Drift entrance techniques/form

[di-devol]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

...Stock is 6?? Wow.. lol either my car is fucked or the alignment rack I took it to is fucked because I have stock tension rods and the machine read 8.4* on my car for both sides.

Yea, stock is really low compared to what most people run. I think some people just run higher caster so the wheels don't rub.

Originally Posted by koukistylejdm

as you can see from that pic the trailing wheel isnt really important...
i did the whole 3rd gear bank with the wheel like that and never noticed until i stopped drifting (broken coilover)

LOL. I know what the leading tire and trailer tire do. I was stating that someone said the "leading tire" was the one following.

[cantdrift11]

so looking for some input guys.. still learning here. Lexus IS300, mostly suspension, coilovers, lsd, rear suspension arms, front suspension still stock, upgraded clutch and flywheel. Car weighed in at 3100 and thats with mostly gutted interior and welded cage, mostly (headers, intake, exhaust) stock na 2jzge which is about 200whp.
Camber in front -3.5 and rear close to 0 camber.. i recently crashed the passenger side and replaced all the arms and never did a proper alignment prior to this track day. Thoughts?

[VinceDude]

Originally Posted by cantdrift11

so looking for some input guys.. still learning here. Lexus IS300, mostly suspension, coilovers, lsd, rear suspension arms, front suspension still stock, upgraded clutch and flywheel. Car weighed in at 3100 and thats with mostly gutted interior and welded cage, mostly (headers, intake, exhaust) stock na 2jzge which is about 200whp.
Camber in front -3.5 and rear close to 0 camber.. i recently crashed the passenger side and replaced all the arms and never did a proper alignment prior to this track day. Thoughts?

MOOOOOORE Power!!!! Lol looking good though.

[KA240SX808]

What's your tire setup?
Brand/Model, psi, etc.

[cantdrift11]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

What's your tire setup?
Brand/Model, psi, etc.

I got new tires for this track day, federals 595's, 215/45/17 all around. 32 psi front and 50 psi in rear. First I started at 45 in rear wasn't enough when the track started heating up.

First thing my buddy says after a couple runs, "you know what I'm gonna say, more power dude!"

[iamtheyi]

Originally Posted by cantdrift11

I got new tires for this track day, federals 595's, 215/45/17 all around. 32 psi front and 50 psi in rear. First I started at 45 in rear wasn't enough when the track started heating up.

First thing my buddy says after a couple runs, "you know what I'm gonna say, more power dude!"

federals run super wide. Going another brand like achilles would help alleviate some of your power issues.

[KA240SX808]

Are you clutch kicking at all? I don't think I hear any.
Also I saw you under steer a tad during the RH transition, that would automatically tell me to get better tires up front.
That will help with keeping the rear end sliding as a quick jerk of the wheel will help keep the traction broken if the front grabs.
A sliding/under steering front gives your rear tires a chance to grip.
Also try 55psi in the rear, I've done 55psi on my 595's in the same size no problem.

[cantdrift11]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

Are you clutch kicking at all? I don't think I hear any.
Also I saw you under steer a tad during the RH transition, that would automatically tell me to get better tires up front.
That will help with keeping the rear end sliding as a quick jerk of the wheel will help keep the traction broken if the front grabs.
A sliding/under steering front gives your rear tires a chance to grip.
Also try 55psi in the rear, I've done 55psi on my 595's in the same size no problem.

definitely clutch kicking here

[KA240SX808]

I only heard you kick it maybe 3 times, no?
Looks like you need to treat your car like a SOHC KA.
More clutch kicks and shallow angle and if need be bigger circles to keep RPM's up and angles shallow.
Might not look as crazy with the shallow angles but at least you'll get it down without looking/sounding like your struggling.
Also your entry could use a slight bit more speed and earlier entry then use the eBrake to trim speed.

[jasoncanseeoh]

Superrrrrrrrrrrrrr noob question. I don't have trouble drifting, in my eyes at least. I feel as if I drift just fine.
Although, I have been on the quest for more grip. They say for drifting to dial in as much grip as possible. Does that mean to set your rear dampening to full soft?
Cause when I try to drift with my rear end on full soft, it feels as if I don't have enough power to keep the wheels spinning. Or even if I try to reduce tire pressure for more grip, it seems as if my power levels decrease. I'm pushing 325whp/360wtq btw on 225/40/18 tires.

Is that where adding more power comes into play?

When do you know if it's a tire size issue or if it's a car setup issue?

I've got a lot of questions about grip, but if anyone can answer the above, that would be awesome!

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by jasoncanseeoh

Superrrrrrrrrrrrrr noob question. I don't have trouble drifting, in my eyes at least. I feel as if I drift just fine.
Although, I have been on the quest for more grip. They say for drifting to dial in as much grip as possible. Does that mean to set your rear dampening to full soft?
Cause when I try to drift with my rear end on full soft, it feels as if I don't have enough power to keep the wheels spinning. Or even if I try to reduce tire pressure for more grip, it seems as if my power levels decrease. I'm pushing 325whp/360wtq btw on 225/40/18 tires.

Is that where adding more power comes into play?

When do you know if it's a tire size issue or if it's a car setup issue?

I've got a lot of questions about grip, but if anyone can answer the above, that would be awesome!

Definitely not full soft! Try to click it up a tad and tune from there. Your power range is fi.e, you are just so soft/loose, your car isn't going to slide right, in lamens terms.

Brings up an interesting topic that should probably be discussed more, however.

What do most people think are ideal dampening settings on coilovers for drifting?

For example: I have 32 way adjustability coilovers with 9/7 spring rates. I have mine at 16 clicks all around. Most people would hate this setup, but I have gotten use to it. The car these are on has a stock KA.

*just for insight, I have had plenty of s-chassis and plenty of coilovers. I just thought this discussion would be interesting and maybe give some beginners tips on where to start.

For reference, my 16 all around tends to let me go a bit wide, and certainly makes initiating interesting. Certainly not recommended for most, especially beginners. Again though, I myself have gotten use to it and enjoy the setup, though I will likely tune it up soon (car isn't driven too much outside of drifting and is currently down and undergoing some work).

[KA240SX808]

Originally Posted by jasoncanseeoh

Superrrrrrrrrrrrrr noob question. I don't have trouble drifting, in my eyes at least. I feel as if I drift just fine.
Although, I have been on the quest for more grip. They say for drifting to dial in as much grip as possible. Does that mean to set your rear dampening to full soft?
Cause when I try to drift with my rear end on full soft, it feels as if I don't have enough power to keep the wheels spinning. Or even if I try to reduce tire pressure for more grip, it seems as if my power levels decrease. I'm pushing 325whp/360wtq btw on 225/40/18 tires.

Is that where adding more power comes into play?

When do you know if it's a tire size issue or if it's a car setup issue?

I've got a lot of questions about grip, but if anyone can answer the above, that would be awesome!

Your probably going too far of an extreme, small changes are noticeable.
Drop your Tire maybe 2psi at a time.
Rear Damping drop it 2 clicks at a time also.

Going to 30psi tire Pressure and full soft rear damping is like going straight to drag specs. Just bring it down slowly till you have the grip you want or your having too hard of a time sliding it. Then at that point you may need to adjust your style a little bit to keep the rear end out.

[iamtheyi]

Stock KA, softer in the front. Stiffer in the rear. Helps rear swing out and front grip.

stock sr, basically same as KA.

Built either, start stiffening up front and soften up rear. Keeps front end planted while the rear is swinging and keeps it from swaying too much; the rear can now grip more so you can utilize the new found power.

[Tedskiii]

My favorite thread ! I enjoy reading through this when I can. I can't wait till my car is driveable again.

Oh and ^^ Hi Scott !

[Tedskiii]

Is there a baseline/ideal alignment to start off with when figuring out whats best for you?

[KA240SX808]

Start of with Stock or you can use my Baseline:

Front Caster: 6.80 - 7.00* (Need Tension Rods or Caster Adj. Plates | More Caster = More Self Steer)
Front Toe: 0
Front Camber 1.75 - 2.25* (Need Camber Bolts or Plates | I normally start with 2.00*)

Rear Toe: 0
Rear Camber: 1.00* (Rear has LOTS of Camber gain, don't need much Static)

[Tedskiii]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

Start of with Stock or you can use my Baseline:

Front Caster: 6.80 - 7.00* (Need Tension Rods or Caster Adj. Plates | More Caster = More Self Steer)
Front Toe: 0
Front Camber 1.75 - 2.25* (Need Camber Bolts or Plates | I normally start with 2.00*)

Rear Toe: 0
Rear Camber: 1.00* (Rear has LOTS of Camber gain, don't need much Static)

Does wheel size play a big role with alignment aswell? I plan on running my 14 Se's, not too sure about tire size, still new to the game.

[xilovelsdx]

At my second event, really dont have a clue of what im doing lol.

[KA240SX808]

No. You can play with stuff later.

[DialedLife]

ka240sx808 your last few posts have been very helpful, thank you

[KA240SX808]

No problem.
The biggest mistakes that new drifters make are upgrading without knowing how to use what they got.
Can't slide, needs moar powah. And now they can't control it.
Learn to use all you've got to the fullest before upgrading.

[Tedskiii]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

No problem.
The biggest mistakes that new drifters make are upgrading without knowing how to use what they got.
Can't slide, needs moar powah. And now they can't control it.
Learn to use all you've got to the fullest before upgrading.

Will do man ! When i finish up my car you gotta take me to some spots again ! I'm down for tips/learning.

[KA240SX808]

Originally Posted by DialedLife

ka240sx808 your last few posts have been very helpful, thank you

Don't thank me, thank the guys in here, I learned from them.

Originally Posted by Tedskiii

Will do man ! When i finish up my car you gotta take me to some spots again ! I'm down for tips/learning.

Can do. But I advise you not post any videos. Atleast not on here. You know why.

[starfire240]

First off I'd like to say that im a beginner and by reading this thread I've already learned some techniques and i can't wait to go try out. having said that, I'm currently rocking a J30 diff (doesn't lock as well as it should) megan streets and stock KA. the way I've been kicking out is the same way that i used to when i was still on open diff. same line. slight feint and clutch kick and throttle modulation all the way through until its time to switch back I'm off throttle and until it wants to hook then clutch kick while countersteering. It works most of the time lol.

My question is: How much does the entry line and style change when switching to a welded diff?

[tauntdevil]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

No problem.
The biggest mistakes that new drifters make are upgrading without knowing how to use what they got.
Can't slide, needs moar powah. And now they can't control it.
Learn to use all you've got to the fullest before upgrading.

This is an issue I see a lot when trying to teach at the tracks out here.

Originally Posted by starfire240

First off I'd like to say that im a beginner and by reading this thread I've already learned some techniques and i can't wait to go try out. having said that, I'm currently rocking a J30 diff (doesn't lock as well as it should) megan streets and stock KA. the way I've been kicking out is the same way that i used to when i was still on open diff. same line. slight feint and clutch kick and throttle modulation all the way through until its time to switch back I'm off throttle and until it wants to hook then clutch kick while countersteering. It works most of the time lol.

My question is: How much does the entry line and style change when switching to a welded diff?

In my personal opinion, when I get into a car with an open diff vs a locked diff, my line changes almost opposite positions as open diff is more difficult to drift longer corners. That is just my opinion however.

[starfire240]

Originally Posted by tauntdevil

This is an issue I see a lot when trying to teach at the tracks out here.


In my personal opinion, when I get into a car with an open diff vs a locked diff, my line changes almost opposite positions as open diff is more difficult to drift longer corners. That is just my opinion however.

And I guess that brings out the issue with the j30s or any vlsd diff.. It locks when it feels like it and one can never be 100% sure that the reaction is gonna be exactly the same in every entry

[KA240SX808]

Originally Posted by starfire240

And I guess that brings out the issue with the j30s or any vlsd diff.. It locks when it feels like it and one can never be 100% sure that the reaction is gonna be exactly the same in every entry

I would rather shim it then put a welded.

[koukistylejdm]

i have to say as far as drifting goes. my entry technique changed to the new levels of power, speed and handling...

i used to rely on clutch kick at the beginning and now its always with the hand brake

[starfire240]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

I would rather shim it then put a welded.

I'm about to do that to mine. Well see how it goes.

[Perfect Balance]

For people trying to learn to drift:

Couple degrees of negative camber in front, or a lot if you know how to get a car to turn in on a tiny contact patch, since the camber will help you out at full lock, 0 to -1 or so in the rear, 0 toe all around, caster 6-8 degrees in front, as long as it's even on both sides, it won't make a huge difference when you've got this much. If something isn't working then adjust your driving style, not the car. People always say "s13s tend to understeer" and I've never had that issue with stock suspension and stock open diff, aftermarket coilovers on stock arms, then got an lsd, then aftermarket arms on eyeball alignment, running staggered with 195s or 205s in the front and 215s out back, never messed with the dampers, never removed my sway bars, and have had absolutely no issues with understeer or front end grip. My only guess is people try to manhandle the cars around corners and it doesn't work.

Learn about weight transfer, learn your car. Don't try and force your car to do what you want, learn how the car behaves and use it to your advantage, as far as timing on steering and throttle, so the car moves in it's own natural way and you're just guiding it along. So often I see "driving style" thrown around, when at the end of the day the car is a machine and is subject to physics the same as any other car. If your "driving style" disregards the dynamics of the car's handling, you're going to have trouble regardless of what you're trying to do.