vq swaps any easier now a days?

[rb25crazy]

was wondering if vq swaps are getting any easier now a days. figured it might be after several years and people dropping it into cars.

namely for the 240 was wondering if there are any places that sell drop in stuff like sikky does for the ls1.

[Nintensity]

I would like to know this as well.. i'm leaning towards getting a VQ sometime in the future in my s14...

[srstan]

come on guys....its called google.

VQ-240sx swap Products McKinney Motorsports

[rb25crazy]

yeah, i've seen mckinney stuff... but the website can't spell... and is horribly put together... that just makes me wonder.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by rb25crazy

yeah, i've seen mckinney stuff... but the website can't spell... and is horribly put together... that just makes me wonder.

yeah I've thought the same thing myself
I haven't seen any swaps with their stuff either, its all custom as far as I've seen

[turtle m3th]

I am more so curious about the wiring of this swap myself. I understand that there are mounting solutions, and wiring solutions as well, but a nice collection of resources would be great. Kind of like what they've got in the tech section for certain swaps.

[JKL1031]

Yea, I thought about a VQ in mines as well. neighboors seem to have a G35 that they've wrecked, and its just parked.

[s13 @ fullboost]

My buddy told me it was a bitch he has one In his car " its not so much hard as it is time consuming"

[K_style]

Originally Posted by JKL1031

Yea, I thought about a VQ in mines as well. neighboors seem to have a G35 that they've wrecked, and its just parked.

Should stop what >?

[KansaiDrifter]

I love mine, I daily drive it and drift the stuffing out of it. It's a underrated engine in my book. Turbocharged there is a ton of potential. ~450rwhp @ ~12psi (big single), on a de engine. The HR engines run 300rwhp stock with catback and intake. My only thing is that I'm going to try and find the longer gear for my diff, the 4.1/4.3 are a bit short. The 4.3 is so short that I start in 2nd and 6th is like 5th in a s chassis. I've got a build thread in the chat section. Zfever can make the harness and ecu literally plug and play though and still drive by wire. I'm saving right now to hopefully go turbo with pistons/rods and studs for next season hehehehe.

[punxva]

i mean my roommate just swapped one into his 86, with a z fever harness it was a breeze, then again we made everything for it, but if your not good at making stuff then try buying one of the kits.

[towlie]

I'd say with the amount of information now available and the kits, yes it is easy(er)

[rb25crazy]

well, i'm talking more like sikky easy haha, where everything is neat and looks prof. maybe another year or two heh before that ever happens.

[drift freaq]

the problem has been that no one has shown much interest in any large amounts to warrant making a install kit. I was originally going to do it. Though while I was formulating the stuff to do it I watched others try and make kits and market them. None of them sold. McKinney has a kit because McKinney is specifically in the engine swap kit business already.
It allowed them to defray potential costs and migrate some of their swap idea's directly over to their VQ kit.
I am not extremely impressed with their kit. Of course I have never been impressed with any of their kits.
They only got a decent RB market because their were the first to market, not the best.

That aside I will impart some knowledge here. I originally was going to just drop an ordinary VQ into my car. I then decided to go with the HR because cause it was 80% different than previous VQ's and was vastly superior. It is also over an Inch taller. LOL

If you want to put an HR in your car then you will have to modify your front crossmember so you can get it low enough to clear your hood. Now this will not hang your pan to low.

If you want to install a DE or RevUp then you can do it with no crossmember modification. Your hood will close.

Now honestly its cool to finally see more interest. Though truthfully the 240 community has gotten so cheap these days that I do not see any possibility of doing a kit. As it wouldf most likely be a losing proposition financially.

In my opinion, most of the companies making LSX install kits would not bother on a VQ. Most of them feel that LSX has inherent superiority. I will not get into that. It is a good engine and I will leave it at that.

Z fever is not the only place for wiring, Lots of places can do a Osiris ECU flash which eliminate the needs for using the BCM and other stuff that previously made the wiring hard.

Indeed with a ecu flash the wiring is pretty much very close to wiring a SR.

A few of us here in California are working towards doing the swap in a Carb referee legal setup.

I do think they are good engines but unless you are trying to go smog legal in your car, there are lots of other swaps.
In other words at least in California if your going to do the swap it would be because you want to be smog legal with 300HP.
The only other engine that falls into that catagory is the LS1 but again not many people have even attempted to make their LS1 swaps legal.

To me that is the whole point of doing the VQ swap. Smog legal with HP. There for swaps done in Florida mean nothing because they do not have smog laws anyways. HAHAHAHA

I will say I will have a set of engine mounts for the install. As I did them for the sake of my own swap. Though I am still messing around with positioning at this point.

[rb25crazy]

yup carb smog legal is what im talking bout. i just want something that i can leave stock, but with a lot more power. the vq fits the bill. the ls swap is cool and all but i hear it's hard to get it carb legal so. plus, i think vq's are cheaper then the ls swap since those t56 transmissionscan go for quite a bit jesus. and i guess i'm just a little bit of a fanboy, hehe.

do you think you will make some kits possibly? since you are making one for yourself anyway? or is it just a no go all around, just wondering.

i think the main problem with the previous vq swap kits etc... were that they were never complete and always had a bunch of loose ends. i believe if there is a 100% solution available it would fair a lot better, just my 2 cents. that's what had me on the fence personally, since i am not the most mechanically inclined person in the world.

[upsdude]

what's the cost total for a vq or HR swap? i mean if the costs are similar to an ls swap i'd go with the v8-but that's just me.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by upsdude

what's the cost total for a vq or HR swap? i mean if the costs are similar to an ls swap i'd go with the v8-but that's just me.

This is a good question. I will try and break it down.

cost of a DE engine and trans setup these days is around 1k maybe less. I have seen some amazing prices

Cost of HR engine and trans setup is definitely higher. Best deal would be around $1500 average is in the 2-3k range.


cost of ECU flash for either engine setup is the same. $350-450.

Cost of wiring for standard wiring i.e. non mil spec is around $300-375.

If you are going to do a HR then you are looking at spending money for a crossmember mod.

If you are going with a DE no extra cash here

no matter what engine you put in you will buy an aluminum radiator so that is a non issue.

doing your exhaust up is another issue that will happen with both swaps so it does not matter in this breakdown.

Now on the mount front most people will try and use the stock engine mounts. I prefer going with mine for two reasons 1. they are 80 durometer and will hold up better. 2. they will drop the engine a bit lower than stock mounts.

my mounts will be $120 if for some crazy reason I do a kit I may not sell the mounts separately. lol

No there are only a couple of things left to deal with the smog legal part and it has to do with our cars being fuel return evap setups and 350Z's being non fuel return evap setups.
This is something we are actually totally working on currently concept wise.
Get all this stuff sorted and then you are talking about taking the car to the ref and getting him to sign off on the swap. If he does you get a sticker and then you smog the car like you would have smogged a 350.

This is the part that can be tricky but the thing is its just as tricky with the LSx swaps. Its entirely up to the ref and some refs are asswipe's that cannot see beyond their own noses. Done right either swap (VQ or LSX) there should be no problem. Again it all depends on particular ref you decided to go to.

I will add no one as of yet has actually ref'd a LSX swap that I know of. They have stock header cat fitment issues that are worse than the VQ's. Which makes most people opt for non legal aftermarket headers.

so quick recap on pricing

DE engine trans setup cost under 1k( if you are lucky ) otherwise $1k-1500
ecu flash 375-450
wiring 375

misc another 1k

HR engine trans setup costs $1500( if you are lucky) -3k
ecu flash 375-450
wiring 375

misc another $1500 at least.

so seriously unless you get a hookup on a LSX swap you are sitting in HR expense range.

Or if you want a CARB legal GM E rod kit 7k.

I think that some people want to stick with NIssan in a Nissan for purist reason. At the same time, I can tell you If I got a LSX for the right price, even I would consider that route.

[rb25crazy]

haha yeah i just checked craigs... de motors/trans are sub 1,000 or tipping over 1,000 by a little bit. that would be an amazing swap imo. well, i see ls1's still go for around 1000+ and no transmissions most of the time. i think the DE is a cheaper swap imo. i mean.... if you want it street legal 280hp is plenty imo haha.... its not like you can floor it all day in traffic anyway. that's just me. plus, i think if the motor ever blows it's cheaper to just find another de anyway for the most part. since everyone likes their ls1 ^_^. just a nice cheaper alternative with a little lesser power.

the hr swap is cool too, but cheaper is better, i dont really need all that extra power hah. even with my stock ka i feel like it's "enough" power i never really feel the need for extra since i just daily my car anyway. but, again that's just me... i'm probably a super noob.

what i really want is the sound haha... the ka sounds like shit. i still like the grunt of the 350z stock so hehe.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by rb25crazy

haha yeah i just checked craigs... de motors/trans are sub 1,000 or tipping over 1,000 by a little bit. that would be an amazing swap imo. well, i see ls1's still go for around 1000+ and no transmissions most of the time. i think the DE is a cheaper swap imo. i mean.... if you want it street legal 280hp is plenty imo haha.... its not like you can floor it all day in traffic anyway. that's just me. plus, i think if the motor ever blows it's cheaper to just find another de anyway for the most part. since everyone likes their ls1 ^_^. just a nice cheaper alternative with a little lesser power.

the hr swap is cool too, but cheaper is better, i dont really need all that extra power hah. even with my stock ka i feel like it's "enough" power i never really feel the need for extra since i just daily my car anyway. but, again that's just me... i'm probably a super noob.

what i really want is the sound haha... the ka sounds like shit. i still like the grunt of the 350z stock so hehe.

Well from a cost perspective a DE swap is definitely cheaper than a LSX swap or a HR swap. The thing is this. Once you do a LSX swap you are looking at making suspension and wheel mods to handle the extra torque. Mind I said torque rather than HP. Many people focus on HP numbers rather than looking at Torque numbers.

Both the DE and HR put out considerable TQ stock. With the right intake(plenum) and exhaust setup even a DE could turn out 300 whp which would easily be up in the upper TQ numbers as well.

People forget that a SR's TQ numbers will never be those of a 6 or 8 no matter the HP. The bigger engines just have more grunt. Oh and that is what gives you the acceleration feel.

The real question comes down to, do you want a easily drivable setup VS something that may take work for it to be drivable.
With a DE or a HR you are already getting into the terribly quick range. Hehehehe

Oh and with the right exhaust setup the engine sounds downright exotic.

[Jukebox]

So are their any known problems in passing smog and ref station for the vq swap as there was for the lsx swap with their header clearance?

Like Drift Freak was saying is that the majority of people doing this swap will be to pass emissions, but if its just as blurry or difficult as the ls swap...it doesn't make sense.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Jukebox

So are their any known problems in passing smog and ref station for the vq swap as there was for the lsx swap with their header clearance?

Like Drift Freak was saying is that the majority of people doing this swap will be to pass emissions, but if its just as blurry or difficult as the ls swap...it doesn't make sense.

The known problems here in California are the refs themeselves. LOL jokes and truthful jokes aside the other thing that has been the big issue is the fuel tank stuff. 350 is returnless with the evap cannister in the back. It also ties in a fuel pressure and or temp from the tank directly to the ecu. This is smog stuff you would not be able to get around so you have to get that sorted. That is what we are working on conceptually right now. My boy thinks he has the work around but we have yet to test it.

As for the exhaust all you need to for the clearance is clock the flange for bolting up your cats so they don't hit and are in the proper place to make a picky ref happy.

Now the thing that has always cracked me up is the guys who do the swap and just go completely non legal. At that point its why bother.

The purpose of the VQ or the LSX swap is to be legal. If you can't do either swap legally, then there is no reason to them. As there are some great illegal Nissan engines you could run with less hassle.

Unless all you are trying to do is be Billy Badass in the 240 world. LOL

[lewisfk]

^^beside the engine, mounts, and trans what drive shaft do u use?

[upsdude]

which engine had the oil consuption issues....the de or hr?

Originally Posted by lewisfk

^^beside the engine, mounts, and trans what drive shaft do u use?

i'd just get a new 1 piece shaft

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I think that some people want to stick with NIssan in a Nissan for purist reason. At the same time, I can tell you If I got a LSX for the right price, even I would consider that route.

a vq or HR swap sounds like an ideal swap for someone who wants a fun to drive daily driver/weekend track car...i've always liked the g35/350z exhaust note. even in stock form it has a nice tone to it.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by upsdude

which engine had the oil consuption issues....the de or hr?


i'd just get a new 1 piece shaft



a vq or HR swap sounds like an ideal swap for someone who wants a fun to drive daily driver/weekend track car...i've always liked the g35/350z exhaust note. even in stock form it has a nice tone to it.

yes on the driveshaft question a one piece is indeed the way to go. In fact you have to. The 350 driveshafts are carbon and they are not the right length for our cars. you just need the input yolk and your rear flange face and just measure out and have it made.

The HR is a VQ if that is what you meant. I think it is an ideal swap for a daily. Not the LSX swap could be a daily. Though you would be treading lightly on the gas pedal. LOL
DE's are not a bad way to go. Sure they are not as insanely awesome as the HR but they are a decent engine.
Look at it as the HR is the more in the vein of an RB26. It was the foundation for the VQ38. The DE was not.
The DE is more like an RB25 in my opinion.

The RevUp was the oil consumption engine and here is the dirty little secret I am about to let out of the bag on it. Hook an oil catch can setup up to a RevUp and it solves the oil consumption issue. This comes straight from tech guys at Nissan.

Now the thing to keep in mind here is the RevUp is rated at 300 HP the HR is rated at 306. Though the HR is 80% different that 80% being a stronger block, longer connecting rods to shorten the stroke which raises the redline 500 rpm.

[Jukebox]

Agreed on the hr being the better engine, but doesn't swapping the hr require you to modify the cross-member because its taller? Where as the de will just drop in?

[donandal]

Hey,
my two cents worth....
We just finished this swap VQ35HR into S13
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/384013-plusoneten-build.html
We did keep EVERY emissions component...
we modified gas tank
we put canister in spare tire area
we kept cat conv., but shortened headers...uh oh
we kept BCM and NATS
we swapped rear differential
we swapped entire wiring harness
etc......
problem areas that would need to be in legal
"KIT" plan for HR motor

front crossmember/engine mounts
starter clearance/Steering rack issue solution
ECU with reflash
Headers
cat converters
gas tank/evap emissions issues
wiring harness
tranny mount
shifter support bracket new/ or shortened with shorter linkage rework
cold air intake (optional?)
rear diff swap info ( more torque, taller gear ratio/limited slip?)
oil pan skid plate (optional?)
drive shaft specs ( one piece) need front [transmision] yoke
template for trimming stock hood braces ( nice option )
A/C line/hook ups (optional?)
power steering lines/hook ups
there is probably something else....

all of these could be either supplied or sourced

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Jukebox

Agreed on the hr being the better engine, but doesn't swapping the hr require you to modify the cross-member because its taller? Where as the de will just drop in?

Pretty much. You still have an angle difference on the mount face which is something I am working on for both engines. Most of the swaps i have seen, people have conquered the angle difference by making the mount face on the crossmember flatter. Or you make an engine bracket to replace the factory one that is re angled. That is what most the V8 kits do.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by donandal

Hey,
my two cents worth....
We just finished this swap VQ35HR into S13
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/384013-plusoneten-build.html
We did keep EVERY emissions component...
we modified gas tank
we put canister in spare tire area
we kept cat conv., but shortened headers...uh oh
we kept BCM and NATS
we swapped rear differential
we swapped entire wiring harness
etc......
problem areas that would need to be in legal
"KIT" plan for HR motor

front crossmember/engine mounts
starter clearance/Steering rack issue solution
ECU with reflash
Headers
cat converters
gas tank/evap emissions issues
wiring harness
tranny mount
shifter support bracket new/ or shortened with shorter linkage rework
cold air intake (optional?)
rear diff swap info ( more torque, taller gear ratio/limited slip?)
oil pan skid plate (optional?)
drive shaft specs ( one piece) need front [transmision] yoke
template for trimming stock hood braces ( nice option )
A/C line/hook ups (optional?)
power steering lines/hook ups
there is probably something else....

all of these could be either supplied or sourced

Ya and while I appreciate the amount of good work that went into your swap. I see no reason for the BCM, Nats, nor swapping in the rear diff. , nor swapping in the complete 350 dash including the body harness. That is an expense most people do not want to do.

Please you guys have a thread and a very good one at that but this thread is talking about it is it worth it and how feasibly economical and easy it is.

A lot of the work you guys did was actually not needed. You can run a ABS diff with a dakota digital converter for your speedo signal. Guys have done it. If you are flashing the ECU you flash the BCM and the NATS out as they have absolutely nothing to do with the emissions.

Nice swap you did, though not something easily done which is the point of this thread.

[donandal]

Your right about some of what we did not being needed...

thats why the things I listed as being needed for the PLAN for a kit
didn't include the BCM or NATS (reflash ECU is listed) etc.

the rear diff was listed as INFO for planning
I don't think you'd stick with a stock rear end

all of the remaining items were INFO, optional,or would need to be
supplied or a source/ parts list could be suggested....
for example the bracket relocating the shifter

the intent was to point out things that needed to be addressed
in an easier way....
VQ swaps any easier now days?

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by donandal

Your right about some of what we did not being needed...

thats why the things I listed as being needed for the PLAN for a kit
didn't include the BCM or NATS (reflash ECU is listed) etc.

the rear diff was listed as INFO for planning
I don't think you'd stick with a stock rear end

all of the remaining items were INFO, optional,or would need to be
supplied or a source/ parts list could be suggested....
for example the bracket relocating the shifter

the intent was to point out things that needed to be addressed
in an easier way....
VQ swaps any easier now days?

yes except stuff you listed was most likely not needed and does not make the swap easier. Actually getting a J30 diff which has the ABS sensor on it is an ideal thing. As it has 3.90 gearing which is the hot setup gear wise in the 350Z world. Though some 350 guys are even running 4.08's which are stock in our cars and there are 4.08 ABS diffs. If you really want to get down to brass tacks of plans for a kit.


It comes down to this.

engine mounts with a bracket of some sort to reangle them.
Shfiter bracket.
transmission mount bracket as the stock or aftermarket mounts can be used. Its been done.
Custom driveshaft which we had already talked about.
possible reclocked exhuast flange setup for clearances.

Though at this point you have entered the realm of an over $500 install kit. Now if people do most of this stuff themselves it would not cost as much.

Though asking people to pony up an extra $500 or more for the kit starts pushing it into the realm of an buying an LSX kit.

If someone sells a basic kit with the engine mounts and brackets and shifter bracket sure.



As for can a R200 diff handle the torque? It is no problem, it is a very stout diff that Nissan used in a lot of Higher HP cars than ours.

Now sure there is the dakota digital converter, and there is the issue of the fuel temp sender which actually can be worked around. Without having to do the extensive gas mods you guys did.

I was going to do a kit originally there was not enough interest. Hence (outside of Mckinney) all other kits that were started have ceased to exist.
Hence it becoming more of a project by project deal at this time.

240 people are not exactly spend happy. They want to do things in the most cost affordable way they can. Sorry but its a fact.

This is just something I have watched come about in the last few years.

Once again I give you props for your swap.