downshifting to slow your car

[shrumhead]

Well I always thought that downshifting and lifting your foot off the clutch to slow your car when comming to a stop was bad and it would wear away at my engine faster.

Then one day I let my friend drive my 240 and he started doing it and I was screaming at him to stop, but he has been dealing with engines alot longer then me and he told me that it was wear on the engine but it was acceptable wear and its completely normal.  

He told me that I should always do it to keep my breaks alive longer.  Obviously it will keep the breaks working longer, but is it worth the wear on the engine?

[Tyler Durdan]

It's not a wear on the engine...it's a wear on the clutch plate.  For everyday driving, downshifting is okay...it's not that strong of a wear to worry about on the clutch.

[DSC]

Hrm...what costs more, brakes or clutch?

Just use your brakes, thats what they are there for.

I use both, I downshift and brake at the same time.

In most situations I use my brakes if for no other reason to let traffic know I'm slowing down.

If I'm slowing enough to need to downshift I use my brake, otherwise I'll just lift with no downshift.

[DarkRaptor42]

so is shifting into neutral while your braking have a negative effect on the car? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[adey]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkRaptor42 @ Dec. 01 2002,11:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so is shifting into neutral while your braking have a negative effect on the car? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Nope! other than you not having any throttle control, this will not 'harm' any part of your car.
Keep in mind though that it's always good to be in gear, even when slowing to a stop. This way you have the ability to accelerate out of a tight/bad/accident-pending situation if you need to!
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[Keo]

Like DSC, &nbsp;I downshift and use brake whenever I slow down... I find you have alot more control of your car that way and if you need to speed back up for whatever reason, &nbsp;your already in the right gear and ready to go, etc....

[Anubis]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (James @ Dec. 01 2002,02:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It comes in useful let's say when you see a cop ahead and don't want to brake all of a sudden or have him possibly see your taillights light up and give you away.

Also you must be careful not to shift into too low of a gear or say bye bye to your valves. For example you don't want to shift from 65mph into 2nd gear- (maybe even 3rd, have to check). If you do this even letting off the gas/backing in on the clutch again won't help. The rotational mass of the crank spinning beyond redline will make quick friends of Mr. Valve and Mr. Piston <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>
But this is common sense, it does happen by accident though. Just like how people will hydrolock their motors by going through too deep a puddle with cold-air intakes.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
actually this happened to someone i know, he downshifted really low on the freeway by accident, and the engine turned off. He pulled over and started it back up again. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[jdms14]

for the sake of your engine, please rev match, don't just let the clutch out. blip the throttle. you should all know how to do this from studying your option videos. heal toe downshift?

[RedlineRacer]

isn't there a post just like this that is like 3 months old?

[Black Apple]

first off in everyday driving downshifting wont hurt you much, it's when you go racing around and slamming it into a lower gear without rev matching that will hurt the car. With that said, my family has owned a 94 5speed jetta since new, it now has 310 000km on it and the clutch was just changed(2 days ago), i beat the crap out of this car, i drive it at close to 75mph all day for about 200km 5 days a week. Until recently (when the clutch started to slip) i never ever revmatched in it, and the cutch lasted this long. The car has been through 3 new drivers and my parents.
Now to my other beef with this, what the hell is a 5-speed for if you're going to drive it like an auto! use the engine to slow you down! And think of it this way, whats cheaper a clutch OR brakes (ie rotors, and pads, cause they're gonna wear out twice as fast) do the math

[FRpilot]

whats smoking the cluth mean? and what happens when your clutch slips?

[Anubis]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tRaNCeRBoi408 @ Dec. 02 2002,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whats smoking the cluth mean? and what happens when your clutch slips?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i remember seeing a video once where the guy thought his tires were burning out but it was really his clutch....smoke was pouring out everywhere. haha it was great.

[HippoSleek]

I really wanted to stay out of this after that post 3 months ago. &nbsp;

Black Apple -
1) won't hurt it much? &nbsp;Why hurt it at all? &nbsp;

2) &nbsp;not all cars are 94 Jettas... luckily. &nbsp;The more performance you have, the shorter the life of your clutch (fwiw, I've never had a clutch go... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> &nbsp;

3) &nbsp;The point of a 5 speed is power on demand in acceleration (i.e., being able to chose your optimal gear). &nbsp;Acceleration - NOT BRAKING. &nbsp;That is the point of having a car w/ 4 wheel discs. &nbsp;Actually, autos are more prone to engine braking b/c of the inherently bad design of the auto transmission. &nbsp;Otherwise, efficient systems do one thing well - brakes slow, engine go. &nbsp;As for what's cheaper - I can do a brake job in the parking lot of my apartment complex in about 30 minutes (from the time I walk out of my apt until I walk back in). &nbsp;OEM pads and rotors are cheap. &nbsp;And this isn't even getting into the whole a clutch can last for 300,000 mi., but brakes never go beyond 75K no matter who's driving.

Its funny - a couple of weeks ago, I was told yet again by yet another track school instructor that you should NEVER slow the car w/ the engine. &nbsp;Having it in gear is a good idea for safety and rev matching is 100% necessary for downshifts to prepare for accelaration or to increase throttle response (e.g., before a corner). &nbsp;Otherwise, you are just wasting your effort and clutch.

[Foxcolt]

With proper rev matching and no slipping of the clutch, how would it wear on the clutch any more than shifting to accelerate?

Jed

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tRaNCeRBoi408 @ Dec. 02 2002,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whats smoking the cluth mean? and what happens when your clutch slips?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no, A smoking clutch would mean that it's done. If your clutch slips bad (real bad) you'll be able to smell it. Other than that you can feel it. But if your clutch starts smoking than you better have a tow truck ready <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

Jed

[nan]

you can learn to use heal and toe to downshift. don't really need to use ur clutch, or ur brake. it's a lot safer when u'r braking at the turns in gear than just braking in neutral.

[YellwMonky]

You want to use both brakes and clutch when slowing down. Using the brakes is to slow down. You want to downshift so you will be in the proper gear for your speed. Also, you should always be in proper gear to avoid an ugly situation. If there is an emergency situation, you CAN downshift into a lower gear while using the brakes and it will slow you down much faster. I think a manual transmission is better when slowing down the car as well as acceleration.

[bbp]

well said hippo... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[flipboi13]

Certainly using engine braking puts more wear on the clutch than usual, but for specific situations, I hope we can agree that it is needed in place of braking.

Me tho, I'll wear down the brakes and clutch as much as I want. &nbsp;Sure, it wastes more money, but whats the point of a car if you have to baby everything all the way?? &nbsp;I also like how the car's weight isn't slugged to the front wheels in engine braking, as opposed to braking and feeling the car tilt like a boat.

[knives]

this is what i do driving everyday on the street... tell me if it's bad. >>
right before turning onto a perpendicular street, i brake, downshift to second and keep the clutch in all the way through the turn, then when i've completed the turn, i revmatch and go...

[boxmod]

i may be biased- being an ex-drag racer i now drift and autox but...

if you want to be efficient on a road course, where braking, turning, accel are all part of it, you need this skill.
if ur just a 'rice poser' that gets the mods and just rides around, dont waste ur clutch cuz chances are, you cant do it right.
if your a drag racer you dont need this skill EXCEPT if you want to be able to slow down faster.
all in all, the braking time will be cut WAY down if you know what your doing. if you dont, you can make it worse. practise before relying on it.

if you read the booklet that comes with manuals, most even tell you how ENGINE BRAKING is fine. if you know how to rev match then its no biggie. since i bought my 240, ive been doing it and have replaced brake pads 2 times, not once the clutch and it still grabs like crazy(stock spec). of course i might have a magical one?

and what about the ebrake... anyone else use this great tool?

[vg30s12]

That's how I usually do it during leisurely driving, too, knives. &nbsp;The brake and gas pedals on my S12 aren't set up in a way which enables comfortable heel-and-toeing, which enables you to rev-match and brake at the same time.
As for using the clutch to slow the car, I still do what the manual recommends. &nbsp;When I have to stop, I leave it in whatever gear I was in, letting the engine assist the brakes and slow the car until the rpm's drop below 1700 or so, then I clutch in and brake to a stop. &nbsp;Downshifting to a stop DOES put extra wear on the clutch since most people will not rev-match it perfectly every time, even skilled drivers. &nbsp;I would MUCH rather replace brakes than a clutch.
The time that I do downshift and use the engine more for braking is in slippery conditions, esp. snow. &nbsp;The engine braking is more gradual, and you are less likely to enter a skid than if you use the brakes. &nbsp;And if you plan on coming to a stop using mostly the engine, it forces you to start slowing down earlier, which is always a good idea when the road is slick.

[knives]

is it also fine to just put it in neutral when you're coming to a stop?
ex. you're cruising at 40mph, there's a stoplight at a distance and you see it turn yellow, knowing you won't make it, there's no point in accelerating, so you put in neutral and coast 'til you're in braking distance, and brake.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (knives @ Dec. 06 2002,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">is it also fine to just put it in neutral when you're coming to a stop?
ex. you're cruising at 40mph, there's a stoplight at a distance and you see it turn yellow, knowing you won't make it, there's no point in accelerating, so you put in neutral and coast 'til you're in braking distance, and brake.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thats fine and I do it when I'm lazy but if something happens you may want to be in gear to help get out of the way.

I don't understand how using the tranny in gear helps you be able to slow down faster. &nbsp;The rate at which you slow down depends on your tires for the most part. &nbsp;Unless your stock brakes have issues you should be able to lock them up (not that you want to, just saying you have the ability to slow the car as fast as it can possibly be slowed down) so being in gear and using the engine to brake in addition would just mean it takes less brake pressure to acheive the same stopping distance.

[vg30s12]

You just answered your own question. It takes less brake pressure hence extending brake life. It does not help in a panic stop, of course, since if you lock up the rear wheels with the car in gear, well your engine stops, too.
Incidentally, leaving it in gear while braking to a gradual stop also saves a little gasoline. When you are decelerating in gear, foot off the gas, the momentum of the car is actually driving the engine instead of the other way around, and it uses even less fuel than it does at idle.

[logo20]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Incidentally, leaving it in gear while braking to a gradual stop also saves a little gasoline. &nbsp;When you are decelerating in gear, foot off the gas, the momentum of the car is actually driving the engine instead of the other way around, and it uses even less fuel than it does at idle.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

so the engine uses more gas at idle and less gas in gear when coming to a stop? &nbsp;if that's what he means, it doesn't make sense to me.