Post your meth injection setup

[ANVIL]

Highly considering meth injection for my car to get the most out of it. I wanna see what kit you guys are running, how you installed it and basically any and all details related. The local shop im planning to go for a tune is offering an aquamist hsf3 kit with install and dyno tune for $1375.. i might just do that and call it good.

But lets see them setups... more pics the better

[DRFT180]

I've been running the 1 gallon AEM kit for about 2 years now. Car has been running great and with no problems at all from the system. E85 isn't easily available around me, so this is the next best thing in my opinion.

I don't have any pics of the actual system, it's pretty hidden. Tank is in the trunk where the stock jack usually goes, pump is in the spare tire well, lines and controller are hidden and the injector is in the cold pipe maybe 12 inches before the throttle body.

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by DRFT180

I've been running the 1 gallon AEM kit for about 2 years now. Car has been running great and with no problems at all from the system. E85 isn't easily available around me, so this is the next best thing in my opinion.

I don't have any pics of the actual system, it's pretty hidden. Tank is in the trunk where the stock jack usually goes, pump is in the spare tire well, lines and controller are hidden and the injector is in the cold pipe maybe 12 inches before the throttle body.

How were the gains vs before? What base fuel oct are you using? Best pump gas we got up here is 90oct and no e85 available

[DRFT180]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

How were the gains vs before? What base fuel oct are you using? Best pump gas we got up here is 90oct and no e85 available

I don't have a before and after since the KA was turbocharged and the kit was installed at the same time. I'd expect at least a 25-30whp gain from methanol injection as long as you're able to tune for it in timing and fuel.

Fuel is pump 93 octane, using the smallest cc injector in the AEM kit.

Dyno numbers:
@11psi - 320whp/300wtq
@15psi - 365whp/345wtq

Car is daily driven, drifted, autox'd, and road raced in multiple events a year.

[ANVIL]

How often do u need to fill that 1gal tank? And what do you normally use... and what have you tried?

[DRFT180]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

How often do u need to fill that 1gal tank? And what do you normally use... and what have you tried?

During just daily driven use, it'll go through a gallon in maybe 2-3k miles. The highest use comes during road racing when a 20 minute session on track calls for tons of part and full throttle. I'll use 1/2 gallon per session during.

Instead on worrying about doing my own mixing, I just order pre-mixed Boost Juice made by Snow Performance through Summit or Jegs. Is somewhere around $35 for 4 gallons.

The AEM kit uses a progressive controller, so that you can set a starting boost pressure and full flow boost pressure. There is also a separate LED light that can be placed in your field of view. It let's you know when the tank is low, the pump isn't on, or any other type of malfunction is happening.

With the amount of racing that I do, I wouldn't run a modified turbocharged car without it from here on out.

[NISR20MO]

[2muchboost]

I paid $325 for my Devils Own DVC-30 Stage 2. I liked the kit with the progressive controller and upgraded the lines to SS. Quality parts and a good price.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...-stage-2a.html

Only other kit that I have seen used and VERY well is the Alky Control Kit. Lots of domestics guys use this kit with some great results:

http://www.alkycontrol.com/

[blueshark123]

I'm going with alkycontrol since they have a kit for my c6, I plan to use it more for insurance than power when I supercharge my car. I plan to run 100% meth so i don't worry about bad mixtures. Great thing with my car the kit uses the windshield washer tank and once it runs low the car warns me i need more windshield washer fluid lol.

[ANVIL]

Is the aem kit pretty easy to install? Do you have the failsafe software or any other add ons or just the basic kit?

If u tune on a certain mix or brand it ok to switch up? Or do u need to stay the same? 100% meth allow for more aggressive tunes?

[ANVIL]

Most likely going with the aem kit.... found one for a killer deal

[1988montecarloss]

sorry to hijack, but are there gains to be had with a meth injection setup where youre already running the turbo at the top of its efficiency range? say im running my s14 t28 at 17-18psi and want to go higher, could i run 21-22psi safely and gain power without changing the tune in the car?

car is currently running an rs-enthalpy modded stock ecu so i cant just go in and change it on the fly

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by 1988montecarloss

sorry to hijack, but are there gains to be had with a meth injection setup where youre already running the turbo at the top of its efficiency range? say im running my s14 t28 at 17-18psi and want to go higher, could i run 21-22psi safely and gain power without changing the tune in the car?

car is currently running an rs-enthalpy modded stock ecu so i cant just go in and change it on the fly

From what i understand yes. U can tune more aggressively resulting in more power. But ill let others chime in

[1988montecarloss]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

From what i understand yes. U can tune more aggressively resulting in more power. But ill let others chime in

yeah im sure i could if my car had a tunable ecu in it but where it is one set tune and i cant modify the timing myself im not sure

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by 1988montecarloss

sorry to hijack, but are there gains to be had with a meth injection setup where youre already running the turbo at the top of its efficiency range? say im running my s14 t28 at 17-18psi and want to go higher, could i run 21-22psi safely and gain power without changing the tune in the car?

car is currently running an rs-enthalpy modded stock ecu so i cant just go in and change it on the fly

It depends on the ambient temperature, how far away from the engine you inject the methanol/water (you can use 100% distilled water), and how hot the air is coming off the compressor to begin with.

When you inject liquid water, it may now move to gas state, carrying away energy (temperature) when it changes phase. If it changes phase in the plumbing (pre-engine) it can make the air cooler, thus improving compressor efficiency (just like intercooling). Keep in mind we cannot achieve lower temperature than ambient, since our intercooler would then work in reverse, heating our air as it passes through (you would be better off without an intercooler at that point). So there is an optimal position for the water injection site as well as intercooler use/size, and it should be located using several IAT sensors and combinations if the car is serious competition level. Otherwise, many people simply inject it pre-turbo for simplicity and proven benefit to improving compressor mass flow (although whether or not to intercool using it in that location is up for debate) and others opt to inject it near the throttle body, which does not give the water ample opportunity to change phase in the plumbing (not much compressor mass gain) but still helps to lower combustion temperatures, which I discuss in the next paragraph


Next, there is a whole other aspect of injecting water/methanol, that has nothing to do with improving turbo-compressor mass flow (which phase changes in the plumbing achieve, to nearly ambient temp, as we already discussed) And that is phase changes once the valve is closed. A phase change from liquid to gas when the valve is closed (inside the combustion chamber) cannot improve turbocharger mass flow because the charge no longer has access to additional air molecules (because the valve is closed). However, the phase change still carrys away a large amount of energy as the water/meth moves from liquid to gas, thereby lowering combustion chamber temperatures (we see this as reduced EGT) and helping to prevent damaging pressure spikes which occur with increased temperature (detonation, explosive unwanted behavior). The reduced EGT allows us more flexibility with ignition timing and we can get away with using a lower octane fuel (a fuel which would normally be too high of a temperature to behave itself at that point(without the water the reaction moves too quickly and proceeds suddenly with an explosive character) is now losing enough of its energy to phase changing water/meth molecules, so the fuel is safer to use).

Water/meth injection has many benefits and could be used in any turbo/boost application successfully, and even naturally aspirated applications.
Water also tends to clean the combustion chambers up so I regularly spray 100% distilled into all my engines just for that effect.

[KAT-PWR]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

It depends on the ambient temperature, how far away from the engine you inject the methanol/water (you can use 100% distilled water), and how hot the air is coming off the compressor to begin with.

When you inject liquid water, it may now move to gas state, carrying away energy (temperature) when it changes phase. If it changes phase in the plumbing (pre-engine) it can make the air cooler, thus improving compressor efficiency (just like intercooling). Keep in mind we cannot achieve lower temperature than ambient, since our intercooler would then work in reverse, heating our air as it passes through (you would be better off without an intercooler at that point). So there is an optimal position for the water injection site as well as intercooler use/size, and it should be located using several IAT sensors and combinations if the car is serious competition level. Otherwise, many people simply inject it pre-turbo for simplicity and proven benefit to improving compressor mass flow (although whether or not to intercool using it in that location is up for debate) and others opt to inject it near the throttle body, which does not give the water ample opportunity to change phase in the plumbing (not much compressor mass gain) but still helps to lower combustion temperatures, which I discuss in the next paragraph


Next, there is a whole other aspect of injecting water/methanol, that has nothing to do with improving turbo-compressor mass flow (which phase changes in the plumbing achieve, to nearly ambient temp, as we already discussed) And that is phase changes once the valve is closed. A phase change from liquid to gas when the valve is closed (inside the combustion chamber) cannot improve turbocharger mass flow because the charge no longer has access to additional air molecules (because the valve is closed). However, the phase change still carrys away a large amount of energy as the water/meth moves from liquid to gas, thereby lowering combustion chamber temperatures (we see this as reduced EGT) and helping to prevent damaging pressure spikes which occur with increased temperature (detonation, explosive unwanted behavior). The reduced EGT allows us more flexibility with ignition timing and we can get away with using a lower octane fuel (a fuel which would normally be too high of a temperature to behave itself at that point(without the water the reaction moves too quickly and proceeds suddenly with an explosive character) is now losing enough of its energy to phase changing water/meth molecules, so the fuel is safer to use).

Water/meth injection has many benefits and could be used in any turbo/boost application successfully, and even naturally aspirated applications.
Water also tends to clean the combustion chambers up so I regularly spray 100% distilled into all my engines just for that effect.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by KAT-PWR

fun pictures thread

[2muchboost]

That's exactly it. It doesn't add any HP directly but allows for more aggressive tuning similar to how E85 tunes are a bit more aggressive. I won't pretend to know the intricate details of tuning but that's the theory.

[DRFT180]

Anvil is correct. Using meth/water injection, you're able to gain power by lowering the IAT charge temp through water vaporization and the increase in octane with the methanol. In order to capitalize on these benefits, the fuel and ignition timing maps need to be adjusted.

A turbo that is at the end of it's efficiency range may produce slightly more power with increase pressure but it is also increasing air temps on a larger scale too.

So to answer your question, with a non-tuneable ECU you'll run into problems when adding a meth/water injection kit. The car will run rich and bog, also you won't be able to take full advantage of the system. If you were able to adjust the timing and fuel, you would make more power at the same boost pressure, while lowering you IAT's and decreasing your risk of detonation and pre-ignition.

I run an AEM EMS V2.

[1988montecarloss]

Originally Posted by DRFT180

Anvil is correct. Using meth/water injection, you're able to gain power by lowering the IAT charge temp through water vaporization and the increase in octane with the methanol. In order to capitalize on these benefits, the fuel and ignition timing maps need to be adjusted.

A turbo that is at the end of it's efficiency range may produce slightly more power with increase pressure but it is also increasing air temps on a larger scale too.

So to answer your question, with a non-tuneable ECU you'll run into problems when adding a meth/water injection kit. The car will run rich and bog, also you won't be able to take full advantage of the system. If you were able to adjust the timing and fuel, you would make more power at the same boost pressure, while lowering you IAT's and decreasing your risk of detonation and pre-ignition.

I run an AEM EMS V2.

That's the answer I was looking for, thanks!

[ANVIL]

Whered you run you lines DRFT180? I think im gonna do the same for mounting. Seems like the best option by far

[DRFT180]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

Whered you run you lines DRFT180? I think im gonna do the same for mounting. Seems like the best option by far

Controller wiring and box are run through the interior obviously. Meth injection line is run outside of the car from the trunk and along the right side. Following the same path as the fuel hard lines. Into the engine bay, then into the cold pipe.

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by DRFT180

Controller wiring and box are run through the interior obviously. Meth injection line is run outside of the car from the trunk and along the right side. Following the same path as the fuel hard lines. Into the engine bay, then into the cold pipe.

Thanks for sharing and your input. Pretty much gonna do the same thing.

[derass]

As mentioned, one reason for increased HP using meth injection is because of the higher octane rating and therefore increased resistance to detonation. This means more ignition advance can be used in the high-load area of the map, resulting in more power.

[KAT-PWR]

More please

[Kingtal0n]

You just want my secrets





you cant haz my secrets

[KAT-PWR]

I know you have more than that...

[ANVIL]

Not too many running meth injection?

[ANVIL]

Cant beat $200 new only opened to look at

[Zzz89]

I'm using a Devils Own stage 1 kit. I'm not tuned for meth and simply run it as a extra safety measure against detonation. I'm using roughly a 30/70 mixture with afr at 11.5 at WOT.

Only photos I have is the pump mounted on the passenger side of my bumper support right above the windshield water reservoir which I converted to my meth tank.