E85 on 370cc

[S14_BOSS]

Let me start of firstly by stating that I'm truly sorry if this has been covered multiple times, but i tried to google seach this answer and didn't find anything except for some N/A KA's, probably because it's not possible.

Anyways, i was curious to know if it was possible to run E85 on stock 370cc side feed Injectors. Specifically on my RB25 w/ 370cc.


Setup:

RB25 S1
Apex 1.1 Metal HG
ARP head studs
FMIC 3"
370cc Injectors
N62 MAF (Blow through)
Stock Turbo @ 13psi
HKS BoV
Z32 Fuel Filter
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
Aeromotive FPR

[oni jake]

no. Need bigger injectors. 850cc or bigger.

[S14_BOSS]

Originally Posted by oni jake

no. Need bigger injectors. 850cc or bigger.

850?! That seems a little rediculous for my setup. If you took the time to look at my mods, you would see that my motor would only support 300whp MAX and that's pushing it. I could Possibky see 550cc but 850 seems a little extreme.

I'm thinking of switching but not sure if its worth it.

[oni jake]

Originally Posted by S14_BOSS

850?! That seems a little rediculous for my setup. If you took the time to look at my mods, you would see that my motor would only support 300whp MAX and that's pushing it. I could Possibky see 550cc but 850 seems a little extreme.

I'm thinking of switching but not sure if its worth it.

I took the time to look at your mods. Maybe you should take the time to understand what E85 is and how it works. RB25's with basic mods and E85 can push towards +450hp all day long.

Regardless, 850cc is just a good starting point. I'm sure you could lower if you want, but there is no real reason for your power limit to be set at a maxed injector duty cycle.

[Croustibat]

I am using 1000cc for e85 on my puny CA18DET. It is not stock either, but that is what i needed to keep a max 80% duty cycle. Stock injectors are 370cc on this thing too ...

[2.5T_/<ouki]

Originally Posted by oni jake

I took the time to look at your mods. Maybe you should take the time to understand what E85 is and how it works. RB25's with basic mods and E85 can push towards +450hp all day long.

Regardless, 850cc is just a good starting point. I'm sure you could lower if you want, but there is no real reason for your power limit to be set at a maxed injector duty cycle.

Stock turbo will not come close to 450hp, E85 or not.

[maverickmotorsports]

At 12psi you're pretty close to max duty cycle anyway. Add in the fact that E85 needs 30% more fuel and you'll be leaning out.

550cc is the minimum but with those you probably can't safely up the boost any more. And you'll be on the edge of their duty cycle as well.

[2muchboost]

FIC offers a very easy to use calculator on their website. Even at 300 hp (crank hp) you would need a minimum 350cc on Pump and 455cc on E85....thats at 90% duty cycle and 43.5 PSI AT BASE PRESSURE. As noted above you need at least a 30% increase in flow going from pump to E85 as ethanol consumes 30% more fuel.

Moral to the story....you need much bigger injectors to get even remotely close to any goal in the 250+rwhp range. You would be maxing out at somewhere in the range of 200rwhp with those injectors.....not worth it. And if you do decide to upgrade injectors remember you need to make sure the rest of your fuel system is compatible with E85, you have an ECU/Standalone that can handle the changes, and go for at least 1,000cc's.

Flow Calculator
http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

[Croustibat]

Dont take these calculators for granted though ... 500/550cc should be enough for 250rwhp. But they wont be at 80% duty. Total fuel consumption goes up but not by 30%, it is more like 15/20% .

[trix]

Originally Posted by george

At 12psi you're pretty close to max duty cycle anyway. Add in the fact that E85 needs 30% more fuel and you'll be leaning out.

550cc is the minimum but with those you probably can't safely up the boost any more. And you'll be on the edge of their duty cycle as well.

george is right

[2muchboost]

Agreed they are rough calculators

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by trix

george is right

He is not, and this comes from someone who has been using e85 for maybe 5 years now.

[speed_box]

usually the saying is double the fuel for e85 (from what ive learned), why not run meth injection?

[2.5T_/<ouki]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

He is not, and this comes from someone who has been using e85 for maybe 5 years now.

What would you recommend for 300rwhp ?

[s13mikesr20]

Id run t28 tune bigger injectors 555+ basic parts upgrades exhaust etc.

I made 330hp on 750cc hks 272 cams s14 t28 16 pounds of boost on 91

[OrangeVirus1]

370cc would be fine if you were NA.

[oni jake]

Originally Posted by 2.5T_/<ouki

What would you recommend for 300rwhp ?

On a RB25? Turn the boost up.

[2.5T_/<ouki]

Originally Posted by oni jake

On a RB25? Turn the boost up.

Boost is @ 13psi

[OrangeVirus1]

Turn up the boost.... on a bigger turbo

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by 2.5T_/<ouki

Boost is @ 13psi

get a bigger turbo then. If you got the ceramic wheeled turbo on it, dont push your luck ...

[Dolby109]

You guys are aware RB's have 6 cylinders right?[/sarcasm]
It looks to me like some of you are basing calculations on 4*370cc injectors.

Still the calculators I found show 300hp crank pushing 90% duty cycle for 370cc on pump gas, so you probably would need bigger if you switch to E85 and still push 300hp.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Dolby109

You guys are aware RB's have 6 cylinders right?[/sarcasm]
It looks to me like some of you are basing calculations on 4*370cc injectors.

Still the calculators I found show 300hp crank pushing 90% duty cycle for 370cc on pump gas, so you probably would need bigger if you switch to E85 and still push 300hp.

Have you read any of this thread? What the hell do you think they've been telling him?

[TheRealFATagent]

What about tuning i looked at your mod list and nothing states a way to tune your motor?

[maverickmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

He is not, and this comes from someone who has been using e85 for maybe 5 years now.

Except this dude is using a stock turbo and an RB(6 cylinder).

The stock injectors/maf go to shit right around 12-13psi. the maf is maxed out and so are the injectors.

To run the same 12-13psi on E85 you need ~30% more fuel/injector.

370x1.3 = 481cc. 550cc is a common injector so that's why I suggested those.

It's really a function of whatever turbo he has anyway. A bigger turbo at lower PSI will max the injectors out sooner. But the stock stuff hits the limit at 12-13psi.

[S14_BOSS]

Originally Posted by george

Except this dude is using a stock turbo and an RB(6 cylinder).

The stock injectors/maf go to shit right around 12-13psi. the maf is maxed out and so are the injectors.

To run the same 12-13psi on E85 you need ~30% more fuel/injector.

370x1.3 = 481cc. 550cc is a common injector so that's why I suggested those.

It's really a function of whatever turbo he has anyway. A bigger turbo at lower PSI will max the injectors out sooner. But the stock stuff hits the limit at 12-13psi.

I am using a N62 MAF and the last time i did dyno my car (NIStune) the injectors were at 85% duty cycle.

So 550cc would be sufficient to run E85 @ 300hp on the stock turbo?

Thanks.