STL Riots

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by silviasandbeer

grants?
maybe taxes, id feel great knowing that my tax money would go to this
if we can pay billions for rockets and tanks and the war can we not fund this??

no it wont stop armchair reporters, but thats not the point of the cameras..
its to hold some one accountable in the justice system, not to please some dumbass who complains about the system but does nothing about it



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7XX_jI0PI

watch that... she makes valid points
she also mentions Rilato CA police department and how they have cameras on each officer and police complaints about misconduct have dropped dramatically

Shoot, I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes for cameras. That would stop all these "lack of..." non-sense that myself personally, thinks its entire bullshit at times. I'm not just talking about in this particular situation either. Make it required to wear one for whenever your on duty, doesn't matter if it's a full blown OK Carrol shootout or a giving a ticket because the parking meter expired. Lack of evidence, lack of accountability, lack of witnesses, lack of "clear video angles" etc. etc. etc. just makes things extremely complicated and I'm sure make things much harder for investigators. Having these cams, would give us first hand into the view of the officer and whatever the opposing force is. I believe it would give a personal account of how the officer was thinking, the way he/she acted and why he/she acted in the manner he/she does. You'll be able to evaluate the threat level of the task, answer "was the officer actions necessary for the given conflict" and kill off a lot of the hearsay like in this incident we have here and in many others to come.

Originally Posted by silviasandbeer

and i wouldnt dismiss the race/class issue as "bitching"

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level. But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely wrecked. But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by HORShi

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

I strongly concur. It started with the baby boomers and has progressively gotten worse and worse with every generation. We have become perfectly fine with being sub-par, this issue is what haunts us.

When I see these cases like Brown, Martin, etc. It discourages me. Instead of the media building up racial tensions, why don't we focus on parenting our youth to make wise choices and take the high road. Teach the respect and how to avoid problematic situations rather than MAKE problematic situations.

I don't know where the circle ends and begins anymore, personally I think our nation is beyond the point of no return. We are no longer the power we once were. We continue to plummet in education statistics, grow debt, and fill jails. We are so concerned with what's happening with the Kardashians that we can't even show up to vote for the leader of our country (or well, statistically speaking anyway).

This kind of stuff is an embarrassment.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by HORShi

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

Awesome Source Material.

Originally Posted by HORShi

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system.

Yes, because we are totally comparable. You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.

Originally Posted by HORShi

A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

Rhetoric.

First, variation in law is great. It's part of states rights. Don't like it, vote or move. This country is far to big, far to diverse to have one central government making all the laws. That's tyranny of the majority. Why should I in podunk Midwest, who is outnumbered by California, be forced to accept what laws they want?

As far as nonviolent vs violent - please post up some statistics to back up your claim.

Our criminal system is not about rehabilitation. End of Story.

Our Society is not about rehabilitation. Ever apply for a job? Ever been asked if you are a convicted felon? Can't get a job - just go back to stealing.

What "to much" power are police given?

Originally Posted by HORShi

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas

The two parties are closer align then you realize. You are just getting lost in rhetoric.

Originally Posted by HORShi

and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level.

Good for you.

Originally Posted by HORShi

But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

Maybe we should start with the people. How many drug gangs does Japan have? Active serial killers? How many men beat and murder their wives? Kidnap and rape girls? How many guys set off bombs in front of buildings? How many Japanese police officers are killed each year?

How many illegal aliens are in Japan? How many guns? How many minorities? How many people live below the poverty line?

Originally Posted by HORShi

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

Or else what? You still haven't stated how the system is broken. Just rhetoric. Yes, the US is not other countries. We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't trade one aspect for another.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Corbic

You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.

We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".

These three statements are completely false, unfortunately.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Matej

These three statements are completely false, unfortunately.

Proof???

Didn't think so

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Proof???

What, you want a plane ticket or something?

Western, Southern, and Northern Europe is full of Muslims and Africans. At many of the airports you will hardly see a white person. England and France are the third and fourth most Islamic countries in the world. Basically, their legal system defends the beliefs held by the Muslim religions much more strictly than the countries in the Middle East.
Italy is accepting African immigrants by the boatload every day. Southern Italy may as well be a part of Africa now as far as their ethnic demographic goes.
Sweden jails native Swedes just for speaking out against minorities or religions on the internet. There are mosques all over Switzerland and Austria. Muslim groups are demanding that waitresses cover up their elbows. They want their own swimming pools and lunch rooms at workplaces because everyone else is apparently filthy, and they are actually getting them.

I am not sure where you have been getting your world news these past couple of decades.