Ben Stein Unlocked!

[ThePenIsMightier]

I support the troops as individuals fighting to survive, but I don't see how they're protecting my freedom, and 99.8% of the rest of us here in the U.S.A.'s freedom. The only way our lives are in danger from what we've seen in the recent past is terrorism. Do you fear terrorism? If you do then doesn't that mean the war was lost? Oh no!

I also think it's funny how the attitude is all America!!, but the politics of this board have that totalitarian vibe.

I support the troops. I hope they live. But they signed up for it knowing what they'd be fighting for. I won't participate in a war to horde resources.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

We shouldnt be silencing the obviously trite and ignorant.

By silencing everyone simply by disagreeing with politics concerns over our current foriegn policy we arent any better than Iran.

I don't know all the details on the Banning's but I have a feeling it was not for the sake of allowing a balanced display of points of views.

but then again its a private forum...so its their choice

Conspiracy theorize much?

Come on Steve, we're not Fox News and I'm not Bill O'Reilly. Nobody is going to shut you down because they don't agree with you.

Nobody got banned because of their views or opinions.

I'm actually getting irritated at this sort of cockamamie BS theorizing.

All users were banned for rule violations, not for differences of opinion.

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

I support the troops as individuals fighting to survive, but I don't see how they're protecting my freedom, and 99.8% of the rest of us here in the U.S.A.'s freedom. The only way our lives are in danger from what we've seen in the recent past is terrorism. Do you fear terrorism? If you do then doesn't that mean the war was lost? Oh no!

I also think it's funny how the attitude is all America!!, but the politics of this board have that totalitarian vibe.

I support the troops. I hope they live. But they signed up for it knowing what they'd be fighting for. I won't participate in a war to horde resources.

I'm sure you think you're a smart guy.

Clearly you can't read before you type though, because I've covered one of the points you've raised.

THE CONCEPT OF SUPPORTING TROOPS IS THAT IT'S DONE REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION THEY'RE IN.

Not sure how I can spell that out any more clearly.

Now to address another issue you've raised - the concept of the servicemember's duty to protect freedom, etc.
That's the primary duty of a servicemember. That's the MAIN reason they've been enlisted (or commissioned).
Part of that job means you follow the orders given to you by those in your chain of command. The only time when it's permissible to disobey those orders is when they're clearly illegal orders (go kill that baby/go rape that woman, etc). Foreign policy decisions are not within the purview of any servicemember to question. While you may not agree with that, those are the rules we play by.

As far as why the war started and what America's goal was behind it - I can't say. I don't agree with the war (though it is nice to have Saddam out of power), and I want us out of that quagmire ASAP.

The reason this forum isn't a democracy is simple. This is a private forum. It's privately owned, and staffed by volunteers. If we allowed users to elect moderators, then the owner wouldn't have as much control over his property. Last time I checked, Best Buy wasn't keen on having customers pick their managers and employees.
Zilvia is free to use, but we still like to think of users as customers, with the goal of providing a good experience (product). In order to make that experience nice for all, we have rules established for users to abide by, and terms that they must agree with. Sometimes users fail to abide by these rules and are subject to administrative action.
Any business would do the same to anyone who cause their other customers to have a negative experience.

Your suggestion that Zilvia is a totalitarian state, or others' that it's a Nazi state, etc are just plain ignorant and immature.

We're not unreasonable here, we just have a low tolerance for BS.

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

...Your suggestion that Zilvia is a totalitarian state, or others' that it's a Nazi state, etc are just plain ignorant and immature...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXM9IzZcFME[/ame]

[ThePenIsMightier]

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

Nobody got banned because of their views or opinions.

Looking through the original thread, nearly every person who had an opinion other than Ben Stein's was banned. No porn posts. No advertising. Just thought I'd point that out.

Now to address your unfounded personal attack on myself...

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

I'm sure you think you're a smart guy.

Clearly you can't read before you type though, because I've covered one of the points you've raised.

THE CONCEPT OF SUPPORTING TROOPS IS THAT IT'S DONE REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION THEY'RE IN.

Not sure how I can spell that out any more clearly.

You can read too. You just chose not to read the first sentence in the first and last paragraphs of my previous post. Here let me reiterate. I support the troops. I cannot imagine being one, and that's why I live in Dallas. I don't like hurting people blah blah blah war is stupid. I still support the troops. No need explaining anything to me. I can read.

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

Now to address another issue you've raised - the concept of the servicemember's duty to protect freedom, etc.
That's the primary duty of a servicemember. That's the MAIN reason they've been enlisted (or commissioned).
Part of that job means you follow the orders given to you by those in your chain of command. The only time when it's permissible to disobey those orders is when they're clearly illegal orders (go kill that baby/go rape that woman, etc). Foreign policy decisions are not within the purview of any servicemember to question. While you may not agree with that, those are the rules we play by.

Thank you for that insight. I know.

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

As far as why the war started and what America's goal was behind it - I can't say. I don't agree with the war (though it is nice to have Saddam out of power), and I want us out of that quagmire ASAP.

Well we can make our own conjectures about why we started a war on terror in Afghanistan and ended up in Iraq. It seems obvious to me, but I can't be certain.

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

The reason this forum isn't a democracy is simple. This is a private forum. It's privately owned, and staffed by volunteers. If we allowed users to elect moderators, then the owner wouldn't have as much control over his property. Last time I checked, Best Buy wasn't keen on having customers pick their managers and employees.
Zilvia is free to use, but we still like to think of users as customers, with the goal of providing a good experience (product). In order to make that experience nice for all, we have rules established for users to abide by, and terms that they must agree with. Sometimes users fail to abide by these rules and are subject to administrative action.
Any business would do the same to anyone who cause their other customers to have a negative experience.

Your suggestion that Zilvia is a totalitarian state, or others' that it's a Nazi state, etc are just plain ignorant and immature.

We're not unreasonable here, we just have a low tolerance for BS.

Understood, but Best Buy isn't a discussion forum. It's a retail store. Here we come to discuss whatever is on our minds. When discussing whatever, opinions often rise. Saying you are making this place better by silencing opinions that differ from your own is well...

an opinion. It makes the place better for you, but you aren't a "customer".

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

Looking through the original thread, nearly every person who had an opinion other than Ben Stein's was banned. No porn posts. No advertising. Just thought I'd point that out.

Indeed. It was a matter of personal attacks, and failing to follow forum rules.

Now to address your unfounded personal attack on myself...

The sardonic nature of my accusation wasn't clear, and I've only myself to blame. It's entirely obvious to anyone following along that yes, indeed, you are capable of reading.

You can read too. You just chose not to read the first sentence in the first and last paragraphs of my previous post. Here let me reiterate. I support the troops. I cannot imagine being one, and that's why I live in Dallas. I don't like hurting people blah blah blah war is stupid. I still support the troops. No need explaining anything to me. I can read.

I certainly did read it and replied to it.
I never accused you of not supporting the troops (and in fact made no comment on anyone's preference on the matter) - simply that you did not understand the purpose of the 'movement', if you will. You made that clear when you said you didn't understand how US servicemembers in Iraq were defending yours or others' freedom. I explained that it's without regard to where they are and what they're doing that their primary job is the defense of the nation.

I don't follow what you mean about your decision to live in Dallas because you don't want to serve in the armed forces.

Thank you for that insight. I know.

Sorry if I broke it down Barney-style for you there, but you clearly stated in that first sentence that you didn't understand the situation. I was merely trying to help.

Well we can make our own conjectures about why we started a war on terror in Afghanistan and ended up in Iraq. It seems obvious to me, but I can't be certain.

Agreed. In the end, it'll still only be conjecture. What we should be concerning ourselves with at this point is the election of a better leader and pressuring our representatives to resolve the situation. Much as blame needs to be heaped around, pointing fingers does nobody any good right now.

Understood, but Best Buy isn't a discussion forum. It's a retail store. Here we come to discuss whatever is on our minds. When discussing whatever, opinions often rise. Saying you are making this place better by silencing opinions that differ from your own is well...

an opinion. It makes the place better for you, but you aren't a "customer".

I know. I simply couldn't conjure up a better comparison on short notice.
This forum isn't necessarily to discuss ''whatever is on our minds", but primarily a place to discuss the 240sx, with an OT forum for flavor.
Opinions are fine and welcome, so long as they're presented appropriately.
For the umpteenth time, we're not making an effort to 'silence opinions' - it's a matter of keeping the forums a nice place to be. How can you possibly blame me for the fact that the people banned weren't capable of controlling their emotions sufficient to continuing an argument?
Again, it's not a matter of making it a better place for *ME*, it's for the general public. If I was the kind of admin you're painting me as, I'd be deleting users and posts willy-nilly and you'd never even know that anyone disagreed with me. It's irritating that people enjoy taking moderation personally and will without fail, make the mod/admin out to be a power-crazed jerk.

In the end, it's a private forum open to registration pending agreement to a set of rules designed to keep the forum running smoothly. It's not a democracy and freedom of speech is not a given. Given that all of the admin/mod staff is American (and some of us have served in the military), we tend to support the ideals our nation was founded on. We don't, however, stop ourselves from eliminating a problematic user if it means editing a post or banning them.

I believe in one's freedom of speech, and prefer to let people's opinions air freely. I cannot abide personal attacks though, and users that break forum rules cannot be left unchecked. If you sincerely have a problem with our handling of our forum, we suggest you seek comfort elsewhere.

[EndLeSS8]

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

I believe in one's freedom of speech, and prefer to let people's opinions air freely. I cannot abide personal attacks though, and users that break forum rules cannot be left unchecked. If you sincerely have a problem with our handling of our forum, we suggest you seek comfort elsewhere.

So where does one draw the line between flaming and personal attacks?

A good portion of the premium members and posters with high post counts/ friends with the moderators have huge leeway, while newer posters have ZERO slack.

Regarding flaming, a lot of premium members take great pride in personal attacks, that go well beyond flaming.
I understand that yes, noobs should search before making topics that have been asked for the zillionth time, however, even in normal, relevent topics, a good portion of the older members/premies/high post counts go beyond flaming.

Again, it's your forum, so I read only the threads that I like, and you can moderate whatever way you so feel.
It's kinda like, I'm in your house, so I have to obey your rules.
That is perfectly acceptable.



However, to deny that mods are biased towards Premies/older members/high post counts, I feel, is quite untrue.

The best example is Chmercer

He ripped people off for T-shirts. Excuse after excuse, and he's banned from the marketplace.
However, he STILL IS on the forum. You can check his last visit here on Zilvia, it is Oct 17th, 2007, WELL beyond later than when he ripped people off.

The mods are biased towards him because they have a relationship with him. Also, Chmercers REAL LIFE friends have made ZERO attempt to right this wrong.

If fact, they made a mockery of things, adding insult to injury to people who were ripped off by Chmercer
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=161583


If it was any other noob poster, or someone disliked, they would of been permabanned, no questions asked.

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

I'm actually getting irritated at this sort of cockamamie BS theorizing.

All users were banned for rule violations, not for differences of opinion.

free speech?

it seems like the rules have been changing a lot lately

[wrapmeup2005]

Not to step on anyone's toes but Im sure that they will be stepped on but, how many people that say "support the troops" actually do a single thing to support them. To me, most everyone goes on with there daily life because thats how life goes, the first person we think about is "numero uno." Honestly, troops think about themselves as well, they aren't fighting for our freedom for free with no source of contribution to them. They enlist because of a signing bonus, free college, the benefits that you get after. I understand that you guys are fighting for "our" country, but there isn't any real reason to fight, and there isn't a reason to fight to be "free." I think America has been "free" since we fought the British.

My views may be taken lightly or harshly by those that are serving right now as I write this but the last thing I would want to do is go through what they are dealing with. I couldn't imagine having a huge lifestyle change like you did and I kudos that but at the same time I couldn't imagine fighting for America, or any country because I do care about numero uno....and so does everybody else!

Our troops are living a hard life in a definite third world country but so are a lot of people that don't even have the choice. We don't say, "Support the Ethiopians" for living how they are and for dying slow deaths from malnutrition or disease. We don't congradulate the people who put their lives on the line for the most dangerous jobs that make Americans happy (the men and helicopter pilots that hang high voltage cable, aircraft pilots, etc., even everyday people getting in a car or getting out of bed run the risk of dying.)

Im just saying, I would like to say I support the troops, but they are getting something out of it just as well. I know the situation sucks but they sign on knowing that.