It's official: the U.S.-market GT-R will be a Nissan

[SimpleS14]

hahaha that is true, only time will tell. I know I'm going to look into buying one after a year or two when its released. I just wonder what the ad campaign will look like in North America. Where's the info that this will have 500+ hp? Are you basing it off how many rumor it will perform like the Z-Tune R34 GT-R at a fraction of the cost?

I hope Nissan atleast limits the production numbers coming to the states, rarity adds value IMO if the overall package is good.

[OptionZero]

no official stats

but the new G-series will have a VQ37DE, so we know that displacement figure is already possible and in production future for Nissan

pretty much 99% sure it'll be a VQxxDETT with refined ATTESSA drivetrain

weight will be an issue, the 350Z is already heavy, with turbo AWD it could be 3600lbs...a corvette z06 is at 3100ish lbs and 500hp for $80k

i'd like them to keep it under 3300lbs but no generation of the GTR has been that up to this point, so...not holding my breath

always the outside shot they'll stick a VHxxDE(t/t) v8 in there, i guess

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

no official stats

but the new G-series will have a VQ37DE, so we know that displacement figure is already possible and in production future for Nissan

pretty much 99% sure it'll be a VQxxDETT with refined ATTESSA drivetrain

weight will be an issue, the 350Z is already heavy, with turbo AWD it could be 3600lbs...a corvette z06 is at 3100ish lbs and 500hp for $80k

i'd like them to keep it under 3300lbs but no generation of the GTR has been that up to this point, so...not holding my breath

always the outside shot they'll stick a VHxxDE(t/t) v8 in there, i guess

Sums it up right there. If you followed alot of the press releases and various tidbits they've pretty much commited to a 500+ car.

[Advan]

If they did bring it over, they'd have to bring a small amount to see how good it does. Otherwise, I see this somewhat being a failure. Like that one perosn said, most people know about the GT-R from GT. As far as selling goes, I hope the price is high, cause the last thing I wanna see is a whole bunch Skylines on the road like Civics/Integras/Accords/Preludes are now. It's always good to see that only one person in in my area of Orlando drives a white R33 Skyline.

Edit: Everytime I see your sig: exitspeed, I keep thinking you're blowing a trumpet(sp), because of the shades.

[koukidough]

Regardless of what badge it is the GT-R is going to sell like hot cakes. I wouldn't be surprised if they had waiting lists. As mentioned earlier, anyone who is spending 50k are most likely doing research. To tell you the truth peeps spending even 5k on a car do research.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Advan

If they did bring it over, they'd have to bring a small amount to see how good it does. Otherwise, I see this somewhat being a failure. Like that one perosn said, most people know about the GT-R from GT. As far as selling goes, I hope the price is high, cause the last thing I wanna see is a whole bunch Skylines on the road like Civics/Integras/Accords/Preludes are now. It's always good to see that only one person in in my area of Orlando drives a white R33 Skyline.

Edit: Everytime I see your sig: exitspeed, I keep thinking you're blowing a trumpet(sp), because of the shades.

I wouldn't be suprised if you do see alot actually. I actually thought I wouldn't see that many STi's/Evo's and I see tons every day.

There's a good example there guys. Not a $60k car but a car that is pretty pricey and look how well they are selling. And there is no heritage for those cars here. I would expect that same buyer to be the ones buying the new GTR.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by m072514

exactly... besides, the name is less of an issue than saleability. only the gran turismo generation knows what the hell a silvia, fairlady, or skyline is. the people who play gran turismo USUALLY dont have the kind of cheddar to be buying a GT-R... i think its a good idea from a PERFORMANCE perspective to name it nissan, but bad business-wise.

either way, i hope it will be badass.

Hahaha, excuse me? Long before Gran Turismo came out there was the 240z and the whole Z car line and heritage and guess what? Those people heard about the Skyline and the GTR reiteration. Do not fool yourself with the idea that the video game generation is the only generation that would know, people in the automotive community young and old know exactly what the hell a Nissan GTR is.
On to the arguement about people willing to plunk down 60k at a Nissan dealership. Things have changed people. Chalk it up to the Titan and the Armada coming in at the 40-50k range and people buying them Nissan will have no problems putting a 60k car on the showroom floor and getting interested parties.
Times have changed folks and there are a lot of well off disposable income people right now that will pay. Plus do not expect the GTR to be a high volume deal. They will probably only make 10-20k of them in the first year at most.

[floodshark]

Not to mention I'm sure there will be a vicious marketing campaign, also I wouldnt be surprised that although badged as a Nissan these things show up on Infiniti dealer lots as well.

[snatch13]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Hahaha, excuse me? Long before Gran Turismo came out there was the 240z and the whole Z car line and heritage and guess what? Those people heard about the Skyline and the GTR reiteration. Do not fool yourself with the idea that the video game generation is the only generation that would know, people in the automotive community young and old know exactly what the hell a Nissan GTR is.
On to the arguement about people willing to plunk down 60k at a Nissan dealership. Things have changed people. Chalk it up to the Titan and the Armada coming in at the 40-50k range and people buying them Nissan will have no problems putting a 60k car on the showroom floor and getting interested parties.
Times have changed folks and there are a lot of well off disposable income people right now that will pay. Plus do not expect the GTR to be a high volume deal. They will probably only make 10-20k of them in the first year at most.

Exactly... 40-50k isn't as much as it used to be. I thought this car was going to be in the neighborhood of 80-100k?

[OptionZero]

No exact pricing has been announced

drift freaq:
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/otf0999.html
http://www.automotivearticles.com/12..._Stumble.shtml

Are the Titan/Armada sales leaders in their class?
if the answer is no, then you can't use it as a reason to support the theory that people will buy expensive nissans

again, Infiniti exists for a reason- it was created cuz NISSAN thought they couldn't sell 60k+ nissans

Now of course the test will be time and actual sales, and if we hear about people bitching about nissan dealerships

Infiniti needs a halo car more than Nissan needs a halo car. Nissan USA already has their top of the line 350Z which is gonna get updated pretty soon. What better way to pump up the Infiniti brand than with a GTR to crown the lineup? fuck the kids and fans who think it "has" to be a nissan.

[Advan]

Speaking of Halo car, does Infiniti even have a some what decent, half Halo car? You do have a point about the Sti's and Evo's, exitspeed. I just have that bad feeling about it coming here.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Are the Titan/Armada sales leaders in their class?
if the answer is no, then you can't use it as a reason to support the theory that people will buy expensive nissans.

OptionZero, I really don't see how you can be using this as an arguement to not badge the GTR as a Nissan. The market buying trucks in that class in the US are much more dyed-in-the-wool american brand loyal customers than the sports car market. Of course there are going to be more good-ol' boys buying fords and chevys than Nissans. Does this mean that everyone wants an american brand truck? of course not! Do people still buy the Titan and Armada? Yes. Just because a vehicle isn't a sales leader in it's class doesn't mean that it can't meet sales goals set by the manufacturer.

Mitsubishi and Subaru have proven that a healthy enthusiest market exists in the US. When the Evo came to the US there were naysayers ridiculing the fact that anyone would pay $30k for a Mitsubishi Lancer. This is amusing now, because according to the automotive press, the Evo is the only car that Mitsubishi is able to sell everyone it makes. You may be underestimating the market for the GTR. The Evo had relatively the same exposure to the market as the GTR has, which is to say exposure through videogames, videos, and magazines. Even without a dedicated marketing campaign, the Evo has managed to do very well. The same buyers who have purchased Evos and STi's have now come farther along in their careers, and most will probably have more disposable income to spend on the GTR. This healthy market should be large enough to support the GTR on it's own, without Nissan having to rely mostly on "image" sales, where people are buying the car to just look good (Percentage of automatic Corvettes sold, people?)
Infiniti relys more on an image/luxury market, and the GTR would be ill-suited to exist mainly as an image car, which it would have to partially become, simply for the fact that the edginess of it's performance would be comprimised to fit into the image that Infiniti would want a luxury sports car in their line to posess.
You have to realize that the playstation market/fanboys aren't going to be kids their whole lives, and that this market includes people well into their thirties at this point.

[exitspeed]

^
Damn, well said. That sums up pretty much what I was thinking.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by impactred

OptionZero, I really don't see how you can be using this as an arguement to not badge the GTR as a Nissan. The market buying trucks in that class in the US are much more dyed-in-the-wool american brand loyal customers than the sports car market. Of course there are going to be more good-ol' boys buying fords and chevys than Nissans. Does this mean that everyone wants an american brand truck? of course not! Do people still buy the Titan and Armada? Yes. Just because a vehicle isn't a sales leader in it's class doesn't mean that it can't meet sales goals set by the manufacturer.

Mitsubishi and Subaru have proven that a healthy enthusiest market exists in the US. When the Evo came to the US there were naysayers ridiculing the fact that anyone would pay $30k for a Mitsubishi Lancer. This is amusing now, because according to the automotive press, the Evo is the only car that Mitsubishi is able to sell everyone it makes. You may be underestimating the market for the GTR. The Evo had relatively the same exposure to the market as the GTR has, which is to say exposure through videogames, videos, and magazines. Even without a dedicated marketing campaign, the Evo has managed to do very well. The same buyers who have purchased Evos and STi's have now come farther along in their careers, and most will probably have more disposable income to spend on the GTR. This healthy market should be large enough to support the GTR on it's own, without Nissan having to rely mostly on "image" sales, where people are buying the car to just look good (Percentage of automatic Corvettes sold, people?)
Infiniti relys more on an image/luxury market, and the GTR would be ill-suited to exist mainly as an image car, which it would have to partially become, simply for the fact that the edginess of it's performance would be comprimised to fit into the image that Infiniti would want a luxury sports car in their line to posess.
You have to realize that the playstation market/fanboys aren't going to be kids their whole lives, and that this market includes people well into their thirties at this point.

well said and a good follow up , I have nothing to add.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by impactred

OptionZero, I really don't see how you can be using this as an arguement to not badge the GTR as a Nissan. The market buying trucks in that class in the US are much more dyed-in-the-wool american brand loyal customers than the sports car market. Of course there are going to be more good-ol' boys buying fords and chevys than Nissans. Does this mean that everyone wants an american brand truck? of course not! Do people still buy the Titan and Armada? Yes. Just because a vehicle isn't a sales leader in it's class doesn't mean that it can't meet sales goals set by the manufacturer.

Mitsubishi and Subaru have proven that a healthy enthusiest market exists in the US. When the Evo came to the US there were naysayers ridiculing the fact that anyone would pay $30k for a Mitsubishi Lancer. This is amusing now, because according to the automotive press, the Evo is the only car that Mitsubishi is able to sell everyone it makes. You may be underestimating the market for the GTR. The Evo had relatively the same exposure to the market as the GTR has, which is to say exposure through videogames, videos, and magazines. Even without a dedicated marketing campaign, the Evo has managed to do very well. The same buyers who have purchased Evos and STi's have now come farther along in their careers, and most will probably have more disposable income to spend on the GTR. This healthy market should be large enough to support the GTR on it's own, without Nissan having to rely mostly on "image" sales, where people are buying the car to just look good (Percentage of automatic Corvettes sold, people?)
Infiniti relys more on an image/luxury market, and the GTR would be ill-suited to exist mainly as an image car, which it would have to partially become, simply for the fact that the edginess of it's performance would be comprimised to fit into the image that Infiniti would want a luxury sports car in their line to posess.
You have to realize that the playstation market/fanboys aren't going to be kids their whole lives, and that this market includes people well into their thirties at this point.

Titan/Armada sales were brought up as an argument supporting Dfreaq's assertion that people will buy a 40-50k Nissan-badged vehicle.
The Titan and Armada haven't grabbed huge market share, and aren't market leaders at all.
What were nissan's sales targets for those trucks? Anyone got a link to that?

The GT-R's performance target is the Porsche 911, it's target market will be the 60-80k sports car (not sports tourer) market. It's competitors will be the Z06, 911 Carrera/Cayman, possibly the 6-series/M6, and a few m3 stragglers
In that market image DOES matter, as does branding, dealership experience, and perceived value. The people that buy 60-90 are not the same people that buy Evo's and STi.s

What is Mitsubishi's lineup outside of the EVO? NOTHING. They are bankrupt and losing money. The Evolution is successfull in the United States DESPITE its badge, and SOLELY because of the Enthusiast market. Subaru's different, they have improved their image by building their reputation for safety and reliability, the STi benefits from this reputation as the "softer" alternative to the EVO, as wella s the good will from the Legacy/outback/Baja/etc.

Nissan's GT-R will not survive on just the Enthusiast market (the ones who place the biggest premium on the GTR name). There are enough enthusiasts these days who can buy a 30k car that the EVO and STi can exist- do you honestly think there are enough enthusiasts out there who can afford a 60-80k car? The playstation generation may have grown up, but they've grown up to be 20-30 yr olds with decent/good first jobs...and with those paychecks they buy S2000s, EVOs, STis, and 350Z's. They do not have the capacity to buy 60-80k sports cars (otherwise they would already have 911's...).

So there are two angles I see it:
-Car freaks who know about the GTR name and reputation and care about performance: can't afford 60-90k car yet, so making it a Nissan to attract them doesn't help

-Rich people who want a sports car for pride/midlife crisis: want image/halo aspect, want good dealer experience, can afford Porsche/BMW/Corvette, so you'd need the Infiniti brand to ensure the class of service they expect, the perceived value they want


Ideal "Nissan GTR" buyer:
Young enough to play GT1-2-3-4, watched Initial D, Best Motoring, Option, reads Super Street so knows the heritage and pride of name, has 60-80k disposable income.

Who fits that mold? A coupla guys who own enough Tap Ex franchises to make it? Maybe some tech industry wiz kids?

The STi/EVO do not sell because of their rep. They sell because they are performance bargains and have NO COMPETITION AT ALL. Subaru/Mitsubishi have effectively CREATED a market here: 4 dr AWD, performance car at 30k.

Until official specs/pricing come out, no one can comment definitively, but to be a successful Nissan GT-R, nissan will have to: shed any concerns about interior quality/build reliability in their other cars and lineup, make the car BEAT the new 911 Carrera in performance, beat the Z06 in perceived build quality, and undercut the pricing on both. that's an uphill battle


Here's another aspect:
The maxima, altima, quest, sentra are all butt-ugly. Does Nissan want the GT-R on the same lot as those lumps of car? it hurts my eyes to drive by a Nissan dealership these days.

The G-series oozes sex. I'd prefer to shop at a dealership that has those parked outside.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Here's another aspect:
The maxima, altima, quest, sentra are all butt-ugly.

I could side with some of your points....but man..the new Altima is nice IMO.

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/8...awp08008qi.jpg

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2...awp68009ou.jpg

[Advan]

Why do we even need GPS/Navigational Systems? I don't know if I could trust one of those things. Something could happen, and next thing you know, you find yourself in the boonies of another state.

[slider2828]

Wow come on guys... The engine will be a FZ37DETT close to 450 horsepower... Pretty final about that. Almost the same as the G37, M37, and probably the 370z. Variable cam, lift, and ignition timing. 4Wheel drive and updated atessa(sp?) steering system. Head will be different compared to the other nissan models, but block is about the same really unknown at this point. All engines that nissan will come out with now after the 2007 models will be FZ blocks, no more VQ's..... Japanese magazine sourced during Tokyo Auto Salon 06 in Jan....

[atom]

Originally Posted by impactred

Mitsubishi and Subaru have proven that a healthy enthusiest market exists in the US. When the Evo came to the US there were naysayers ridiculing the fact that anyone would pay $30k for a Mitsubishi Lancer. This is amusing now, because according to the automotive press, the Evo is the only car that Mitsubishi is able to sell everyone it makes. You may be underestimating the market for the GTR. The Evo had relatively the same exposure to the market as the GTR has, which is to say exposure through videogames, videos, and magazines. Even without a dedicated marketing campaign, the Evo has managed to do very well. The same buyers who have purchased Evos and STi's have now come farther along in their careers, and most will probably have more disposable income to spend on the GTR. This healthy market should be large enough to support the GTR on it's own, without Nissan having to rely mostly on "image" sales, where people are buying the car to just look good (Percentage of automatic Corvettes sold, people?)
Infiniti relys more on an image/luxury market, and the GTR would be ill-suited to exist mainly as an image car, which it would have to partially become, simply for the fact that the edginess of it's performance would be comprimised to fit into the image that Infiniti would want a luxury sports car in their line to posess.
You have to realize that the playstation market/fanboys aren't going to be kids their whole lives, and that this market includes people well into their thirties at this point.

If you are trying to cater to an enthusiast market, then it won't matter what brand it is. An enthusiast will buy the GTR whether it's a Nissan, Infiniti, or Prince. So what are the pluses and minuses of naming it a Nissan vs. Infiniti for the rest of the people, meaning the more casual sports car buyers? To me the pluses favor naming it an Infiniti. Cover all your bases.

As far as image/luxury, just look at Honda. They've had the RSX, TSX, and NSX on the Acura line and they were barely changed from the foreign counterparts. The NSX is the perfect example. Hop on over to NSXprime and see how many people there actually appreciate the Acura service and consider it a nice thing to have. It's quite a few.

Lastly, it's a given whether it's a Nissan or Infiniti it will be marketed as an upscale sports car.

[exitspeed]

The one thing I would like to add to this (dont have much time) is think of this, OptionZero. If Honda, HONDA, can build the truck of the year in the AMERICAN market. Nissan can build a Z06 fighter.

Honda has shown us that with great design and giving a buyer what they want anything is possible.

[OptionZero]

Nissan is not Honda.

Nissan is still up and coming trying to rebuild their brand.
Honda, as far as I know, has never been in trouble.

Honda has more goodwill credbility with the American public than Nissan, at least IMHO recent times.

For Honda, the badge is an advantage in anything they make.
I am not prepared to believe that is the case for Nissan.


More on Nissan v Infiniti
Case in point (take it as you will)
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....r&story=csrCsi

Infiniti is 5th best in dealer customer service
Nissan is 30th or so

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....=&aff=national
Infiniti trounces nissan in sales satisfaction

oddly, Nissan beats Infiniti in "customer retention"

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/nissan.html
"We used to say that we get relatively few complaints about Nissan. We no longer say that. But what's still true is that the complaints we receive are unanimous in their view that Nissan USA runs a disgraceful consumer service operation. The company also has a poor record of dealing with air bag injuries suffered by its customers. And don't even ask how their leasing divison treats customers at the end of their lease."



I don't think making the car a Nissan gained anything; NOT making it an Infiniti more than likely cost the company something.

[SimpleS14]

This may sound weird....but can't Nissan select which dealers can sell the GT-R?

[ThatGuy]

You guys are doing an excellent job of keeping this discussion civil, but I jave to ask... Has either side changed your minds at all? Both sides are presenting good arguments, but I don't see any ground being gained by either side. Just my own observation. Feel free to carry on the discussion, as long as it remains civil.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

You guys are doing an excellent job of keeping this discussion civil, but I jave to ask... Has either side changed your minds at all? Both sides are presenting good arguments, but I don't see any ground being gained by either side. Just my own observation. Feel free to carry on the discussion, as long as it remains civil.

I don't think so I see were option Zero is coming from. I agree with him on some points but I think the arguement fairs better with other cars in most cases. I think the GTR has somewhat different curcumstances.

Liek I've said numerous times before, only time will tell how the American market will react to this car. You never know. It's a crap shoot with either name on the car.

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

You guys are doing an excellent job of keeping this discussion civil, but I jave to ask... Has either side changed your minds at all? Both sides are presenting good arguments, but I don't see any ground being gained by either side. Just my own observation. Feel free to carry on the discussion, as long as it remains civil.

I agree...this seems to be one of those arguments that certain people will not change their mind on...

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Has either side changed your minds at all?

Not until summer 2008....