So, who has the power?

[Brian]

I didn't see this yet. If it's already got a thread, sorry. Please delete this one.

The whole thing in Arizona. People that are here illegally. Questioning of them. etc. etc. etc.


What's the opinion of Zilvia folk on this whole thing?

Is it total bullshit to ask somebody about their citizenship? They must be racist, right? ... asking something like that.

Is it perfectly fine to ask somebody if they are allowed to be here? You might be here illegally. Why in the hell should I NOT be able to find this out?




How do you feel?

[oscarmagana]

well i think its a good thing that should be passed here in cali idk maybe its because of my personal background.. its not fair for those who wait patiently in their country until they receive there documents to come to the country legally. im all for it

[Brian]

I kind of wanted to add more to this, but I think it would be a great topic on it's own.

Basically it would be "The Politically Correct disaster."
A whole discussion on how the huge PC thing is going to lead to the downfall of the US.

[shiftdrift]

i think it's fair for sure. people shouldn't get into our country illegally. if you are here legally, then it shouldn't be a big deal to you to show proof to someone. anyways, illegal immigrants take our jobs, and just really don't help out our country at all.

[Flicktitty]

my buddy posted this on FB. thought it's pretty appropriate.

JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS... YOU PASS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YRS HARD LABOR, YOU PASS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET SHOT. YOU PASS THE AMERICAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, DRIVER'S LICENSE, ALLOWANCE FOR A PLACE TO LIVE, HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT SO YOU CAN READ.........A DOCUMENT. WE CARRY PASSPORTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES OR FACE JAILTIME.



i think it is COMPLETE BULLSHIT. people are fighting against this. i think it should be like that in EVERY state.

[Otto347]

^^ Ditto....

[Touge Noob S13]

Originally Posted by Flicktitty

my buddy posted this on FB. thought it's pretty appropriate.

JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS... YOU PASS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YRS HARD LABOR, YOU PASS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET SHOT. YOU PASS THE AMERICAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, DRIVER'S LICENSE, ALLOWANCE FOR A PLACE TO LIVE, HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT SO YOU CAN READ.........A DOCUMENT. WE CARRY PASSPORTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES OR FACE JAILTIME.



i think it is COMPLETE BULLSHIT. people are fighting against this. i think it should be like that in EVERY state.

You cross Mexico's southern border illegaly you will get shot as well.

[nismo619]

im all for it!

look at home depot at 7am in the morning. there are a grip of illegals waiting for work and the cops cant do anything about it cuz they cant prove that they are illegal. im not racist or anything my best friend is mexican but im tired of all the illegals taking work from american citizens, and talking shit on american, and how much better mexico is. if its so much better GET THE FUCK OUT ! sorry i got going but yeah i think cali should do it too but we have our head stuck so far up our ass i dont hink we will

[Brian]

It's early, but I'd have to imagine people's location will play a big part in their answer.



anyways, something I keep thinking about in relation to this topic is driving. All of us have to have a driver's license to drive, right? When we get pulled over, do you think twice about showing the officer your license to drive?

So, what if officers asked you for a license to be here? Same thing? Different?

[SUPERSTAR]

So many thoughts in my head on this topic.

But, I agree with the law. This law should have been in affect since day one right?

[Brian]

I think it's really easy to throw out a YES or NO answer... but when you really think about it, it may become more difficult.


Joto. lol

[Mister.E]

I'm honestly surprised to see all of these responses that are in agreement with the law. i thought a bunch of people here would be more on the side against it.

[Brian]

Give it time.
* I'm also surprised so far.

[Agamemnon]

I'm 50/50 on this.

I dont like the increase of power to law officals and I hate the violation of the 4th Amendment.

However, I have read some really scary stories about how bad it has gotten down there and the majority of citzens are infavor of this bill. They're are tired of the federal government sitting on their thumbs and not doing anything about the problem. It's a desperate bill mad by a desperate state.

[Brian]

What I found to be pretty annoying was on the news last night, they were in Phoenix (I think). They made sure to show footage of only one person FOR it who was.......... guess it........................ WHITE.
They made sure to show a bunch of people AGAINST it who were....................... guess this oneee........................ MEXICAN. The reporter was Mexican also.


damn Media. Using their power to show stories in a specific light. I'm sure there are plenty of white people against it and plenty of mexican people for it.

[shiftdrift]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I'm 50/50 on this.

I dont like the increase of power to law officals and I hate the violation of the 4th Amendment.

However, I have read some really scary stories about how bad it has gotten down there and the majority of citzens are infavor of this bill. They're are tired of the federal government sitting on their thumbs and not doing anything about the problem. It's a desperate bill mad by a desperate state.

the amendments are for AMERICANS. LEGAL AMERICANS

[roboticnissan]

I think its kinda crazy. But I really doubt cops are going to walk around the city and just ask random ppl if they are legal or not. It will most likly be if you get in trouble and have no license then you need to have a green card or whatever. But id say pass the bill. You can really tell at least where I live whether or not theses ppl are legal or not.

[Charles240]

I agree there is a huge problem with these illegals...the only HUGE problem is when they pass one thing whose to stop them passing the next...when the true balance of power shifts....

[yokotas13]

im down
illegals are a liability.
if they want to be here, they should do it legally like the others that have
and learn goddamn american too!

[SUPERSTAR]

Originally Posted by Brian

I think it's really easy to throw out a YES or NO answer... but when you really think about it, it may become more difficult.


Joto. lol

Not so difficult, really.

If this law was in affect from day one, then things would be a lot different.

If the border patrol is not able to keep up. Then this law would have helped all along.

But to implement it officers now?? Hmmm.

Maybe they should just give Citizens the right to arrest anyone elegal here and see where that goes.

[drift freaq]

Mexico itself is a larger part of the problem. The country can't effectively police itself due to corruption. The system exploits the public for its own gain.

The country encourages illegals to cross the border so they can send American dollars back.

Its a Fact a big part of Mexico's GNP is American dollars sent back from relatives in the states.

Seriously my Grandparents had to come here legally through Ellis Island they had to earn and their citizenship and take tests for it. They did not just cross into the country and then demand to be allowed to stay because they were already here.

The mistake was made during the Clinton Administration. When Clinton gave amnesty and the right of citizenship to some 3 million illegals. We have been on a slippery slope ever since.

In the end it should be simple if you want to come here you follow the regular channels.

What they should do, is give the people that come to work in the fields and whatnot, a temporary seasonal work permit with the option to apply for citizenship.

The rest , well if your not coming to work seasonally and going back and your crossing illegally ? Go home.
Do it right or don't do it.

Oh and like someone else the Drug Cartels in Mexico are out of control and killing people in some states like it is going out of style. That has spread across the border into Arizona and Texas.

I just get tired of the valets that are Mexican telling me we should just give all the illegals amnesty because guess what? They are probably illegal themselves. LOL

[SUPERSTAR]

Oh great, information that has been talked about in 30 different threads already. ^^









The OP should be read again for those not posting what Brian is asking.

If you do not understand the questions, read again.

Quote them if you must so you can understand it and answer the questions.

For once it would be nice to stay on topic.

[aznpoopy]

not really a one or the other black and white question.

traditional US culture shuns this kind of "papers please" shit because its very much nazi-regime-ish and un-american. nobody likes the idea of a police state. small changes like this take us one step closer incrementally over time.

unfortunately traditional US political and social institutions may not be equipped to handle the illegal immigration problem. i am not blind... something like the AZ law may be 100% absolutely necessary. but i am a little worried about where it will lead in the long run.

[SUPERSTAR]

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

unfortunately traditional US political and social institutions may not be equipped to handle the illegal immigration problem. i am not blind... something like the AZ law may be 100% absolutely necessary. but i am a little worried about where it will lead in the long run.

These are my thoughts as well, it will have several positive and negative outcomes. But, I guess we will see them real soon and in a year or so.

If they did this to California, it would set us back even further financially.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by shiftdrift

the amendments are for AMERICANS. LEGAL AMERICANS

Correct. However, you are innocent until proven guilty in this country. In order for law enforcement to ask for your ID, there had to be probable cause.

This new AZ bill makes it so state(not just federal) enfocement can ask for ID soley based on the fact that if you fit a profile of an illegal immegrant. Brown skin, not speaking english, hanging out in front of a Home Depot, etc... Thats the new probable cause.

[Brian]

And where is the problem? I don't get pissed when the police officer asks for my Drivers License.


Here it is sir. Thank you.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by shiftdrift

the amendments are for AMERICANS. LEGAL AMERICANS

I'm looking through the Constitution. I don't see anything about "AMERICANS," "LEGAL AMERICANS" or citizen or etc...

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I don't believe that having brown skin gives probable cause to being an illegal.

Who here has lost a job to an illegal immigrant? If employers were held responsible and forced to pay anybody, even an illegal, then you aren't going to be losing any jobs to illegals.

[Z33dori]

that thing that pisses me off about illegals is that they still get medical .... but this can go far further than just Illegals to be honest

I dont think its fair for them to be protected by the laws that are for legal citizens, i dont think they should get all the bypasses that they get. The government needs to stop protecting them, they dont belong here. If they really wanted it then they would file for citizenship.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

I don't believe that having brown skin gives probable cause to being an illegal.

It does now.

[nismo619]

they arent going to ask for your papers just because your mexican or canadian. im sure the officers have a good enough educated guess to tell who is illegal. they most likely wont ask for your papers say if you were mexican and got pulled over an had your drivers license on you and spoke english apose to the guy who got pulled over for having too many people in the car and cant find his DL. or the guy in front of home depot of walks/jogs/runs when the officer sees him. those are the people who will be asked. this is a great law and its about fucking time, im tired of going to job sites full of illegals its bullshit