be something to do with a mount?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

[MELLO*SOS]

Originally Posted by s13pignose

I wish it was someway I could tell if any of the previous owners had the guides removed!

Remove the plugs/wires/valve cover and look to see if the upper/center guide has been removed. Then shine a flashlight to see if the guide on the driver side has been removed.

Timing chain rattle is extremely common with our cars, just do a few searches here on Zilvia and you'll find all the info you'll need to replace the upper and lower chains, guides and tensioners.

[aznpoopy]

he has pignose in his name and says his car is a zenki...

he probably has a sohc ka. sohc rattle is more serious then dohc rattle and not nearly as simple to fix.

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by mello88

Remove the plugs/wires/valve cover and look to see if the upper/center guide has been removed. Then shine a flashlight to see if the guide on the driver side has been removed.

Timing chain rattle is extremely common with our cars, just do a few searches here on Zilvia and you'll find all the info you'll need to replace the upper and lower chains, guides and tensioners.

He has a zenki (sohc), so there isn't a top guide.

All you have to do is take off the valve cover (dont have to remove anything else). You can *try* to eyeball it and see if the guides are possibly worn down. Also push the chain to see if you have a lot of slack.

[Neejay]

Also, how long has it been idling so high? If it's been for a looong time, then the high idle could cause the mounts to wear down on top of an already old car.

I think ka's are supposed to idle at +/-750

[s13pignose]

Oh man, I'm not sure. Just notice when in park it sounds high and thats what made me notice. I need to see what it idles like in D at a light too.

Yeah I have a zenki, sorry for the name confusion guyz. I once had my heart sat on a pignose, but change of events delt me a zenki. Never looked back

Anyway I popped the hood again, and still same sound. I read on one post louder it is probably the worse it is. I'm not sure how loud it's suppose to be. I called my local nissan-ship and he's suppose to look up the service bulletin and labor rate and give me a call. Trying to get there take on things.

I seem to only hear it really when I have the hood with it down, the only thing that really makes noise I belive comes from the heat shield. I say this cause even with the car off, it makes the same sound.

How loud is it normally guyz. Should it be very noticable inside the car?

Thanks for the help

[s13pignose]

Oh yeah on another note, I know my speedo is off by 3mph. Me and my dad had my car calibrated, because I notice people were passing me alot lol. There seem to be a 3mph diff across the board. Do you think this could have thrown my tach off. The lady said some speedos and odometers are connected, and a wacky speedo can also make the odometer display mileage incorrectly?

Anyway I did some more testing. With the car sitting on the carport I started the car. With me sitting all the way back in the seat with it at a slight lean, the bottom of the needle was exact with the bottom of the 1 mark on the tach. Okay now I shift into D, and it drops to about 500-550. Same in R. Now funy thing is when I put it back in park, it no longer goes all the way to 1, but maybe like 800 or so. WTF?

Oh yeah I was looking at this bracket under the hood like near the bottom of the motor, and I think its a mount, and it has LH on it. I guess for left hand. Anyway its bolt on, not dangling, but there seems to be split. Im gonna get that checked too.

[Neejay]

hmm...ok, what year is your car? (s13 zenki = pignose, so I'll assume you have a s14 zenki (dohc)?

[s13pignose]

Yeah I have a 95 zenki. The s13pignose is just a name I stuck with.

Hey on another note. I was looking at nismo mounts on ebay to get an idea of what mounts look like, and now I'm not even sure thats what that bracket was. All I know is it's right below the exhaust manifold where it bolts to the head. It has LH in it. I rubbed my hands over the edges of the divided parts, but I don't think its a crack. It looks too smooth. Basically what I see when I look at it is a bracket, and then a piece of sharp pointed metal bolted on to the bracket with two bolts. I really wish I had a digi cam

Hey I know the idle is one thing, but say if I do need a new mount (whichever). Will the nismo mounts work on my ka and will the tranny mount work with the auto tranny? I read it's suppose to limit the vibrations, and I would really like that. I figure if I had to get another mount put on, I might aswell get em all done.

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by s13pignose

Yeah I have a 95 zenki. The s13pignose is just a name I stuck with.

Hey I know the idle is one thing, but say if I do need a new mount (whichever). Will the nismo mounts work on my ka and will the tranny mount work with the auto tranny? I read it's suppose to limit the vibrations, and I would really like that. I figure if I had to get another mount put on, I might aswell get em all done.

Not sure about the part you're talking about, but as far as the mounts go: Yes, the Nismo mounts + tranny mount will fit. They're for SOHC and DOHC engines/trannys.

And also, since you have a DOHC engine, do as stated in the first reply and remove that top timing chain guide.

[MELLO*SOS]

Also, on most KA24DE engines just removing the top guide isn't sufficient to stop the timing chain noise. You'll also have to remove the driver's side guide....



The top guide sits directly behind & between the cam gears. Look closely and you'll see the two bolt holes removing it leaves behind. The 2nd guide you can remove is the one on the driver's side (right), just below the exhaust cam sprocket.

The two bolt holes on the left side of the pic are for the tensioner, which you leave alone. I was doing a whole timing chain replacement when taking those pictures.

And here's what your stock (top) guides look like, the ruts are carved by the chain as it makes that noise.

[MELLO*SOS]

And finally...

Here are the stock mounts compared to some great upgrade pieces offered by "drift freq" on here. He also sells them along with the Nismo tranny mount.

[s13pignose]

Kool thanks alot. Yeah it seems like what I saw today is not a motor or tranny mount. See I'm really due for maintenance work sorta. I got almost 2k before I'm due for an oil change but I probably will get that before but not far from. Main thing I want now is trans flush and filter change + new pcv valve. I have no records of the pervious owners changing either. Than after that will come plugs and wires I hope. I can't find magnecors cheap...why so much for dohc wires. I don't understand lol.

On another note I'm jumping topics, but does anyone have a gap that appears b/w the windows and the door when you open them? Mechanic that put my oil sending unit in said it's because I have power windows, but I'm not entirely convinced.

Also you know the hard plastic above the door on the edge of the rood, does anyone think theirs is warp. Mine doesn't sit flush with the roof line. Not leaks, but it lets dirt get trapped in their sometimes and I'm a neat freak when it comes to my car. The molding I'm talking about is like where jdm window visors would sit.

As you can see I got random concerns with my car lol, always something I would like to change it seems.

[aznpoopy]

i'm not sure what you are saying about your windows, but you can adjust them. you have to take off the interior trim. there are some screws that let you align the window.

its normal for that trim to peel away from the roof. i think just about every s14 has that issue. the pieces themselves are pretty expensive, but you can get it from any nissan dealership if you really want to.

[s13pignose]

Ff they don't leak I guess I might leave alone. I talked to a kouki owner and he says he can relate.

[s13pignose]

OH btw when I tryo to get the guides removed which should be taken off on a 95 ka24de? I heard it's one you keep or something.

Also do the chains usually end up having to be replaced...I hope not $

[aznpoopy]

hahah.

when you take off your valve cover and front timing cover, there are only two you can get to.

the lower timing cover (the whole front bottom half of your engine) houses a third timing guide, but you need that one. you'd need to take off all your belts and your crank pulley just to get to it... so yeah. you won't take it off accidentally.

no timing chains usually do not need to be replaced. that's the whole point of a timing chain!

[s13pignose]

Yeah i figure but just wondered since me or whoever would already be working in that area..might aswell check into it. Hopefully no slack.

Hey just wondering why does every one leave the bottom. Not that I'm gonna do it anyway, but just out of curiosity.

Thanks

[aznpoopy]

if you go up to mello88's big ass picture of the block with both front covers removed... the lower chain guide is that big ass metal piece that runs along the chain on the driver side (right side in the picture) of the block.

should be obvious why its necessary!

[s13pignose]

Okay people, seems like its now or never. Its tues now and hopefully thurs, I get some work done on my car. One being pcv, two trans flush, and three hopefully haing the guides removed.

To save any confusion I printed off this for the mechanic:
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerofile/...zerothread.htm

I just printed off the parts that actually show the guides, and also the materials/tool list in the beginning.

So if he follows the orders from it and only removes the two guides like he's suppose to, I shouldn't having any problems? I've been takin it easy on my car somewhat, but once this is over and when I get oil change I'll probably drive harder. So will this affect that later or will I be good?

Thanks

[s13pignose]

Oh yeah I wasn't sure if we could post links to other forums, sorry if I broke any rules