For the fabricators. Anyone else have this problem - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

atutt · 03-07-2009, 11:49 PM

I am curious if anyone is having problems using Vibrants aluminum mandrels.

It's almost as if the material is contaminated all the way through. It's next to impossible to start a weld. And equally as hard to keep one going without running into serious problems.

I have tried MANY different methods of prep:
Acetone
SS wire brush
Grinders with numberous different wheels
scoth brite pads of all kinds
brake cleaner
purging
and combonations of those.

I know some of those should never be used. But I had to try.

NOTHING seems to work. And it's ONLY on T6061 Aluminum madrels from vibrant...

I am curious if any other welders/fabricators have the same issue.

Before anyone suggests switching suppliers. We would if we could get it somewhere else as quickly and efficeintly as we can vibrants stuff.

blu808 · 03-08-2009, 12:05 AM

You get what you pay for. Usually I like their stuff. It is good quality, and works well.

However i have had a problem welding on their aluminum too. it almost seems like they are using a cheaper grade, contaminated aluminum.

I pre heated it, and used a lower amp setting. that helped a bunch.

atutt · 03-08-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

You get what you pay for. Usually I like their stuff. It is good quality, and works well.

However i have had a problem welding on their aluminum too. it almost seems like they are using a cheaper grade, contaminated aluminum.

I pre heated it, and used a lower amp setting. that helped a bunch.

Interesting you say that...

I tried low amperage at first... Wasn't really working. I had to use more than double the amperage to get anything to start decently.

I don't get it to be honest. Their V-bands are AMAZING and their SS stuff isn't bad either but their aluminum piping is utter shit.

blu808 · 03-08-2009, 01:23 AM

I think it is scale.

The big problem with aluminum is that when it sits for awhile it starts to oxide. The oxidation creates almost a layer of armor over the aluminum that resist welding. In that the layer of oxidation has a higher melting point of the aluminum itself. So basically, if you apply heat to slow at low amps, the scale will just transfer the heat, melt the alumiinum, and keep a solid wall of scale in the front.

I noticed that when I preheated to 600-800 deg F that is welded fine on a clean brushed piece.

Luke.

atutt · 03-08-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

I think it is scale.

The big problem with aluminum is that when it sits for awhile it starts to oxide. The oxidation creates almost a layer of armor over the aluminum that resist welding. In that the layer of oxidation has a higher melting point of the aluminum itself. So basically, if you apply heat to slow at low amps, the scale will just transfer the heat, melt the alumiinum, and keep a solid wall of scale in the front.

I noticed that when I preheated to 600-800 deg F that is welded fine on a clean brushed piece.

Luke.

Aluminum will actually oxidize in a few minutes if the scale has just been removed. IE, the scale will come back in a few minutes after cleaning if the aluminum is left alone.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the polish used on the pipes. Since they come from vibrant fully polished.
It's almost as if the polish has embeded itself deep inside the aluminum.

I'll give the pre-heat treatment a try...
Or we'll just have to find another supplier for aluminum.

03-07-2009, 11:49 PM	#1
atutt Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: barrie, ontario, canada Age: 38 Posts: 997 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	For the fabricators. Anyone else have this problem I am curious if anyone is having problems using Vibrants aluminum mandrels. It's almost as if the material is contaminated all the way through. It's next to impossible to start a weld. And equally as hard to keep one going without running into serious problems. I have tried MANY different methods of prep: Acetone SS wire brush Grinders with numberous different wheels scoth brite pads of all kinds brake cleaner purging and combonations of those. I know some of those should never be used. But I had to try. NOTHING seems to work. And it's ONLY on T6061 Aluminum madrels from vibrant... I am curious if any other welders/fabricators have the same issue. Before anyone suggests switching suppliers. We would if we could get it somewhere else as quickly and efficeintly as we can vibrants stuff.

03-08-2009, 12:05 AM	#2
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 42 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	You get what you pay for. Usually I like their stuff. It is good quality, and works well. However i have had a problem welding on their aluminum too. it almost seems like they are using a cheaper grade, contaminated aluminum. I pre heated it, and used a lower amp setting. that helped a bunch. __________________

03-08-2009, 01:23 AM	#4
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 42 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I think it is scale. The big problem with aluminum is that when it sits for awhile it starts to oxide. The oxidation creates almost a layer of armor over the aluminum that resist welding. In that the layer of oxidation has a higher melting point of the aluminum itself. So basically, if you apply heat to slow at low amps, the scale will just transfer the heat, melt the alumiinum, and keep a solid wall of scale in the front. I noticed that when I preheated to 600-800 deg F that is welded fine on a clean brushed piece. Luke. __________________