Corner Carver Suspension Setup-Street Use Only

[Future240]

While there are tons of threads on suspension for drifting, auot x, and other track items. I have seen much discussion on the street car. We all know the basics, coils, diff, sways, etc. but I wanted to see if we can go beyond that.

I realize I could just buy a bunch of spl arms and install, but that may not be what I need for a street car.

Say for instance if I was going to go up on the dragon's tail or some other mountain bendies, I would want my car to take the corners well, without sacrficing too much comfort.

So here are is my current setup and the issues I have with it

Gen 1 Fortune Auto 500 coils regular springs
suspension techniques front and rear sways
S15 Diff
Yamoto Garage Ruca
All rest Stock Arms
stock wheels
regular road tires
Back end is almost tucking tire, the front has about 1.5" of wheel gap.

My issues are

Car is bouncy over uneven road, especially at highspeed when going over elevation changes like bridges
Will sometimes bottom out in the front over big speed bumps even at slow speed

When turning rear end feels like it is lifting (Ive been told this may just be the torque splitter in the torsen)

I have never pushed the car to its limits because I don't feel comfortable too. I am trying to get the car to be "tighter" in handling and more predictable.

I figured we can discuss our setups, figure out solutions to problems etc in a thread that doesn't talk about modifying the roll center and custom made ruca.

[stunnaben]

Subbed to this.

[e1_griego]

What sort of alignment do you have?

What tires? (tires will cause the biggest improvement in handling). And with more grip the torsen works better (until you get to r-comps, but that's for another discussion).

Honestly the bounce is your $1k coilovers. People don't want to hear it, but a real damper is the core of what makes a suspension 'good.'

Also I prefer stock rear bar (or even no bar) over upgraded rear sway bar.

[kamilitaryman]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

What sort of alignment do you have?

What tires? (tires will cause the biggest improvement in handling).

Honestly the bounce is your $1k coilovers. People don't want to hear it, but a real damper is the core of what makes a suspension 'good.'

This. Your suspension is a bit too stiff for corner carving. You're gonna want to play around with your spring rates and overall shock rebound. Not sure how much adjustability you got left in them, but it doesn't sound like much. Your ride height plays a huge role in your setup as well.

[zooopreme]

Like you, I have my issues with OTS entry level coilovers because they jerked all over the place when it came to public roads in my S13. I've used a ton of different set ups but owned Stance GR+ and Pro Comp (Swifts), Megan Tracks (until they blew), Fortune Autos Gen 2 and 3 (Swifts), and PBM Comps. Since I don't track my car anymore, most of the driving is done on the freeway/city.

Anyway, the BEST lower budget set ups I have driven on were Koni Yellow or Bilstein shocks mated with an appropriate spring rate.

Anyway, here are my suspension specs:
-225/50/16 Z32 NA wheels all around
-VLSD (could be worn out though, lol)
-Stock arms (NO ES bushings) with RLCA in stock position
-Stock subframe with old Nissan bushings
-Z32 rear knuckle and stock rubber bushings
-Stock swaybars with ES bushings
-KYB AGX with coilover sleeves and 7" - 5 kg springs
-Bilstein 3000GT front inserts with coilover sleeves 7" - 6 kg springs

Brakes: Q45 with OEM pads and rotors/S13 rear with OEM pad

It's unfortunate that I went through a ton of different coilovers to get the benefits I wanted. The only thing I do miss is being lower. I could go lower in the rear but because I'm using S14 housings in the front, I can't. Custom housings could bring me a bit lower though.

In terms of Koni, I don't like that Yellows, at least for the rear, are a hassle to adjust which is why I went with AGX. Not quite the same but they are decent enough for AutoX/Spirited Driving. A lot of folks get sucked into that 8611 > 8610 talk but honestly, if you're a weekend driver, Yellows are more than enough. Maybe 8610's in the front, at most.

My current set up isn't the greatest but I didn't spend all that much ($700~) and my car handles real nicely.

To get a more neutral brake feel, I wanted to get Z31 brackets for Altima rears. So if anybody has some, hit me up please! Speaking of this set up, has anybody upgraded their BMC when running Q45 fronts and Altima rears? If so, how does it feel?

[Juantwo3]

I have 3rd FA500 coilovers mine too were bouncy until i adjusted the preload, the bounce was less plus i am about 10 clicks away from full hard i only keep it 10 clicks from full hard when hitting up GMR, street driving about 7 more from full hard. Maybe that will help with your bounce issue.

I agree with the guy above me TIRES make a huge diffrence i dont have the greatest tires out there but for what i use them for they serve better the. Reg tires i use hankook ventis v12 evos on. Z32 wheels


Only issues i have is the front i feel there is to much roll . Maybe i need to upgrade my front sway bar? My front consits of megan endlinks tein inner and outer tie rods steering rack ES bushings and alluminum steering bushing.

Any front end recomendations ?

[e1_griego]

8610s in front and eclipse yellows in back (externally adjustable). Done and done!

Good shocks make for good ride quality. I think this is the point that so many people miss. Bouncy and too stiff =/= performance.

[zooopreme]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

8610s in front and eclipse yellows in back (externally adjustable). Done and done!

Oh, word?

...but that means guys like me gotta go back to the heavier S13 rear knuckles

[e1_griego]

Z32 yellows, then. But same prob as s13, compress to adjust.

Though you set them to full soft or slightly above and never touch them again.

[DJ-of-E]

I usually suggest to take your coilover suspension to Odi @ FEAL if you need an expert advise on suspension. He will literally advised you all the way to best determine what setups would be ideal for track/street/etc.

Any advise over the forum would be too difficult to discuss directly.

Oh wait, you're in Georgia. Call Fortune Auto for advise. They're just as nice and good.

[zooopreme]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Z32 yellows, then. But same prob as s13, compress to adjust.

Though you set them to full soft or slightly above and never touch them again.

This is primarily the reason why I went with the cheaper Z32 AGX's. In comparison to S13 AGX's, they were cheaper and in comparison to Yellows/Sports, they were cheaper too. They may not be up to Koni quality and performance but for street use and some AutoX, this set up is good enough.

**Also worth noting to others with S13's that if you don't want to go with coilover sleeves and want to use stock style lowering springs, Koni and Bilstein inserts (for the front) will allow you to use stock spring perches. And Z32 rear shocks also fit stock style S13 rear springs and stock upper mounts.**

[Future240]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

What sort of alignment do you have?

Stockish. I forget the specs now, but very close to stock.

Originally Posted by e1_griego

What tires? (tires will cause the biggest improvement in handling). And with more grip the torsen works better (until you get to r-comps, but that's for another discussion).

I honestly forget. Right now they are just road tires since I am on stock wheels still.

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Honestly the bounce is your $1k coilovers. People don't want to hear it, but a real damper is the core of what makes a suspension 'good.'.

I don't mind. I kind of figured that had a lot to do with it. I was hoping there was a way to maybe tune this out, or reduce it some.

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Also I prefer stock rear bar (or even no bar) over upgraded rear sway bar.

Why?


I fogot to mention spring rate is 6k/7k on the coils. I have wanted koni's for so long I just don't trust myself to build them right, nor do I want to fool with z32 rear knuckles.

[e1_griego]

z32 knuckle bolts on. It's simple

Konis are also very simple to build, and very well documented on here and NRR.

Rear bar will generally cause you pull rear tire, and with a helical that will cause to spin one tire. Though that's primarily in an autox setting. I have a helical in my hatch with stock rear bar and haven't had any problems unless i manage to pick up the wheel entirely.

[GabeS14]

Fortune auto coils are actually pretty decent, it's when you slam any coil and a basic spring that low that they start acting up...
when going low as long as you order custom valved coils and shorter springs even the cheap ones ride well
I would raise the rear a tiny bit, it's prob the fact its slammed in the rear only and on their basic springs. upgrade to Swift sprigs I have a feeling the bouncyness will dissapear. as for the rest of the corner hugging that's a different issue.
Fortune has amazing custice and if you call them and explain the issue they will recommend the best setings for your ride. I assume he will have revalve your coils and order the shorter springs.and prob get stiffer ones too.

[Future240]

I'm not slammed in anyway. With the z32 I wasn't so much talking about installing them. I meant more the binding issue.

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=253365

[e1_griego]

I didn't realize you had an s14. Either way, some grinding gets you past that.

With an s14, the 3000gt bilstein would be my preference.

[Future240]

I just google that. Interesting stuff. I didn't know blisteins was such a good brand. The last time I looked at the koni option I saw about $1800-2000 worth of parts. I presume that is still the case?

Anybody have anything to say about arms, steering rack, bushings etc?

[Future240]

I just google that. Interesting stuff. I didn't know blisteins was such a good brand. The last time I looked at the koni option I saw about $1800-2000 worth of parts. I presume that is still the case?

Anybody have anything to say about arms, steering rack, bushings etc?

[e1_griego]

Yes, replace it all lol.

BV is the cheaper good option vs spl. Poly bushings are bad in a 240, as the bushings need to move in more than one axis; poly will just bind and tear.

Koni 86 setup is still ~$2k, but you can do it cheaper with yellows. GC will sell you a full kit with 86/yellows for like $1900 that will bolt right in.

Or do the 3000gt bilstiens.

Or fix the rest of the car, buy real tires, get a decent, more performance-oriented alignment and then see how the car is with the susp you have.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by Future240

I just google that. Interesting stuff. I didn't know blisteins was such a good brand. The last time I looked at the koni option I saw about $1800-2000 worth of parts. I presume that is still the case?

Anybody have anything to say about arms, steering rack, bushings etc?

1-I think you could use drop knuckles in the rear....

2-do you get bump steer?

have you been on thread before? I learned a lot of good stuff there:
This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=296725&page=207

[InsTanCeZ]

What's wrong with aftermarket suspension links? I would at least get aftermarket tension rods if nothing else. That will make your suspension feel a lot better.

[DJ-of-E]

Originally Posted by InsTanCeZ

What's wrong with aftermarket suspension links? I would at least get aftermarket tension rods if nothing else. That will make your suspension feel a lot better.

In a lot of legit official classes, aftermarket adjustable link would put you in a modified class that are full of evos, porsches, etc...and yet our cornering at best would be S2000 on stock size tires >_>

[Future240]

Originally Posted by GabeS14

1-I think you could use drop knuckles in the rear....

2-do you get bump steer?

have you been on thread before? I learned a lot of good stuff there:
This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=296725&page=207

Yea. After a while that thread seem to turn more for track cars. I want this thread to be kinda like that one except just for street cars.

[Future240]

Also this is not just about my car. Please post up your setups. Give advice etc.

[e1_griego]

If you're talking street car, classes don't matter.

If you're autocrossing a 240, a stock class or street tire class is not the place that car is going to win anyway, realistically.

The problem with everyone posting their setups is that few people have any experience with proper suspension in an s-chassis. And the point lost on many people is that just because it's a street car doesn't mean you shouldn't be putting in legit suspension on it. Real shocks ride sooooo much better than the JDM pick-your-favorite-color setups.

[tiggertsi]

i'd like some advice. i have the FA500 4th Gen's with 6k and 7k spring rates and think they are alright. The car handles very well. Though eventually I want to go back to a good strut/spring package. I'm an older guy and just wanted to try out some coilovers.

I am not tracking my car in anyway and will only be doing spirited driving on the weekends on twisty country roads in TN. And I was thinking about refreshing all the suspension bushings and components. Where should i start? What should i get? Can I keep the stock arms and just worry about bushing replacement?

i am not a complete noob when it comes to suspension. tho most of my experience is for motorcycle suspension setups and turning older motorcycles that aren't supposed to handle well into knee-draggers.

thanks for posting this thread, this is exactly what i was looking for.

[Future240]

E1_griego mentioned earlier that bushings are good to do just not poly bushings. I would like to redo my subframe in Nismo bushings but I can't find just the bushings.

[tiggertsi]

Originally Posted by Future240

E1_griego mentioned earlier that bushings are good to do just not poly bushings. I would like to redo my subframe in Nismo bushings but I can't find just the bushings.

are there other non-poly bushings besides the nismos? i have already seen and been looking at the energy suspension kit.

[Future240]

I haven't seen any.

Nrr thread on bushings.
http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=2541

[e1_griego]

Subframe bushings are about the only place where poly is acceptable (also maybe RLCA since that's two bushings moving together in one axis).

For the rear susp arms, poly is no bueno.