please critisize our turbo parts list

[Bbandit]

fastpace and I have discussed this for quite a while now..
please critizise our parts lists and plans
we might forgot about some part.. so feel free to add or give suggestions
this is what we came up with after a couple of months of research


turbo setup

fuel management:
choice#1
walbro fuel pump
370cc injectors (sr20)
hacked MAFs (we know that hacking an s13 MAF has never been tested yet, might go with s14 MAFs or dual S13 MAF)

choice#2
walbro fuel pump
370cc
s-afc
vortech FMU 12:1 or 9:1 not sure
stock s13 MAFs (maybe relocate it closer to the turbo compressor)

(we are still debating on which choice to pick)


turboparts:
85-86 z31 T3 turbo oil/water cooled
JGS log style manifold
custom downpipe
custom intercooler pipings
saab stock FMIC
eclipse BOV
braided lines and fittings, etc
gauges = boost gauge, and A/F gauge
manual boost controler (maybe)


what we are going to do
1. install the fuel managements and A/F gauge... drive it around for a while and see how rich it will run throughout the powerband
after we're confident with the fuel management.. proceed to step 2
2. check engine compression and slap on the turbo and all of the stuff..
set it to run 5 psi and see how it goes from there

note: we are going to do this whole thing in our parking lot

[240 2NR]

Things to keep in mind after the turbo is installed and that will need attention and should be budgeted for if they haven't been already are:
Clutch
Fluids (coolant, oil, brake fluid etc)
Adapter to run an oil line to the turbo
Fuel filter
Radiator

Sorry, this isn't much of a turbo list, but it's the support I know a turbo will require. I've been looking into a turbo upgrade as well but haven't gotten in to the specifics of how to run my fuel management yet since I'm a ways off anyway should I decide to go turbo or NA and things like the radiator and clutch would probably go in before I started building the turbo (and would probably be done anyway if I were to go NA).

[Bbandit]

yep clutch.. we will replace the clutch.. prolly go with either ACT clutch stage 2 or maybe stage 3, but yea.. clutch is a must since mine is about to die..

yes the fuel management is the thing im worried about
we're still figuring out whats the best/safe setup for cheapest cost

[240racer]

looks good guys. I would prefer the s-afc plan and then run it on the dyno. I think either way you are going to want to run it with a wideband a/f meter (not a gauge) and most dyno shops have one. I would not trust a a.f gauge to do a baseline tune, I would use it to give you a warning that something is not working correctly. It's kinda like a EGT gauge, you don't tune with it, you just use it to tell you that everything is working properly. BTW, you can tune with either one. I dont think you need a FMU with the s-afc, but you can do what you want. I don't have one. However, if you run a 255high pressure pump your fuel pressure will rise since the stock regulator can't handle the flow. You don't need the 255 pump, the 190l/hr will be more then enough fuel to make enough power to blow the stock pistons and rods :-). I would just get the 190l/hr pump and use the stock regulator. Try to keep at least 4" or so between the mafs and the compressor so you don't get any turbulance in the mafs.

[RBS14]

who makes the 190lph fuel pump? couldn't you just run that (the fuel pump), 370's, S14 maf and a fmu? that would take care of the fuel system wouldn't it? Just curious for when i do my KA-T in 5 kagillion years. haha

[fastpace]

thanks for the info 240racer. Like RBS14 said, where can you get a 190lph fuel pump from. And are you saying the only reason to get the walbro fuel pump is only if you are running alot of boost?

[Muzzy]

from the same people who make the 255 pump..walbro

and i still dont know wut a FMU is...fuel management unit??

and wut is the flow rate on our stock fuel pupm..150?
is our (stock) pump able to produce enough pressure for 370s?
by the way..my pump is new so its fine not dirty or anything?

[Bbandit]

IIRC z32 stock fuel pump is 190, right?
ic...
so 190lbs fuel pump, 370cc injectors, stock s13 mafs, stock fpr/fuel rail, and an SAFC(dyno tune) are a pretty safe setup

but how about this...
vortech rrfpr, 370cc injectors, fuel pump, stock s13 mafs
it'll be cheaper overall.. but i guess that stock s13 mafs it too small... ugh..

[russian]

question:

wouldnt be better to use smaller turbo at lower psi level, like you guys want at 5psi, say t25 or 28, i think eclipses use t25.

[Bbandit]

yea we want to start at 5psi..
but im planning to go up to like 7-8 psi
my goal is only 250hp max
i'll go beyond that after i graduate
but im not worrying about the turbo right now..
im more concerned about the fuel management.. (safe + cheap)
thats why i need criticisms

i think 1st gen eclipse turbo is equivalent to a T3 but a small one..
with .42 A/R (i might be wrong)
but yea.. the size of it is slightly bigger than t25...
by slightly i meant they look almost the same size-wise

[misnomer]

Your parts list sucks ***.

[Muzzy]

y

[240racer]

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...ml#application

I think the z32 one is more expensive.

You don't need any other fuel management if you have the s-afc as long as you run the stock mafs and 370s. IF you run other stuff instead then you need to do other things. do not get a rrfpr if you are getting an afc, they are a weak excuse for a fuel management system. the stock mafs is not too small for 250rwhp, I did it.

that's all I have to say for now

[Bbandit]

Originally posted by misnomer
Your parts list sucks ***.

i know it sucks
thats why i want criticism
but i also want to know why
posting such reply doesnt help at all
or maybe you just dont want to help
hey what can i say

ps: 240racer, i sent you PM and email.. did you receive it?

[Jeff240sx]

Z32 pump is 255LPH and much higher pressure than a walbro hi-pressure pump. Yes, it is more expensive. Yes, it is a lot better. And Yes, you WILL need an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator for that pump, because it will outflow the stock FPR.
And that turbo sucks. Hard to hook up, uses a funny flange. Either take a look at one and see if you want it (and consider that it is almost 20 years old), or go on Ebay for t3 or t3/4 turbos for like $400. If you don't have that much, try some Ford 5-bolt t3s... because the flange is easier to get. Or Mitsu / Volvo turbos, or a toyota CT-26. Those are all very common turbos to use on a KA, and easier to repair/find flanges for.
-Jeff

[docrice]

If you plan to use an eclipse stock BOV, i'd reccomend a 1st gen (89-94) because the 2g one is crappy, 2g guys upgrade to 1g BOV's for a huge difference...try searching for the dsm parts trader, you can get your BOV and a lot of good stuff pretty cheap there. good luck!

[Bbandit]

hey jeff
where have you been? hows your ka-t?

anyways...
yea we noticed that the z31 turbo looks kinda funny and the flanges are are placed in some funny positions..
i thought about getting 1st gen eclipse turbo but i think its too small.. eventhough i want a fast spooling turbo, i still think T3 maybe with .48 A/R will suit my need..

okay so with 255lph fuel pump, i should get after market fpr
but does it matter if its regular fpr(cheap b&m) or rrfpr(vortech 12:1) ?

[Maeda]

If your planning for higher then 5 psi i'd have to say I would NOT go for a rrfpr or anything of the sort. I'd highly recommend, in my lowly opinion, that you up the injectors to atleast 450cc (theres a calculator for this someplace)and go with an electronic piggy back system (SAFC, EMANAGE!)seeing as anything higher then 5psi the mechanical systems will max out. You'll probably need to add in a fuel rail to your list.
I would also recommed just getting a Z32 MAF rather then a hacked stock maf just for the sake of reliability and tidyness.

If you need to skimp, skimp on the intercooler, the turbine itself, the piping, the manifold, etc. Do not skimp on the fuel system!

ps.
I know a good fabricator i'd like to plug too, so if you wanna know who PM me.

pps.
Plan to be boosted next week kids!
Heres my list to compare to.

Turbo Stuffies
Custom angled manifold (clears stb and brake mc with heat shield) 300-something$
!Mystery Hybrid Turbo from a 6.5L Diesel by Borgwarner-IHI - 350$ (I'd say for 5psi-7psi Get a T3)
I/C Off a blown civic (Get a Cheap Side Mount)
!Tial 35mm Wastegate with 6lb Spring
Z32 MAF
!GReddy Oil Press Gauge (Oil means life for your turbo, I think Autometer works fine but I got a deal on GReddy's, don't buy the autometer a/f)
!GReddy Exhaust Temp (Good when paired with dyno #s)

Fuel System
255 Walboro Pump
450cc DSM Injectors - cheap and easy to find, and injectors dont really wear out
Custom Fuel Rail (A Must with DSM injectors, because they dont fit)
GReddy Emanage (<300$)
!GReddy Profec-e01 (pricey but tunes timing and fuel with the emanage, but the profec-b is MUCH cheaper)
!Knock Off HKS BOV (I don't know how it works so I won't recommend it, 1st gen DSM BOV should be fine)

This is all to run 10 psi safely in a daily driver.
(!=use something else and save $$$)

[SilviaDriver]

im actually in the same boat as Bbandit. ive talked to him briefly about this. but i was wondering, wat do you guys suggest for turbo size taht will spool approx. 3-3.5K rpms?

[Jeff240sx]

Been busy making car work, getting ready for college to come, moved, ect.
Anyway.. the 2nd gen Eclipses have larger turbos.
-Jeff

[240racer]

Jeff, for how much we have talked I can't believe I have to post just to disagree with you. I highly doubt that the z32 fuel pump outflows the 255lph high pressure pump from walbro at any pressure. But I would be interested if it did. The MKIV supra one is about the same as the walbro and of course both are way more then anybody needs for 10psi on our cars. Also, the 2G DSM turbo is the little T-25 and is smaller then the 14b that came stock in the 1G DSM. It doesn't matter since you want a T3 anyway.

Other then that, listen to Jeff, we all knows he knows what's going on, just slips sometimes :-)

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Been busy making car work, getting ready for college to come, moved, ect.

ahh... the things you've been missing

[Muzzy]

hey ace...wut turbo u had (mitsu) 16g or 20g?

[Jeff240sx]

The fuel pump information came from Dennis at UH. He said that the flow rates are the same (255 L/hr) but the Z32 pump can flow more fuel at a higher pressure. Also, that is will max out the stock FPR.
And yea.. I dropped the ball on the Eclipse turbos. Ehh.. sue me. I knew what I meant. IMO.. both are too small for a 2.4L KA trying to make 10psi daily.
-Jeff

[240racer]

well this thread was all about critisism so I couldn't help myself. I agree with you, who cares about those stupid stock dsm turbos, they are too small for that little 2l that they come on.
you are right about the fpr and that was your main point, that's why I suggested the 190lphr one for those of us that aren't going with larger then 550cc/min injectors, since it's enough fuel for 4 of those at 15lbs of boost (which would be about 45-50 psi of fuel pressure)