Why is this forum so unfriendly to newbies?

[jesuchristo]

You guys should check out this thread: 90 Hatch build progress...lots of pictures

Why is this kind of behavior acceptable by the moderators? Then the mod closes the thread because why? too many flames? wtf? was any action taken against the flamers like it says in the rules?

Zilvia.net is a business, they are driving away customers by doing this kind of stuff.

A forum is supposed to be alive. This was a very positive and helpful thread and it kept me entertained, there is no reason it should have been closed, I am sad that it was closed, I wanted to give this guy props and ask him questions.

The rule of:
"Please respect others and the community. Not everyone can see eye to eye, although this does not permit you to attack other members. If you have a problem send them an email or PM."

Should be replaced with:
"You are not allowed to post a thread unless the sum of money (in dollars) you spent on the parts to be discussed in the thread + your post count is greater than 15,000. You must expect and accept any harassment by anyone with a post count of greater than 10,000."

This is what the mod said for the last post:
"While I respect your effort and all, this thread is teaching nothing new, no new ground is being broken and most of what you're going to get is flames, as you have likely seen...
If you want to show off pics, then please use the picture thread, if you have some bomb-ass custom work, then make a new thread showing off THAT, but please search to make sure such a thread does not already exist.
I am closing this now."

What constitutes "bomb-ass custom work"? Who is the judge of the "bomb-assness" of this "custom work"? Because the thread was filled with custom work (fitting of panels and suspension parts etc.) Just because he bought the car with the motor already swapped, that wasnt the focus. The focus was the body panels and shocks. To me, there was "bomb-ass custom work" done by him.

You guys need to define your rules a little bit more because now im scared that my work wont be "bomb-ass" enough to post on zilvia. I guess I will have to find another 240 forum that will let me post in it.

thx

-Jon the newbie

[silviaz]

I know what you're talking about. I don't post that much because most of the time they don't care about what u're talking, except if you show 'em some burned rubber or 50k setup.

[unwed_transient]

his work didn't appeal to the right people. therefore the thread was closed.

he really didn't do anything that had not been done before.
plus the work he did do is pretty basic stuff.

i fail to see the major issue here...

[SiI40sx]

Just separate yourself from an ignorant newbie crowd and you'll be ok. Lack of intellect and bad English / grammar is what isn't welcomed in this site. Also don't EVER ask for opinions, this is the worst site to do that in. We have so many different views and opinions on whats "dope" and what's "wack, gay, lame, stupid etc". There's a lot of different crowds in here, you cant expect to please everyone. Its possible but rare.

[Phlip]

The fact, here, is that we do not LIVE at our computers, nor do we even for a second look at EVERY thread...
Honestly, I have not opened the "Motorsports" section for any reason since May, to be dead ass honest with you. I closed that thread after YOU, who started THIS thread, complained 2 times about the thread.
After reading the thread, the fact remained that it was locked for the reason I named in the post with which I locked the thread. Please do not remove yourself from the equation, but when I get 2 emails in 8 minutes or less about ONE thread, then I have no reason to believe ANYTHING other than the fact that the thread is a problem... If, after reading the thread in question, I find that nothing is exactly redeeming of the thread, then I close it.


Would you rather I deleted the thread, since you were the ONLY one who spoke to any problem with the thread?

[jesuchristo]

Why dont you just delete offending posts and call it a day?

[jesuchristo]

I felt the thread was redeeming. What harm would the thread have cause if it had stayed up? There were tons of people giving him props and encouraging him to do more work, now that opportunity is ruined because of a few rotten apples? Doesn't make much sense.

My whole point is, a forum kind of regulates itself. If a thread sucks it will roll off the back page and never be seen again. If it's good people will post in it and it will stay on top. Either way, the thread was relatively on topic and pretty damn helpful from my point of view.

[Phlip]

Because I have a life, job and family, as does EVERY other member of the moderation team.
I delete a thread in violation, I MUST PM that member to keep them from restarting the same thing. Instead, I speak directly to my issue as I lock it, and now I must explain my reasoning for it to YOU, who saw fit to report the SAME thread twice?
What was your issue with it that I am now the villain for closing it?

[jesuchristo]

I dont think you are a villain, just that the situation could have been handled differently.

My first issue with the thread is that there were people unnecessarily harassing the poster of the thread. That is why I reported the 2 posts. The 2 posts were as followed.

"That car looks terrible.
Paint should have been before the kouki lights
Stock suspension/ stock diff with all the motor work? Pointless."

And:
"new pics
u dont derserve a thread imo

its nothing fancy. nothing crazy. i didnt laern or see anything cool
looks like any other turn key sr powered car kids buy these days

u should paint ur car
before kouki lamps.


and what is with that stupid metal thing? is that your 'fan shroud??

get rid of it. looks horrendously terrible."

It is no punishment to the posters of the flames when the thread is closed. Their malicious posts are still allowed to be viewed for as long as the rest of the useful posts.

My second issue with the thread is that it was closed while still being able to provide useful information and discussion to the community. This was unfair to the original poster of the thread, if it was me I'd be pretty pissed but he really did nothing wrong. How is he supposed to know not to post "non bomb-ass custom work" on zilvia? Its not stated in the rules anywhere.

Also, I hit the "report post" button twice because there were 2 seperate posts to report. I am sorry if this causes you inconvenience, maybe you should ask for more compensation for the job? :P

An effective moderator in my eyes would have PM'd those 2 offending posters and deleted their posts as it was necessary to do. There was another post in the thread in which the member is now placed on probation. Obviously you guys do this kind of thing for bad behavior, this is bad enough to close SOMEONE ELSES thread for but not bad enough to take any action against any poster?

[ALTRNTV]

Newbies? Go to NICO.

[Tenchuu]

ya hit sometimes, you miss sometimes, there is a huge library of info here, and the mods try to keep duplication to a minimum. altho lately there has seem to been allot of build up threads.

maby there should be a builds forum for people who want to post progress of their builds, but i see how that may detract from write ups on how to do individual things.

[C. Senor]

phlip i vote lock this thread.......boo hoo.....you got an issue....here's a tissue*grabs a kleenex and hands it over*. lol. seriously though i think the point of the thread being locked is that it is a pretty average build. although the car looks decent, it's still the same 240 i see all the time. can you imagine if everyone opened a thread about how their build was going. shit my thread would be the best ever with my stock single cam power....imagine that. if you think people need a pat on the back for building a car they are building for themselves then you and that person, if they really need it, are in the wrong hobby. this site is all about tough love, so get used to it. there is a picture thread, he should have posted in there with a brief description of what he did. he would have gotten props there too. everyone has diffirent opinions...being that you remember this is a public forum dont forget that public means that every one has a right to say what they want good or bad. no one called him a name or threatened him so there so no "trouble posts." so get over that. lastly this forum helps you understand that you are you're own person. if you can't take jokes and criticisms then you have some serious looking inside of yourself you need to do. if you need to be spoon fed, this is the wrong site, and if you feel that everyone needs a pat on the back then you need to go teach kindergarten where a pat on the back for everything that was made an effort.

i feel like writing today for some reason...any ways....boo hoo thread got locked get over it.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

You guys should check out this thread: 90 Hatch build progress...lots of pictures

Why is this kind of behavior acceptable by the moderators? Then the mod closes the thread because why? too many flames? wtf? was any action taken against the flamers like it says in the rules?

Zilvia.net is a business, they are driving away customers by doing this kind of stuff.

A forum is supposed to be alive. This was a very positive and helpful thread and it kept me entertained, there is no reason it should have been closed, I am sad that it was closed, I wanted to give this guy props and ask him questions.

I'll address your post in sections, 'cause that'd be easier to me than addressing the whole damn thing.

First off, Phil did NOTHING wrong. If he'd closed it out of spite, or banned the person who posted it, sure I could see you complaining about his actions. He made a good point and justified closing it, so it's not like there's a mystery or shocker. As far as flamers, there weren't really any - just people who didn't like the car. Flaming (to us) is when a person is rude/mean/offensive for the sake of being so. Sharing one's opinion on anothers' car isn't flaming.

Zilvia.net isn't a business. It's a forum. We do advertising and provide premium memberships to sustain the servers and pay for the bandwidth. On that note, it's a private forum. You have to agree to OUR rules to be here. WE have the right to change the rules, and enforce them how we choose. If we dictate that there must be a picture of Bea Arthur in every post, it had better happen. We're not retarded power-crazed assholes though, so we maintain a reasonable set of rules. See? We're just regular assholes.

The rule of:
"Please respect others and the community. Not everyone can see eye to eye, although this does not permit you to attack other members. If you have a problem send them an email or PM."

Should be replaced with:
"You are not allowed to post a thread unless the sum of money (in dollars) you spent on the parts to be discussed in the thread + your post count is greater than 15,000. You must expect and accept any harassment by anyone with a post count of greater than 10,000."

Now this is just whingeing. Honestly, how does complaining about postcounts and amounts spent on cars accomlish ANYTHING.

This is what the mod said for the last post:
"While I respect your effort and all, this thread is teaching nothing new, no new ground is being broken and most of what you're going to get is flames, as you have likely seen...
If you want to show off pics, then please use the picture thread, if you have some bomb-ass custom work, then make a new thread showing off THAT, but please search to make sure such a thread does not already exist.
I am closing this now."

What constitutes "bomb-ass custom work"? Who is the judge of the "bomb-assness" of this "custom work"? Because the thread was filled with custom work (fitting of panels and suspension parts etc.) Just because he bought the car with the motor already swapped, that wasnt the focus. The focus was the body panels and shocks. To me, there was "bomb-ass custom work" done by him.

You guys need to define your rules a little bit more because now im scared that my work wont be "bomb-ass" enough to post on zilvia. I guess I will have to find another 240 forum that will let me post in it.

thx

-Jon the newbie

OK, clearly you and Phil disagree on what merits a thread.

Fitting of parts to a car doesn't constitute ANYTHING custom. If he were to fabricate a bumper or accomplish some other engineering or bodywork marvel, THAT may be considered custom work. Maybe some crazy rollcage, or a one-off floor brace or something.
As far as the figurative 'bomb-assedness' of such work, or anything, that's determined by the poster. If he'd take that car, stripped it down, did some chassis welding, made some neato braces, did some interesting modification like putting the brake master cylinder under the dashboard, or something else, maybe it would've survived.

All he did was buy two cars, tear apart one and made it useless, and turned the other one into a stock-body car with an SR20DET.

Yay for bondo and paint.

Honestly the tech level of his work is roughly 1950s, not 2007.
Bolts and nuts and filler and primer don't equal anything new.
All of this user's pics could've gone into the pic thread.

[jesuchristo]

I guess my whole point is that just because you have a car that is x amount of coolness points, doesn't mean you should penalize someone who's car is significantly less cool than yours. Or at least if you do, say it in the rules so people know what they are getting into.

Thanks.

[Daniel.]

I should report this thread which will send Phlip an email which will make him lock this thread.

[Z33dori]

yea from my short time here ive noticed that not to many friendly ppl exist here. i dont really find my self enjoy the zilvia community much b/c of all the harshness and flaming.....but eventually u learn to over look the b.s. politics as if it were life. i mean its only the internet so no biggie life goes on.

Hey if they can sleep at night knowing how much of an asshole there were to someone, then there aint much u can do. let them be and just surf.

[ALTRNTV]

If at some point you find out you don't
like this place, then leave.

Simple as that. No one is forcing you to stay here.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

I felt the thread was redeeming. What harm would the thread have cause if it had stayed up? There were tons of people giving him props and encouraging him to do more work, now that opportunity is ruined because of a few rotten apples? Doesn't make much sense.

My whole point is, a forum kind of regulates itself. If a thread sucks it will roll off the back page and never be seen again. If it's good people will post in it and it will stay on top. Either way, the thread was relatively on topic and pretty damn helpful from my point of view.

Nobody but you ever complained about that thread. In order to prevent more complaints, Phil locked it.

How is that not clear?

Basically it's your fault the thread was locked.

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

Why dont you just delete offending posts and call it a day?

We don't always have time to sift thru threads to do such things.

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

I dont think you are a villain, just that the situation could have been handled differently.

My first issue with the thread is that there were people unnecessarily harassing the poster of the thread. That is why I reported the 2 posts. The 2 posts were as followed.

"That car looks terrible.
Paint should have been before the kouki lights
Stock suspension/ stock diff with all the motor work? Pointless."

And:
"new pics
u dont derserve a thread imo

its nothing fancy. nothing crazy. i didnt laern or see anything cool
looks like any other turn key sr powered car kids buy these days

u should paint ur car
before kouki lamps.


and what is with that stupid metal thing? is that your 'fan shroud??

get rid of it. looks horrendously terrible."

It is no punishment to the posters of the flames when the thread is closed. Their malicious posts are still allowed to be viewed for as long as the rest of the useful posts.

That's not a flame, that's an opinion.
If that user had said that the OP was a faggot and that his car was a fagwagon, THAT would be a flame.

My second issue with the thread is that it was closed while still being able to provide useful information and discussion to the community. This was unfair to the original poster of the thread, if it was me I'd be pretty pissed but he really did nothing wrong. How is he supposed to know not to post "non bomb-ass custom work" on zilvia? Its not stated in the rules anywhere.

Also, I hit the "report post" button twice because there were 2 seperate posts to report. I am sorry if this causes you inconvenience, maybe you should ask for more compensation for the job? :P

An effective moderator in my eyes would have PM'd those 2 offending posters and deleted their posts as it was necessary to do. There was another post in the thread in which the member is now placed on probation. Obviously you guys do this kind of thing for bad behavior, this is bad enough to close SOMEONE ELSES thread for but not bad enough to take any action against any poster?

It's not our fault you construe opinions as flaming. If a person doesn't want to hear someone else's opinion on their car, they really shouldn't post it.

Again, there's no PMing of 'offending posters', because they shared their opinions. It was the impetus of your complaints that lead to the thread being closed.

[jesuchristo]

first of all thank you meph for responding, it shows that you care as a site owner. And if you aren't making money on it then hell run it however you want I guess.

Are you going to post any paramaters for posts in the rules? Because right now all it basically says is no flaming/porno/illegal stuff. I would like to post on this forum but im afraid of what I can and can't post now. Also with only 4 pages of chat forum and 7 pages of tech archived, how is any thread supposed to stay alive long enough to search for it?

[C. Senor]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

I guess my whole point is that just because you have a car that is x amount of coolness points, doesn't mean you should penalize someone who's car is significantly less cool than yours. Or at least if you do, say it in the rules so people know what they are getting into.

Thanks.

made little sense to me. you're telling me, you've never ever looked at a car and said damn that thing is fucking hideous. if you have then you have no right saying that.

Originally Posted by spiderman

I should report this thread which will send Phlip an email which will make him lock this thread.

LOL....let me know so i can send the second one withing 8 minutes.

Originally Posted by Z33dori

yea from my short time here ive noticed that not to many friendly ppl exist here. i dont really find my self enjoy the zilvia community much b/c of all the harshness and flaming.....but eventually u learn to over look the b.s. politics as if it were life. i mean its only the internet so no biggie life goes on.

Hey if they can sleep at night knowing how much of an asshole there were to someone, then there aint much u can do. let them be and just surf.

i dont know what you're talking about. i've only seen like 1 or 2 assholes on here. other than that every one here is friendly. nothing but jokes and car knowledge is what i have come to see. i enjoy this site every much and it has become the only forum that i am a full member of.


LONG LIVE ZILVIA........and all of it's "assholes" which i guess includes me..lol.

so fuck you guys that say that...you're an asshole too for calling me an asshole!


HAHAHAHAHA

[ALTRNTV]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

Also with only 4 pages of chat forum and 7 pages of tech archived, how is any thread supposed to stay alive long enough to search for it?

The threads are still there, just not on the first "pages" you can browse through. Just search.

[k's_silvia2.0]

I heard it from some one when I first join
"Welcome to zilvia home of assholes and asshats"?
But stick around toughing up and you some day
hate on some other "newbie".

[jesuchristo]

"Nobody but you ever complained about that thread. In order to prevent more complaints, Phil locked it.

How is that not clear?

Basically it's your fault the thread was locked."

So because people in the thread posted that his car sucked, the moderator agreed with the opinion posts and closed the thread? Is this a moderators job? To close threads that he doesn't find "cool" enough? There were 5 times as many posts that said that the car was cool. If I had reported those posts would the guy have gotten thread of the year?

"you're telling me, you've never ever looked at a car and said damn that thing is fucking hideous. if you have then you have no right saying that."

I have before, I did when I first looked at the thread. When he posted the finished pictures I looked at it and went "hey that turned out kinda nice"

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by SiI40sx

Just separate yourself from an ignorant newbie crowd and you'll be ok. Lack of intellect and bad English / grammar is what isn't welcomed in this site. Also don't EVER ask for opinions, this is the worst site to do that in. We have so many different views and opinions on whats "dope" and what's "wack, gay, lame, stupid etc". There's a lot of different crowds in here, you cant expect to please everyone. Its possible but rare.

This is pretty much true.
If you can form a clear and rational thought, and express it clearly in English, there's little chance of being flamed right out of the gate.
One of the VERY FIRST arguments I got into here was about how people got butthurt over others' opinions. You shouldn't share if you're not ready to hear the worst.

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

Newbies? Go to NICO.

Indeed. NICO loves newbies. Far more than we do. Well... We dig newbies who know how to search and don't need to be spoon-fed.
If you go to NICO, ask them for some link-juice. Apparently, it's popular there.

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

ya hit sometimes, you miss sometimes, there is a huge library of info here, and the mods try to keep duplication to a minimum. altho lately there has seem to been allot of build up threads.

maby there should be a builds forum for people who want to post progress of their builds, but i see how that may detract from write ups on how to do individual things.

That's another consideration. With the growing popularity of 240s, we're getting more and more new owners coming in with their (to them) unique and special buildups which are (to us) cookie cutter and stale.
Same reason we have little tolerance for 'S15 front end' and 'SR vs KA' threads. Some horses have collectively been beaten to death.

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

I guess my whole point is that just because you have a car that is x amount of coolness points, doesn't mean you should penalize someone who's car is significantly less cool than yours. Or at least if you do, say it in the rules so people know what they are getting into.

You clearly have not seen Phil's car...


, Phil!

Originally Posted by Z33dori

yea from my short time here ive noticed that not to many friendly ppl exist here. i dont really find my self enjoy the zilvia community much b/c of all the harshness and flaming.....but eventually u learn to over look the b.s. politics as if it were life. i mean its only the internet so no biggie life goes on.

Hey if they can sleep at night knowing how much of an asshole there were to someone, then there aint much u can do. let them be and just surf.

There are plenty of nice guys here, but the collective of the membership just doesn't like stupid stuff.

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

If at some point you find out you don't
like this place, then leave.

Simple as that. No one is forcing you to stay here.

Yep. We're not hurting for members. We're not in a race to see who can get more. Etc.
Different strokes for different folks.

[articdragon192]

I agree. Look at NICO's 240 section. There's a crap load of threads on "Here's my car, look" and well, it's a 240. Big fucking whoop. Picture threads exists. If you're gonna be an attention whore, it better be a freaking awesome build. Example:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=154901
Crazy build. Shows some stuff people haven't seen. It has people subscribed to it. Stuff like that deserves it own thread because, well, it's fucking amazing, lol. Hum drum stuff that everyone else can do goes in teh picture thread.

[Z33dori]

Originally Posted by k's_silvia2.0

I heard it from some one when I first join
"Welcome to zilvia home of assholes and asshats"?
But stick around toughing up and you some day
hate on some other "newbie".

some one should post that in every newbie thread and we would be good to go........

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

first of all thank you meph for responding, it shows that you care as a site owner. And if you aren't making money on it then hell run it however you want I guess.

Are you going to post any paramaters for posts in the rules? Because right now all it basically says is no flaming/porno/illegal stuff. I would like to post on this forum but im afraid of what I can and can't post now. Also with only 4 pages of chat forum and 7 pages of tech archived, how is any thread supposed to stay alive long enough to search for it?

1 - there is plenty more, click here and change the third block; "Default Thread Age Cut Off" to "Show All Threads," and you will be given EVERYTHING since we changed formats a few years ago.
2 - "no [item]" is purely subject to an adult mind, if we say don't do it, an adult mind should be able to interpret... If not, then it is open to be moderated and explained, as I did in the thread in question

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by jesuchristo

So because people in the thread posted that his car sucked, you as a moderator agreed with the opinion posts and closed the thread? There were 5 times as many posts that said that the car was cool. If I had reported those posts would the guy have gotten thread of the year?

OK, you need to learn to use the quote button!

It's not a matter of me or any other mod/admin agreeing with opinion posts.

Read that last sentence a few more times until it becomes very clear.


It's a matter of action and inaction. When a post is reported, we look at it as an action item. Generally, SOMETHING must be done. If I'd gotten your reported posts before Phil, I would've just made a post in that thread asking you to stop complaining over nothing. That's not what happened, and Phil chose to close it. I stand by his decision. It resolves the issue - no thread, no more complaints.

[jesuchristo]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by jesuchristo
Why dont you just delete offending posts and call it a day?

We don't always have time to sift thru threads to do such things."

You don't have to sift through threads, I HIT THE BUTTON FOR YOU.

[Dousan_PG]

me and phlip dont go together so well
but im glad he locked it

i see u quoting me
YEAH! im famous!!


sandy vaginas need not apply to zilvia.
you wont be missed
nor will that 'build' thread