New Garrett GTX2867r

[galant_x]

thats with 256 poncams, so nothing aggressiv. i also got the VCT still equiped since its a road car.

[Tom N]

Originally Posted by Member

The wide band in the car reads between 10.8-11.5 under boost. And it was definitely spinning the tires. The Dyno room smelled like rubber and it picked up 30lb/ft just from tightening the straps. It built 200lb/ft in 15mph that's a pretty big jump. And I am running 255's with .5 degree of camber in the rear. It spins 3rd from a roll no problem on the street so I totally understand it spinning on the Dyno. And I know the HP seems low for the boost level however 400+ tq is pretty impressive for a T2 flanged SR.

I make 460/450 on a T2 flanged 20g at 25psi on 93 and meth injection and don't spin the tires on the dyno. Only time I see tires spin on a dyno is if the tires are bald or way to small.

[Member]

Those are some very impressive numbers. But your turbo is bigger than a GTX2867 meaning it most likely makes torque later after the Dyno roller is already up to speed. I believe the main reason it spins is because of the very quick onset of torque. I was there and witnessed it happening. And I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to the thread topic.

[Tom N]

The relevance is the tq you are making isn't the reason the wheels are spinning on the dyno.
If it was me I would address that. My tq hits at 4300rpm, not sure when yours hits as your graph.
But with your compression and that much boost on E85 you should be making more hp. You need to dial your timing in better. If your happy wight hat power level that's cool too but you could turn the boost down a little and still make that much power if you worked on the tune more.

[Member]

My torque comes on hard at 3800 on the street. And if I lower the boost I will lose torque. I'm not as concerned with the overall power number as much as I am the power curve and how early it comes on. Your exhaust side is much larger. Which is probably why you are able to make that power. But as far as timing I have nothing to base off of. I went from 91 octane at 20psi and 11 degrees of timing to E85 and roughly 28psi and just kept adding timing until I felt it was making reasonable power. All of the tuning has been done on the street. All I did was throw the car on the Dyno and do pulls. And my point was you are comparing a GTX2867 to a 20g which are very different.

[Dboyizmlg]

^ you should deff be much higher in whp with that much boost and E85.

My friends car made 415whp at 21psi boost! (On a dynapack dyno, and E85).
This was on a gt2871r .64 A/R!

There is some thing wrong with your set up...

[Tom N]

Originally Posted by Member

My torque comes on hard at 3800 on the street. And if I lower the boost I will lose torque. I'm not as concerned with the overall power number as much as I am the power curve and how early it comes on. Your exhaust side is much larger. Which is probably why you are able to make that power. But as far as timing I have nothing to base off of. I went from 91 octane at 20psi and 11 degrees of timing to E85 and roughly 28psi and just kept adding timing until I felt it was making reasonable power. All of the tuning has been done on the street. All I did was throw the car on the Dyno and do pulls. And my point was you are comparing a GTX2867 to a 20g which are very different.

I was not trying to compare the turbos I was just saying I make more tq on a fast hitting small T2 turbo with out spinning on the dyno. If you don't care about dyno tuning then it doesn't matter but if you do then there s a reason your spinning on the dyno and it's not the tq in itself.
There is also not a very big difference in these two turbos at all.
20g is a little 52mm turbo. It is not a lot bigger by any means.

[Member]

The 20g turbine wheel is much larger. And honestly it feels like imy car makes more power than the graph shows. I have no idea what boost it was making on the Dyno. I dynoed the car for free through a friend at a tech school locally and was only allowed to watch. They didn't watch boost pressure while it was on the Dyno so I have no idea if it ever made full boost. And they didn't log anything beside the AFR. My tires are brand new 255/35r18 Nankang NS20's not the best tire in the world but they don't chunk and they are cheap. The suspension is stock with adjustable upper arms and my car isn't excessively low. I got an alignment today and the rear camber is at 1 degree. On the street from 65mph it breaks traction in third just rolling on the throttle. I have run a 12.6 at 115 with a 2871 in the same car on pump gas at 18 psi. The car is way faster now. I raced a C6 with bolt ons that trapped 118 in the 1/4 and it wasn't even close. I pulled 2-3 cars in third gear after it hooked up. So I don't know if the Dyno correction was set weird or if was the fact that it was spinning but I thought it should be somewhere between 440-450whp. I don't know what timing I should be running at 28-29psi but 19 degrees sure seemed like a big jump from 11 degrees at 20 psi.

I was also just reading that with any other correction setting than SAE the power would have been roughly 4% more. Around 438whp 425wtq.

[Member]

Update. Got on the Dyno again I don't believe the car was building full boost last time on the Dynojet. I was able to get on a Mustang Dyno and got the car to hold 25 psi. After a short spike to 28 which caused a jump in torque. But either way I was impressed by the numbers. I have also switched to BC 264 cams since last time. 458whp 479wtq

[N20]

Let me know if anyone here has a Tomei sr22g engine for sale!

[fatduece]

^Yea that's NOT gonna happen. We're too busy spending our last dollars making our ear lobes looser than a wizards sleeve. Not to mention vape juice, gotta stock up on it.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well, as luck my have it, I may have a very nice, very solid GTX2867R setup with OEM manifold and Tial MVS wastegate for sale here shortly... Setup made 418whp on pump gas.

[Jorgs_7]

^ What did you have for exact modifications?

Im targeting 400 WHP on 93 octane (Yes, stock internals). There will be very apporiate tuning done, by me.

I have:

GTX2867R
OEM manifold
Tial 38mm External gate
850cc injectors
AEM v2
cosworth HG
ARP head studs
Blitz EBC
Blitz BOV

Planning to purchase:

JWT S4 cams
large FMIC with 2.5" Piping
Z32 MAF

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by Jorgs_7

^ What did you have for exact modifications?

You'll need at least pistons, or it wont last very long lol, ask me how I know.

CP Pistons 8.5:1
Manley Rods
Apex Head Gasket
ARP hardware
GTX2867R .64
Tial external gate
OEM manifold (codyace style)
740cc injectors
Z32 maf
S3 cams
JWT Ecu

[Jorgs_7]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

You'll need at least pistons, or it wont last very long lol, ask me how I know.

CP Pistons 8.5:1
Manley Rods
Apex Head Gasket
ARP hardware
GTX2867R .64
Tial external gate
OEM manifold (codyace style)
740cc injectors
Z32 maf
S3 cams
JWT Ecu

Even though JWT is very reputable, Id never use a Pre-programmed ECU. Im sure the tune wasnt perfect, possibly causing detonation, which took out your pistons.

When you say, Codyace style, do you mean honed/extrude process done to the factory manifold? That process is fantastic, but not cheap.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea. Mine isnt honed though. Just the factory manifold with wastegate.

I've had an SR for 10 years, 4 of them actually lol, and I can say with experience that no matter the tune the pistons get a little shakey at 400+ hp. Guys have done it, hell I did it for almost 6 months, with 7 track days, even with meth/water injection, but eventually the pistons just cant take it. Good luck with your car man! I hope it works out! I just drive my stuff hard, competition does that though.

[Jorgs_7]

After being in the game that long, I dont doubt you on the piston thing.

I appreciate it!

As far as particulars to your set up:

What size cold/hot side piping were you running for your FMIC?
What PSI were you running when you made 419 WHP?
Do you have an opinion on the JWT S3/S4 cam arguement?

Thanks man.

(Not trying to hi-jack the thread, but hope other people can benefit off the 400 WHP .64 housing T2 details)

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Jorgs_7

Even though JWT is very reputable, Id never use a Pre-programmed ECU. Im sure the tune wasnt perfect, possibly causing detonation, which took out your pistons.

When you say, Codyace style, do you mean honed/extrude process done to the factory manifold? That process is fantastic, but not cheap.

Generic tunes are conservative fueling and timing wise to accomodate user problems, so detting is no concern;performance and fuel economy are.

400WHP on stock S pistons ... they will get destroyed ringlands.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Jorgs_7

Even though JWT is very reputable, Id never use a Pre-programmed ECU. Im sure the tune wasnt perfect, possibly causing detonation, which took out your pistons.

Funny you mention this. Enthalpy and I recently had a long discussion and this came up, iirc he did say that most of the Japanese tunes (JWT, mines, etc...) all contain far too much ignition advance for use here in Florida, at least. We reasoned that it was the availability of 98 octane fuel, and the colder temperatures there in Japan, that allow for such timing numbers.

Originally Posted by Croustibat

400WHP on stock S pistons ... they will get destroyed ringlands.

This car, I tuned on 93 years ago, stock bottom end redtop. Still together after 35,000 miles more fwiw. I think if you have a good timing map (Ill say it again, about 9* btdc at this boost level for mid-range) It seems to last alot longer. I know exactly what you mean though, about the OEM ringlands, they are certainly a weak point; One small mistake and they are gone. It is not recommended to use the stock piston at this power level due to the narrow margin for error.

[Jorgs_7]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

Generic tunes are conservative fueling and timing wise to accomodate user problems, so detting is no concern;performance and fuel economy are.

400WHP on stock S pistons ... they will get destroyed ringlands.

Are you aware of how ignition timing, air/fuel ratio, detonation and EGTs are related?

If you think you're getting a target AFR and timing curve for your elevation, location, and exact modifications from a mail order ECU, then you're uneducated.

[cotbu]

Rule number 1 in tuning club, is you don't speak about timing map!

Sent from a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Funny you mention this. Enthalpy and I recently had a long discussion and this came up, iirc he did say that most of the Japanese tunes (JWT, mines, etc...) all contain far too much ignition advance for use here in Florida, at least. We reasoned that it was the availability of 98 octane fuel, and the colder temperatures there in Japan, that allow for such timing numbers.



This car, I tuned on 93 years ago, stock bottom end redtop. Still together after 35,000 miles more fwiw. I think if you have a good timing map (Ill say it again, about 9* btdc at this boost level for mid-range) It seems to last alot longer. I know exactly what you mean though, about the OEM ringlands, they are certainly a weak point; One small mistake and they are gone. It is not recommended to use the stock piston at this power level due to the narrow margin for error.

JWT is american, theyre based in san diego. I have their tunes and they are far too conservative. At stock fuel pressure and no boost leaks, my afr's were in the 10's and sometimes below that.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by Jorgs_7

After being in the game that long, I dont doubt you on the piston thing.

I appreciate it!

As far as particulars to your set up:

What size cold/hot side piping were you running for your FMIC?
What PSI were you running when you made 419 WHP?
Do you have an opinion on the JWT S3/S4 cam arguement?

Thanks man.

(Not trying to hi-jack the thread, but hope other people can benefit off the 400 WHP .64 housing T2 details)

Hot pipe = 2.25"
Intercooler: 2.5"
Cold pipe: 2.75"
Inlet pipe: 3"

22psi with meth/water

I've only had S3, never had S4.

[codyace]

In the same regard, 'custom tunes' can often hide problems, and or make the best of the worst. It's a dual edged sword. IMO the rom based tuneds (Jim Wolf, and ENthalpy) require the base user's car to be in the best shape, with no leaks (boost nor anything else) with sensors typically in the best condition in order for them to run well. I mean I can't even count amount of cars that I've 'fixed' over the years with a 'junk JWT' or 'shit enthalpy' tune, with a consult cable or a boost leak tester.

It's remarkable how so far off some cars are, that people will overlook to quickly blame the tune, and that's not far IMO as those same people are the ones who blast JWT and enthalpy online, never to report back it was their lack of oversight on a coupler, or inability to time the cams, that caused all the issue.

[codyace]

Cam wise is a two fold answer as well.


i still think on a 'street car' that the S3 maybe has better manners. More midrange, right where you'd be driving it. For a competition/competitive car, where you're in the 5500 rpm range+ all the time, the S4 really is the btter cam with much more top end. I'm my case with the 4.6 final drive on track, it's right in the sweet spot at all times.

WIth it all considered though, that's not to say you couldn't street drive the S4 cam...they are still mild...but with a moderate boost, canyon car, I'd almost argue the S3 is better (with a 28RS at that) where a track car, or a 'racer' the gt2871r and gtx2867r and the S4 cam is the hot ticket

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Jorgs_7

(Not trying to hi-jack the thread, but hope other people can benefit off the 400 WHP .64 housing T2 details)

There is an entire thread of how to pull it off, called the 2871r owners thread. The thing is that thread has been so cluttered for yeras that it's hard to say where it's all gone.

The basic cookbook recipie of success however is:

JWT or Enthalpy ECU
GT2871r or GTX2867r (in .64 housing for both IMO is the better setup)
JWT S3 or S4 cams
OEM turbo manifold with Honing
Greddy (or freddy, sigh) Intake Manifold
Quality Intercooler (Read: Greddy RSPL)
Pump gas/20 psi.

Now engine wise we can forver debate what is best. I think we all can agree (know better) than trusting that setup on a stock engine. Sure will 1 or 2 guys never have an issue? Sure. I went a while until popping an injector gromet up and leaning it out. The safe bet though is to put a set of forged (CP) pistons (stock rods IMO are totally fine for sub 500whp) and a Quality (Apexi, Cosworth) headgasket and some ARP or Mazworx head studs.


It's a simple setup for sure, a little costly, but nothing more than blowing up stock junk twice anymore. WHen I set the car up, SR parts weren't the easiest to find, so you had to make it last.

My engine is still around, and I'd argue sees THE MOST road race time of anyone on Zilvia that can still drive their junk on the street(ok there may be 1 or maybe 2 that have more) and I've never had any issue. Quality parts will last.


The biggest issue IMO of the setup is everyone wants to skip a corner, or try something different...which is fine, but then people begin to forget that these setups can make awesome power...just not with an ISIS 2871r, or small cams, or with similar 'not the same' type builds. The setup I have works, and has worked for almost a decade...yet nothing has come out to really impress me enough to change the entire deal over. Sure VVL heads and that technology is aweseome, but I'm not spinning to 9500 rpm, and i only have a T2 turbo. If I was reallyy going to make a full out max setup I'd have a GTX30, and a wild VVL, but that's not streetable fun to me...

[fatduece]

Is vvl swap worth the money on a simple setup like the gtx2867r? Or money doesnt justify whatever the gains maybe?

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Is vvl swap worth the money on a simple setup like the gtx2867r? Or money doesnt justify whatever the gains maybe?

To take full advantage of a VVL setup you really need to switch to a medium frame turbo or larger. T3 footprint with some thing that can take the CFM's a VE head can flow.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by codyace

There is an entire thread of how to pull it off, called the 2871r owners thread. The thing is that thread has been so cluttered for yeras that it's hard to say where it's all gone.

The basic cookbook recipie of success however is:

JWT or Enthalpy ECU
GT2871r or GTX2867r (in .64 housing for both IMO is the better setup)
JWT S3 or S4 cams
OEM turbo manifold with Honing
Greddy (or freddy, sigh) Intake Manifold
Quality Intercooler (Read: Greddy RSPL)
Pump gas/20 psi.

Now engine wise we can forver debate what is best. I think we all can agree (know better) than trusting that setup on a stock engine. Sure will 1 or 2 guys never have an issue? Sure. I went a while until popping an injector gromet up and leaning it out. The safe bet though is to put a set of forged (CP) pistons (stock rods IMO are totally fine for sub 500whp) and a Quality (Apexi, Cosworth) headgasket and some ARP or Mazworx head studs.


It's a simple setup for sure, a little costly, but nothing more than blowing up stock junk twice anymore. WHen I set the car up, SR parts weren't the easiest to find, so you had to make it last.

My engine is still around, and I'd argue sees THE MOST road race time of anyone on Zilvia that can still drive their junk on the street(ok there may be 1 or maybe 2 that have more) and I've never had any issue. Quality parts will last.


The biggest issue IMO of the setup is everyone wants to skip a corner, or try something different...which is fine, but then people begin to forget that these setups can make awesome power...just not with an ISIS 2871r, or small cams, or with similar 'not the same' type builds. The setup I have works, and has worked for almost a decade...yet nothing has come out to really impress me enough to change the entire deal over. Sure VVL heads and that technology is aweseome, but I'm not spinning to 9500 rpm, and i only have a T2 turbo. If I was reallyy going to make a full out max setup I'd have a GTX30, and a wild VVL, but that's not streetable fun to me...

With Cody's recipe for success, I cleanly made 420whp on a .64 housing, on pump gas, and beat the hammered shit out of it fairly regularly. Save for my weird hesitation issue that I cannot diagnose.

[Dboyizmlg]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

With Cody's recipe for success, I cleanly made 420whp on a .64 housing, on pump gas, and beat the hammered shit out of it fairly regularly. Save for my weird hesitation issue that I cannot diagnose.

That was with pump gas, AND Meth injection right?