VERY LONG Rebuild Parts List. Please tell me what I can add/take off it. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

DamnedButDetermined · 10-28-2003, 10:52 AM

I was looking at a Toyota Factory service manual and located all of the wear items and parts that might begin to leak over time and made a large list of everything. I know some of the parts are going to have different names, but that was the only manual i have right now because i work there. It was from a DOHC engine though. I am pretty sure that I have a lot of unneccessary parts on this list and that is what the experts are for. So without further adue (sp?)

Engine Block

low compression pistons
Piston rings/expanders
piston Pins
Piston snap rings
connecting rods
connecting rod bushings
connecting rod bearings
connecting rod bolts/nuts
crankshaft bearings
crankshaft thrust washers
crankshaft front oil seal
crankshaft rear oil seal
rear oil seal retainer gasket
rear oil seal retainer--- Do you think this will be warped at all?
oil pump---Would it make any difference to upgrade this from stock?
oil pump gasket
water pump---Would it make any difference to upgrade this from stock?
water pump o-ring
water pump gaskets
oil pan gasket
drain plug gaskets
oil filter assembly---gasket, o-ring, oil cooler, plate washer, releif valve, oil filter

Cylinder Head

valve cover gasket
spark plug grommets
PCV valve
PVC valve grommet
intake/exhaust valves
valve guide bushings
spring seats
oils seals
valve springs
spring retainers
keepers
valve lifters
adjusting shims
camshaft bearing caps
camshaft oil seals
cylinder head bolts
cylinder head gasket
timming chain kit

k that was a long list and i know there are things on there that are not needed so please share your experiences.

This rebuild will be for either a 91 105K miles or 97 130K miles KA.

Can you please share where you bought the parts for your rebuild and how much you spent? I have only found two places online and theye seem a little expensive. www.ka24de.com and http://www.rpmrons.com/index.html

What company do you trust the most in rebuild parts?

What other services should i have done to the engine block and cylinder head while I have them disassembled?

thank you for your time,
DbD

cdlong · 10-28-2003, 01:07 PM

what is this rebuild for? are you adding a turbo? if so, how much power are you going for? a lot of people don't rebuild the engine, it costs a lot to do it right and KAs are all over the place anyway.

that list seems a little excessive, like the PCV valve grommet? i would only replace the seals needed to keep the oil and coolant in the right place, the parts needed to drop the compression, and anything that's broken. the oil and water pumps are a good idea though.

kandyflip445 · 10-28-2003, 07:09 PM

Well, for the most part, if you are getting your build done by a good mech. then have him measure everything according to the FSM. Anything that isn't in spec or doesn't look to be reliable(or stuff that has gone wrong commonly with other 240's) you should replace. If it's in spec and checks out then just leave it. IMO you should get your head port&polished. I would do it...but that's just me.

I'd also look into cryo-treating some random stuff.

DamnedButDetermined · 11-02-2003, 01:46 PM

Thanks to DeviousKA for helping me out. This what he recommends...

Engine Block

low compression pistons NEED IF YOUR GOING THAT ROUTE
Piston rings/expanders NEED
piston Pins NEED
Piston snap rings NEED
connecting rods NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
connecting rod bushings MACHINE SHOP WILL DETERMINE
connecting rod bearings NEED
connecting rod bolts/nuts NOT NECESSARY, UNLESS DAMAGED OR UPGRADE
crankshaft bearings NEED
crankshaft thrust washers BUILT INTO BEARING ON KA
crankshaft front oil seal NEED
crankshaft rear oil seal NEED
rear oil seal retainer gasket NEED
rear oil seal retainer--- NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
oil pump---NO, UNLESS DAMAGED OR UPGRADE
oil pump gasket NEED
water pump---NEED
water pump NEED
water pump gaskets NEED
oil pan gasket NEED
drain plug gaskets NO
oil filter assembly-- JUST NEED THE GASKET

Cylinder Head

valve cover gasket NEED
spark plug grommets NEED
PCV valve NEED
PVC valve grommet NEED
intake/exhaust valves NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
valve guide bushings MACHINE SHOP WILL DETERMINE
spring seats NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
oils seals NEED
valve springs NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
spring retainers NO, UNLESS DAMAGED
keepers NO LIKE ABOVE
valve lifters ONLY IF DAMAGED/MAKING NOISE
adjusting shims NO, THE ONES ON YOUR HEAD, IF IN ORDER, ARE FINE
camshaft bearing caps NO
camshaft oil seals NEED
cylinder head bolts I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND, BUT NOT NECESSARY
cylinder head gasket NEED
timming chain kit NEED

I am wondering if anyone else who has rebuilt their ka has actually replaced their...
spark plug grommets NEED
PCV valve NEED
PVC valve grommet NEED
And if they have were did they get the grommets? Dealership or aftermarket?

Has anyone found reliable forged pistons/rods that were pretty cheap? I know this isn't something to totally skimp out on but if something else will do the trick for less then I would rather do that. Most of you will probably tell me to stick with www.ka24de.com

If you don't mind please take a look at these rebuild kits and tell me if you have any experiance with topline rebuild products. DeviousKA told me I would kind the best prices at a local rebuild shop, but i am still looking on the web to make sure there isn't a cheaper way. http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...ginekits2.html

Looking at the Toga main and rod bearing upgrade and it says they are available in Standard, 10 over and 20 over. You can mix the main and rod sizes. What would changing the sizes in bearings do and what would have to be done to get a set of 20/20 over? would it take extra machine work?

Thanks for your time,
DbD

deviousKA · 11-03-2003, 12:27 AM

Forged pistons/rods are always going to cost a grip. dont expect to pay less than 100 per piston and 150-200 per rod, and then rings. Do you want to lower your compression? or want oem spec pistons? You can get "premium" pistons that cost more the regular cast and not as much as forged. Machinist will tell you what you need as far as main and rod bearings, they shouldnt have to go 20 under unless there is damage or it is very worn (you dont want to have to grind the crank to much unless necessary). If those toga bearings cost much more than aftermarket oem equivalent, i wouldnt buy them and save the money. OEM type bearings (many aftermarket manuf.) properly installed with mic'd/ground crankshaft with proper size can withstand plenty of horsepower and longevity.

DamnedButDetermined · 11-03-2003, 07:33 AM

I am looking to go with 9.0:1 pistons that way i can have a little more torque in the low rpms, but not too much comp as to bring on early detonation. I have been reading about alky injection, and it seems like a very good way to keep intake temp down when I want to run anything higher than 10psi. Normally 10psi wouldn't have a problem with detonation using 8.5:1 pistons, but I don't want to take the chance ecspecially because I live in florida (hotter than hell summers) and I only want to take my engine apart once.

So when they are talking about going 10/20 over for the bearings that is grinding the crank not the block, huh?

The Toga bearings are going to be an extra $40 for performance rod/main bearings.

What would you suggest in the way of premium pistons? Would they be more expensive if you wanted to get them in a different comp ratio than stock?

Do they make premium rods as well? or should I stick with forged on that?

thanks again for your help,
DbD

Steeles · 11-03-2003, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamnedButDetermined
I was looking at a Toyota Factory service manual

hmmm I'd recommend ditching the toyota manual and getting a Nissan one

deviousKA · 11-03-2003, 11:22 AM

the stock ka24de is 9.3-9.5:1 cr or so correct? many people use stock pistons i think you should go with those. I dont know the exact cc of dish on z24i pistons but those could possibly lower your compression a bit. Premium pistons dont cost to much more, my distributor doesnt carry them yet but it looks like they are on the to do list http://www.itmengine.com/pistons.html . You dont need premium rods, seriously, yours if in un-damaged condition should be able to withstand lots of hp.

btw. yes the main and rod journals of the crank would be ground, not the block or rods. So it would become "undersized" and need the appropriate sized bearings.

DamnedButDetermined · 11-03-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steeles
hmmm I'd recommend ditching the toyota manual and getting a Nissan one

Thanks

91rusty240sx · 11-14-2003, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by deviousKA
the stock ka24de is 9.3-9.5:1 cr or so correct?

its 9.5:1

10-28-2003, 10:52 AM	#1
DamnedButDetermined Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Jax, Fl Age: 43 Posts: 637 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	VERY LONG Rebuild Parts List. Please tell me what I can add/take off it. I was looking at a Toyota Factory service manual and located all of the wear items and parts that might begin to leak over time and made a large list of everything. I know some of the parts are going to have different names, but that was the only manual i have right now because i work there. It was from a DOHC engine though. I am pretty sure that I have a lot of unneccessary parts on this list and that is what the experts are for. So without further adue (sp?) Engine Block low compression pistons Piston rings/expanders piston Pins Piston snap rings connecting rods connecting rod bushings connecting rod bearings connecting rod bolts/nuts crankshaft bearings crankshaft thrust washers crankshaft front oil seal crankshaft rear oil seal rear oil seal retainer gasket rear oil seal retainer--- Do you think this will be warped at all? oil pump---Would it make any difference to upgrade this from stock? oil pump gasket water pump---Would it make any difference to upgrade this from stock? water pump o-ring water pump gaskets oil pan gasket drain plug gaskets oil filter assembly---gasket, o-ring, oil cooler, plate washer, releif valve, oil filter Cylinder Head valve cover gasket spark plug grommets PCV valve PVC valve grommet intake/exhaust valves valve guide bushings spring seats oils seals valve springs spring retainers keepers valve lifters adjusting shims camshaft bearing caps camshaft oil seals cylinder head bolts cylinder head gasket timming chain kit k that was a long list and i know there are things on there that are not needed so please share your experiences. This rebuild will be for either a 91 105K miles or 97 130K miles KA. Can you please share where you bought the parts for your rebuild and how much you spent? I have only found two places online and theye seem a little expensive. www.ka24de.com and http://www.rpmrons.com/index.html What company do you trust the most in rebuild parts? What other services should i have done to the engine block and cylinder head while I have them disassembled? thank you for your time, DbD

10-28-2003, 01:07 PM	#2
cdlong Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Age: 44 Posts: 1,865 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: cdlong Feedback Score: 0 reviews	what is this rebuild for? are you adding a turbo? if so, how much power are you going for? a lot of people don't rebuild the engine, it costs a lot to do it right and KAs are all over the place anyway. that list seems a little excessive, like the PCV valve grommet? i would only replace the seals needed to keep the oil and coolant in the right place, the parts needed to drop the compression, and anything that's broken. the oil and water pumps are a good idea though. __________________

10-28-2003, 07:09 PM	#3
kandyflip445 Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Arden, NC Age: 40 Posts: 4,460 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: kandyflip445 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Well, for the most part, if you are getting your build done by a good mech. then have him measure everything according to the FSM. Anything that isn't in spec or doesn't look to be reliable(or stuff that has gone wrong commonly with other 240's) you should replace. If it's in spec and checks out then just leave it. IMO you should get your head port&polished. I would do it...but that's just me. I'd also look into cryo-treating some random stuff. __________________ My 240 vBgarage

11-02-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
DamnedButDetermined Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Jax, Fl Age: 43 Posts: 637 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Thanks to DeviousKA for helping me out. This what he recommends... Engine Block low compression pistons NEED IF YOUR GOING THAT ROUTE Piston rings/expanders NEED piston Pins NEED Piston snap rings NEED connecting rods NO, UNLESS DAMAGED connecting rod bushings MACHINE SHOP WILL DETERMINE connecting rod bearings NEED connecting rod bolts/nuts NOT NECESSARY, UNLESS DAMAGED OR UPGRADE crankshaft bearings NEED crankshaft thrust washers BUILT INTO BEARING ON KA crankshaft front oil seal NEED crankshaft rear oil seal NEED rear oil seal retainer gasket NEED rear oil seal retainer--- NO, UNLESS DAMAGED oil pump---NO, UNLESS DAMAGED OR UPGRADE oil pump gasket NEED water pump---NEED water pump NEED water pump gaskets NEED oil pan gasket NEED drain plug gaskets NO oil filter assembly-- JUST NEED THE GASKET Cylinder Head valve cover gasket NEED spark plug grommets NEED PCV valve NEED PVC valve grommet NEED intake/exhaust valves NO, UNLESS DAMAGED valve guide bushings MACHINE SHOP WILL DETERMINE spring seats NO, UNLESS DAMAGED oils seals NEED valve springs NO, UNLESS DAMAGED spring retainers NO, UNLESS DAMAGED keepers NO LIKE ABOVE valve lifters ONLY IF DAMAGED/MAKING NOISE adjusting shims NO, THE ONES ON YOUR HEAD, IF IN ORDER, ARE FINE camshaft bearing caps NO camshaft oil seals NEED cylinder head bolts I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND, BUT NOT NECESSARY cylinder head gasket NEED timming chain kit NEED I am wondering if anyone else who has rebuilt their ka has actually replaced their... spark plug grommets NEED PCV valve NEED PVC valve grommet NEED And if they have were did they get the grommets? Dealership or aftermarket? Has anyone found reliable forged pistons/rods that were pretty cheap? I know this isn't something to totally skimp out on but if something else will do the trick for less then I would rather do that. Most of you will probably tell me to stick with www.ka24de.com If you don't mind please take a look at these rebuild kits and tell me if you have any experiance with topline rebuild products. DeviousKA told me I would kind the best prices at a local rebuild shop, but i am still looking on the web to make sure there isn't a cheaper way. http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...ginekits2.html Looking at the Toga main and rod bearing upgrade and it says they are available in Standard, 10 over and 20 over. You can mix the main and rod sizes. What would changing the sizes in bearings do and what would have to be done to get a set of 20/20 over? would it take extra machine work? Thanks for your time, DbD Last edited by DamnedButDetermined; 11-02-2003 at 02:02 PM..

11-03-2003, 11:22 AM	#8
deviousKA Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the stock ka24de is 9.3-9.5:1 cr or so correct? many people use stock pistons i think you should go with those. I dont know the exact cc of dish on z24i pistons but those could possibly lower your compression a bit. Premium pistons dont cost to much more, my distributor doesnt carry them yet but it looks like they are on the to do list http://www.itmengine.com/pistons.html . You dont need premium rods, seriously, yours if in un-damaged condition should be able to withstand lots of hp. btw. yes the main and rod journals of the crank would be ground, not the block or rods. So it would become "undersized" and need the appropriate sized bearings. Last edited by deviousKA; 11-03-2003 at 11:29 AM..

11-03-2003, 12:27 AM	#5
deviousKA Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Forged pistons/rods are always going to cost a grip. dont expect to pay less than 100 per piston and 150-200 per rod, and then rings. Do you want to lower your compression? or want oem spec pistons? You can get "premium" pistons that cost more the regular cast and not as much as forged. Machinist will tell you what you need as far as main and rod bearings, they shouldnt have to go 20 under unless there is damage or it is very worn (you dont want to have to grind the crank to much unless necessary). If those toga bearings cost much more than aftermarket oem equivalent, i wouldnt buy them and save the money. OEM type bearings (many aftermarket manuf.) properly installed with mic'd/ground crankshaft with proper size can withstand plenty of horsepower and longevity.

11-03-2003, 07:33 AM	#6
DamnedButDetermined Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Jax, Fl Age: 43 Posts: 637 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I am looking to go with 9.0:1 pistons that way i can have a little more torque in the low rpms, but not too much comp as to bring on early detonation. I have been reading about alky injection, and it seems like a very good way to keep intake temp down when I want to run anything higher than 10psi. Normally 10psi wouldn't have a problem with detonation using 8.5:1 pistons, but I don't want to take the chance ecspecially because I live in florida (hotter than hell summers) and I only want to take my engine apart once. So when they are talking about going 10/20 over for the bearings that is grinding the crank not the block, huh? The Toga bearings are going to be an extra $40 for performance rod/main bearings. What would you suggest in the way of premium pistons? Would they be more expensive if you wanted to get them in a different comp ratio than stock? Do they make premium rods as well? or should I stick with forged on that? thanks again for your help, DbD