How about them Cobb Tunes?

[Corbic]

Should have bought an EV lolzzzz

[tuzzio]

Its interesting how the subaru community is so butthurt @ Cobb, instead if actually being butthurt at the EPA. Can't blame Cobb in making the decision of breaking the law and the EPA just shutting down their company, or playing by the rules.

Although, previously working at a Subaru aftermarket based company.... I'm very familiar with butthurt subaru owners

[OLC__BRIAN]

^ Definitely agree they're getting angry at the wrong people. Although I would be kinda pissed if I had recently bought an accessport and have not had it installed yet as it's now a useless paperweight.

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by OLC__BRIAN

Although I would be kinda pissed if I had recently bought an accessport and have not had it installed yet as it's now a useless paperweight.

I don't think its a useless paperweight. I think it will be EPA compliant with April of 2022 mandates, and their software is being restricted from certain things to be modified or adjusted.

I imagine the standalone market is going to get massive increases in sales now.

[OLC__BRIAN]

I haven't read about it too much so I could be wrong but the new update seems to limit pretty much everything. Can't raise boost, can't change injectors, can't adjust fuel/timing, can't disable any code etc.

But yea hopefully this doesn't make stand alone prices go through the roof.

[BryanSayWhat]

Can't they just bypass all of this shit by saying it's for "Offroad Use Only"?

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Can't they just bypass all of this shit by saying it's for "Offroad Use Only"?

I believe their accessports stated that previously. I imagine it has a lot to do with inspection laws.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Can't they just bypass all of this shit by saying it's for "Offroad Use Only"?

This has always been a grey area that the EPA has taken a sterner look at recently, hence SEMA fighting back with the RPM Act.

The EPA's position is that a device which defeats or violates emissions controls in a production car is illegal even if the part is only intended to be used in a race car. To put a finer point on it, the EPA does not believe that the use case of building a race car from a production car justifies the existence of parts that can be used to break the law in a production car.

This is a huge change of mindset that's taken place slowly over the past 5 years or so. It started with the diesel tuners since, whatever your stand on the issue, coal rollers were causing lots of quality of life complaints, a lot of "can't the EPA do more about this?" Hence also why companies that make piggybacks and plug'n'play tunes have been the first to get hit in the gas engine tuner world.

[ZenkiKid]

IMO this only really impacts the high horsepower bois. Even then those people really should ve going stand alone anyway. The casual enthusiast who just want a simple increase in fun factor shouldnt be phased by this at all

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

I imagine it has a lot to do with inspection laws.

Originally Posted by AKADriver

This is a huge change of mindset that's taken place slowly over the past 5 years or so. It started with the diesel tuners since, whatever your stand on the issue, coal rollers were causing lots of quality of life complaints, a lot of "can't the EPA do more about this?" Hence also why companies that make piggybacks and plug'n'play tunes have been the first to get hit in the gas engine tuner world.

Damn, coal rollers... What's next? Can't modify your suspension, because of the hideous "Carolina Squat" people?

[AKADriver]

Lifted trucks have always been the target of suspension modification laws that end up catching lowered cars, those are always just state laws though. My state specifically bans the carolina squat by name, but I bet if you had a drag car set up like a '50s gasser it would fall under the definition.

It's both inspections and street enforcement for visible stuff like suspension. Maryland doesn't have annual safety inspections - only when the car changes hands - but they ticket heavily for safety violations.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by ZenkiKid

IMO this only really impacts the high horsepower bois. Even then those people really should ve going stand alone anyway. The casual enthusiast who just want a simple increase in fun factor shouldnt be phased by this at all

It only directly affects those people in the middle that want cars that have street manners but no longer meet emissions - but honestly that's an important market for aftermarket companies and they know it. Yeah, it doesn't affect the casual owner who just wants to plug in the tuner and maybe throw on a catback which is probably most of Cobb's actual sales, but the people who really push the limits of what a Cobb tuner can do are the ones that build the brand's reputation.

[!Zar!]

I hope this lights a fire under COBB to work on providing C.A.R.B legal tunes.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Damn, coal rollers... What's next? Can't modify your suspension, because of the hideous "Carolina Squat" people?

On the way home from dropping the 5th grader off at school here in central NC, I saw a squatted Ram with two troopers on him and chuckled as I continued on my journey.
Fuck those guys

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

Its interesting how the subaru community is so butthurt @ Cobb, instead if actually being butthurt at the EPA. Can't blame Cobb in making the decision of breaking the law and the EPA just shutting down their company, or playing by the rules.

Although, previously working at a Subaru aftermarket based company.... I'm very familiar with butthurt subaru owners

It's not what they did, it's how they did it.

1. They continued to sell E85 kits up until the announcement even though they've likely known for a year that those kits would be bricked once the update pushes out.

2. They are trying to spin this as a big "We love Green!" move, rather than - "EPA fucked us". So yes, it's on them.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I hope this lights a fire under COBB to work on providing C.A.R.B legal tunes.

In 5 years factory tunes won't even be CARB legal.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

It only directly affects those people in the middle that want cars that have street manners but no longer meet emissions - but honestly that's an important market for aftermarket companies and they know it. Yeah, it doesn't affect the casual owner who just wants to plug in the tuner and maybe throw on a catback which is probably most of Cobb's actual sales, but the people who really push the limits of what a Cobb tuner can do are the ones that build the brand's reputation.

It also impacts anyone wanting to run Flex-Fuel, E85 and the GTR boys wanting to flip over to speed density.

None of those features would cause a car to no longer meet emissions - in the sense of actually passing an actual pipe-test.

That's the problem with this EPA over-reach. It literally has nothing to do with air-quality and everything to do with just "DO AS I SAY!"

They have no data to support a E85 Tuned STI is causing more pollution then a stock STI on 91. They have no information showing Speed-Density is releasing more emissions then MAF.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ZenkiKid

IMO this only really impacts the high horsepower bois. Even then those people really should ve going stand alone anyway. The casual enthusiast who just want a simple increase in fun factor shouldnt be phased by this at all

Disagree.

If you own a stock STI and want to run E85 which will net a solid gain in power, this effects you. You wasting a shit ton of money for nothing now.

I thought we wanted people to go to alternative cleaner fuels?

I guess we need to subsidize the lithium strip mining industry in Africa and China.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by Corbic

INone of those features would cause a car to no longer meet emissions - in the sense of actually passing an actual pipe-test.

Passing an annual tailpipe test is not the same as the extensive certification OEMs go through and does not cover most driving conditions. Tailpipe tests are a spot check meant for catching broken cars.

They have no data to support a E85 Tuned STI is causing more pollution then a stock STI on 91. They have no information showing Speed-Density is releasing more emissions then MAF.

And you have no data that it wouldn't, therefore the rules default to you can't change it unless you have the more extensive testing to prove that overall emissions are still within limits. If you can do that, provide the data, the part can get a CARB EO.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I thought we wanted people to go to alternative cleaner fuels?

Ethanol is a boondoggle, not a 'clean fuel'. Farming the crops and then producing the fuel takes as much fossil energy as it displaces.

A proper E85 tune shouldn't increase emissions as it's just replacing one fuel for a cooler running, oxygen-bearing one; tuned correctly it can make more power and the same emissions. But again, if you can do that, run the full gamut of EPA tests and get an EO#.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Ethanol is a boondoggle, not a 'clean fuel'. Farming the crops and then producing the fuel takes as much fossil energy as it displaces.

And yet EVs get a pass despite requiring strip mining third world countries for highly toxic materials, processing them in highly toxic off shore plants then charging them with coal burned furnaces that transmit power over a grid that loses up to 80% of the power generated.

All of those while helping enrich the despots of the world.

E85 is a win-win since we net produce more corn then needed and it subsidizes farming without actually having to just cut them checks to stop growing or destroying crops.

It would be great if we just took all the High-Fructose Corn Syrup out of the food industry and burned it as fuel.

Originally Posted by AKADriver

A proper E85 tune shouldn't increase emissions as it's just replacing one fuel for a cooler running, oxygen-bearing one; tuned correctly it can make more power and the same emissions. But again, if you can do that, run the full gamut of EPA tests and get an EO#.

Yes... The 5,000 E85 tuned STI's are such a huge environmental impact we need to crush an entire industry for it. The 10 largest container ships in the world pollute more then all the cars in the world combined. I'm sure legalizing pot has more carbon emissions then all the Subarus in the US.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by Corbic

And yet EVs get a pass despite requiring strip mining third world countries for highly toxic materials, processing them in highly toxic off shore plants then charging them with coal burned furnaces that transmit power over a grid that loses up to 80% of the power generated.

All of those while helping enrich the despots of the world.

E85 is a win-win since we net produce more corn then needed and it subsidizes farming without actually having to just cut them checks to stop growing or destroying crops.

It would be great if we just took all the High-Fructose Corn Syrup out of the food industry and burned it as fuel.



Yes... The 5,000 E85 tuned STI's are such a huge environmental impact we need to crush an entire industry for it. The 10 largest container ships in the world pollute more then all the cars in the world combined. I'm sure legalizing pot has more carbon emissions then all the Subarus in the US.

Shhhhh.

When you try to talk to people about emissions and the environment and explain how cars today from most 1st world countries cause far less harm than boat and plane travel (LOL - billionaires love the planes though you know) they kind of lock up.

This isn't directed at AKA in particular at all, just as a general sense. No critical thinking among 99% of the people that just blindly screech about cars and emissions.

Also, Corbic - we don't always agree, but good call on subsidizing the farm industry. Actually a point I never thought about. I am no E85 guy, but that is an interesting point.

Originally Posted by Phlip

On the way home from dropping the 5th grader off at school here in central NC, I saw a squatted Ram with two troopers on him and chuckled as I continued on my journey.
Fuck those guys

I mean, I agree in part I don't like that "scene", BUT be careful about supporting the slippery slope of cracking down on modified cars of any spectrum. It will all end up affecting every facet of car modification. The slippery slope of laws, historically through almost every society is a pretty clear indicator of this.

Originally Posted by Corbic

It also impacts anyone wanting to run Flex-Fuel, E85 and the GTR boys wanting to flip over to speed density.

None of those features would cause a car to no longer meet emissions - in the sense of actually passing an actual pipe-test.

That's the problem with this EPA over-reach. It literally has nothing to do with air-quality and everything to do with just "DO AS I SAY!"

They have no data to support a E85 Tuned STI is causing more pollution then a stock STI on 91. They have no information showing Speed-Density is releasing more emissions then MAF.

As I alluded to in the beginning of this post. People just blindly follow their political religion (yes, for most people politics has become a religion today) and do what their political party locks steps about. Same BS for stuff like EV. It's all "end pollution" and "the environment"... meanwhile, plastic is a petroleum based product, batteries are mega pollutants, the energy grid is certainly not capable of this, etc. But nobody actually questions the ideas.

Sigh.

Oh well.

[tuzzio]

Mikey Botti just tuned a subaru to over 500 WHP on a "green tune".

This is still annoying, and a step toward the EPA taking away all the fun.